Close Quarter Combat is impossible in Arma2

[santafee 10]

Well, like the topic says, look around a corner, flash, dead.

I know pretty well that this is no Shooter at all, but i hate the fact that you can only have firefight at distance. I play at secound difficulty lvl and close combat is just...frustrating.

There are 2 possibilitys.

1. Make the AI Stupid, so they dont react anymore.

2. Fight only on Distance

[maturin 12]

I don't know what you're talking about. The AI's reflexes are much worse than human ones in most situations. Unless they are lying prone and staring at where you emerge, you can always check your corners.

The AI run around too much in close quarters. They are careless and can't shoot through windows. They rarely use grenades or open doors.

Keeping your team alive in a congested urban environment is near impossible, but any experienced player should be able to grab an MP5 and beat the MOUT training course, for example.

[reconteam 19]

I do wish there was more of an opportunity for close range firefights. Seems like the AI is a bit too responsive sometimes.

[Aelin 10]

They are careless and can't shoot through windows. .

they can:bounce3:

[instagoat 133]

Actually, the AI is coming pretty close to being glorious in CQC.

I think the reaction times of the medium and low range AI, particularily against Tanks or other Vehicles, and the exploitation of cover are still inadequate, but on the whole this is the best procedural, free-form AI there is, and cutting it back would be like taking away the smile from Da Vinci´s Mona Lisa.

The best way to survive is to listen to what your AI teammates say, and make sure to always stay on the move, always stay covered by a teammate nearby and use smoke and handgrenades wherever possible. Several types of obstacles can also be penetrated by gunfire, such as those flimsy wooden fences.

I think the best way of working around this isn´t dumbing down the AI, but instead training a little more. I built a CQC shooting range in the editor with walls and the red popup targets to train my reaction times with, and one version where I replaced the popup targets with actual enemies. Such can be helpful.

Cheers

[maturin 12]

they can:bounce3:

Well, certain windows. I am utterly ignored on the second stories of Chernogorsk.

I think it's sort of silly that the AI will go prone to shoot at targets emerging just feet in front of them. They should go down on one knee by way of ducking, but lying down gives you enough time to kill them every time.

[jw custom 56]

Well sometimes AI do make some impressive shots. I find it easier to stay alive in urban cqb than in firefights at distance in the open.

My biggest beef with AI besides they are next to impossible to lead in cities is that they in some situations are too aware, like when they pinpoint you through heavy vegitation.

I would really love to see AI's tracking/aiming skills effected by blocked view.

Well, certain windows. I am utterly ignored on the second stories of Chernogorsk.

I have managed to get shot through 2 windows, right through the house :p

Edited November 24, 2009 by JW Custom

[santafee 10]

There you got one of the most annoying things. AI can just look trough vegetation, you as player are the dumbass. Hello? this is really one of the most stupid and unbalanced things, they can see you,you not them.

Also i love the vegetation and dont want to use addons like slapcutter.

The AI is actually overpowered in to many situations, cause of bugs.

[maturin 12]

The AI don't see through bushes. That's a myth.

They do pick you out unfairly at times, or track you for a few seconds when you're out of sight, but those are glitches.

Problems with long range detection through forest canopy or occasionally even ground are more noticeable.

[wolf[173rd] 10]

The AI don't see through bushes. That's a myth.

What would do you live on?

[Scrub 0]

In the 60295 beta, I had many an AI snapshot me from around a corner. Had a few hold, peeking around the next corner as I ran around the other on that side of the building. Blammo! Is noticeably improved. I've been blasted in a second floor window. Not often, I think they have trouble 'seeing' up close at that angle.

Edit: AI see through bushes only as you do. A bit here, and a bit there, a little guesswork and you get hit. I've done it to AI, why can't they do it back?

[jw custom 56]

Edit: AI see through bushes only as you do. A bit here, and a bit there, a little guesswork and you get hit. I've done it to AI, why can't they do it back?

I'm not talking about just bushes, i'm talking about heavy vegitation where there's absolutely no visability. Don't tell they are that good at guessing and guessing right all the time, