Alternative to current 'step over fence'

[Laertes 10]

Make it like Call of Duty, come to an obstacle and if you can climb over it will show a symbol. If you cant, tough luck :D

That's never a good start to a sentence.

[ladlon 10]

Hehehe... Ya, that's a great way to get your comment flamed!

No, I personally wouldn't want console-like graphic icons popping up all the time (..although, to be fair, Arma2 DOES have icons popping up for things like doors).

The system that is used now is fine.... but I'm simply suggesting that the key be one that you could hold down as you approach an obstical, so that once you 'hit' it, you climb over it... rather than stopping and trying to find the right spot to stand, then hitting it. Just would be more fluid.

[SteveJA 12]

Id like to see another way, a faster way of gettin over the fence, too many times ive had this senirio (bad spell) happen

Walking along the side house keeping a look out, left right left then suddenly a enemy car appears next thing he opens up "crack crack bang" as i start into a sprint along the house with bullets pinging here and there i hit the corner of the house and turn only to see my NEMISIS "Shit NO" "a fence, im done for sure" and sure enough, i run up to the fence, stop, do my nice litle siluette, and get shot to peices, NICEE

Surely a "leap" or "dive option would go down well?

[rok 0]

The system that is used now is fine.... but I'm simply suggesting that the key be one that you could hold down as you approach an obstical, so that once you 'hit' it, you climb over it... rather than stopping and trying to find the right spot to stand, then hitting it. Just would be more fluid.

I like this hold-button-pressed-while-approaching-obstacle suggestion.

[ladlon 10]

Ya, it's pretty much what we have already (so it won't piss off those that like the current system), but can be held down and triggers when you hit the fence, as opposed to triggering when you press the key, even if you aren't at a fence. Should be a harmless change to those who don't have a problem with the current way, and a helpful change to those who do.

[CarlGustaffa 4]

As long as the current system isn't removed, I'd be happy with anything. There is a high risk of a new system turning bad, buggy, or into something we simply don't like. Having the old system there leave us with a backup we're used to.

[Chumba 10]

Here's a thought.... I fully understand why some people would not want an automatic climb if you hit a fence (...since, I'm assuming, they worry that you might accidentally climb when running to a fence).

Fair enough... But how about this.... Rather than it doing it automatically.. and rather than you having to stand in the right spot and press V... You instead have a 'modifier' button/key (of sorts) that you can hold down. If held down, it does the auto climb if you collide with a fence. Without it pressed, it acts like the current Arma2 system. That way, if you WANT to be hopping fluently over each fence, you simply hold down the key (much like you hold down shift to walk), and each time you hit a fence, you hop over it. Let go, and the auto hop stops.

Spot on!! - I'm with you 200% on this idea (thumbsup) - I don't understand why there could be any disagreement - as others have said above: those who don't want it don't have to use it. So all that's left now is for BI to actually do it for us - chop chop guys! :D

Edited May 1, 2010 by Chumba

[PacX 10]

I'm in for the game Brink's SMART system-look-a-like (In a realistic fashion of course).

[dissaifer 10]

Context based actions!! Give that man a drink!

[ladlon 10]

Come to think of it, I'd also like to see that kind of modifier thing I mentioned for ladders as well, as currently ladder climbing is a bit wonky (getting the climb icon to appear, etc). Just have a toggle or a key to hold down, and when you collide with a ladder or a fence, it automatically starts climbing. if you don't want that, you just hit toggle again, or don't hold down the modifier key (whichever method ends up being used). Again, choice...

[polar bear 10]

I put it on spacebar. Easier to hit when you want to and more like other games I play where spacebar=jump. Climb over is not jump but it's conceptually similar, you do it in the same situations where you'd jump in other games. You're less likely to hit spacebar by accident in my experience. I have command on 'C' which is also easy to hit.

There is one extra key here too, we don't really need both a stand up and a climb over key. One key is enough: If you are already standing pressing it means climb over. If you are not standing pressing it means stand up. If you are crouched and you want to climb over hit it twice. The game should allow you to assign both stand up and climb over to the same key and figure out based on context which you mean.

I agree with having a "climb ladder" key, which could be the same as the climb over key. It would start you climbing any nearby ladder rather than having to fiddle around trying to get that action menu to appear.

In general I hate that action menu, it's always adding/deleting items dynamically while I'm trying to click something and invariably I click the wrong item.

Edited September 19, 2010 by Polar Bear

[ladlon 10]

You're right, you could combine the stand up and climb over/climb ladder key... although not if you are doing the 'modifier' button idea I was thinking of too (where you hold it down as you are running, and that'll make you climb whatever you collide with), as that would not let you run crouched up to a ladder or fence.

Ya, although I love the expandablity/flexibility of the menu system they have, it DOES get very frustrating in the heat of battle, when the item you're desperately trying to click on suddenly shifts location, and you end up clicking something different.

Arma2 is brilliant, but the frequent 'mis-commands' (either by missing on the menu, or the situation suddenly changing the context of your command, or the AI interpreting your intentions as something different, etc) can really make it seriously frustrating.

I don't know HOW many times I've tried to issue a move command on the map, and inadventantly ordered my guys to enter a car that happens to be where I clicked (but not visible on the map).

[dmarkwick 261]

A problem with the modifier/contextual action idea is the same problem that exists with the current contextual action implementation - that of confused actions. If there's two or more close by actions, you might and up selecting (or having it auto-select) an inappropriate action. Say there's an ammo box placed next to a low wall, you run at it to rearm and instead end up standing on the wrong side of the wall :)

It happens a lot with the contextual action system, I select some squad members and try to get them to Stop, but something drifts across the center of my vision and I accidentally select Move To or Attack or some other undesired action.

[ladlon 10]

Ya, for sure. I was just thinking of this:

Hold down a key (say, shift, just for the sake of example) while running. If you hit a wall, you automatically climb over it (as if you hit v), so you don't have to stop, and hit v.

Ditto for ladders... Hold down a (different) key, if you run into a ladder, you climb.

As another user suggested, in this particular case, you COULD combine those two (ex. holding shift makes you climb if you hit a ladder, or climb over if you hit a fence, etc). Can't really see a conflict happening there.

But, ya, combining it further (with things like re-supply) would be messy.... but also unnecessary, as things like re-supply aren't really as finky as climbing ladders can be.

I guess 'open door/gate' could be lumped in with the other two as well, without conflict... Trying to get the gate to show the open icon can be seriously frustrating... second only to those damn ladders.

[Baff1 0]

Frankly, I do not think there should be any key for this at all.

It should just happen as you walk towards it. The climb over animation should just kick in.

At worst it should be available with a quick double tap of the walk forward button.

Wherever possible key presses that do not need to be made, should not be. Animations should just kick in at the appropriate moment.

This game already uses far mire keys than needs be. One less would be a boon.

The same should be true for ladders, if you are bumping into it and running forward, you should just start climbing.

If you are really worried about standing under ladders and not climbing, then a double tap of the run forward button should do it.

Loathe as I am to say it, take a tip out of the console gamers handbook. Automate it so that intuative actions don't need unintuative key presses but just occour fluidly as they do in real life..

Edited September 29, 2010 by Baff1

[Ulanthorn 10]

Frankly, I do not think there should be any key for this at all.

It should just happen as you walk towards it. The climb over animation should just kick in.

At worst it should be available with a quick double tap of the walk forward button.

Wherever possible key presses that do not need to be made, should not be. Animations should just kick in at the appropriate moment.

This game already uses far mire keys than needs be. One less would be a boon.

The same should be true for ladders, if you are bumping into it and running forward, you should just start climbing.

If you are really worried about standing under ladders and not climbing, then a double tap of the run forward button should do it.

Loathe as I am to say it, take a tip out of the console gamers handbook. Automate it so that intuative actions don't need unintuative key presses but just occour fluidly as they do in real life..

No it is good as it is...I dont want to be forced to step over the wall I use as cover just because the engine thinks im to near or forced to use every ladder i go by in a House.

Some people actual like to have control over their Avatars and do not like the automatization of other games where you dont stick to a body.

[Baff1 0]

Np mate it really isn't good as it is.

It is enormously cumbersome.

For being behind low walls, it is easy for the auto climb only to work in a standing position. So that isn't an issue.

While I agree that I don't want to be forced to climb over or up ladders when I am standing near one, when I am running into one, bumping my nose against it repeatedly, clearly I am not seeking cover but attempting to use or get past them.

And I am thinking to myself...how many times in the game am I trying to take cover behind a low garden fence, or a ladder compared to how many times I am attempting to jump over it or climb it.

I just can't ever remember actually taking cover under a ladder in this game. I remember fiddling about trying to climb up one a lot. But never trying to take cover at the base of one.

Nor can I ever remember standing up behind a low wall running into it beacuse I was trying to use it for cover.

The circumstance you describe almost never happens if ever and the cumbersome climb over/mount ladder part happens almost every game.

So while it may be quite annoying to find yourself climbing a ladder when you did not wish to, it wouldn't take any longer to disentangle yourself from the ladder on those rare occasions it occoured that in would to activate climb ladder mode does currently.

So while when the game got it wrong, it would still be getting it just as wrong, the amount of times the wrong action ws taken would be greatyl reduced in number. It would occour less often.

Most people in the game, most times, when they are standing at the bottom of ladder want to go up it. So if anything, you could have an action menu to "not go up it".

And that would make the game much more fluid to play while still preserving the exact same amount of avatar controlability options.

As for being in control, sometimes less is more.

I played Batman Arkham Asylum the other day.

Instead of having a run button a jump button and swing button, it just had one button. The computer new when to apply the relavent movement on it's own. If it was on flat ground the button made him run, if there was a jump he jumped, a ladder he climbed, if he was hanging from a ledge he climbed up it...

... and the beauty of it all was that he could now run acroos a flat jump a gap, catch hold of the cliff face on the otherside and pull himself up and then continue running all fluidly. All without pause.

He wasn't doing less complex manouvers he was doing combo manouvers with ease.

I had more control, not less.

All the actions I wanted to do occoured, but they occoured fluidly without my having to tell them to.

Much as when I am jumping over a low fence in real life I do not have to hesitate or fumble around to do so. I don't make conscious efforts to do these things in real life, I do them all auomatically.

It frees my mind to focus on other more important elements of the game.... like who is shooting at me and where can I hide!

I see where you are coming from of course, but I still feel that fluidity of movement and interface is one of this games major stumbling blocks that makes gameplay clunky and overcomplicated.

I wish the programmers would take a long hard look at all the key presses they could take out or as with the gunsight toggles, switch for a system of key presses using the existing keys your fingers are already on.

Edited September 30, 2010 by Baff1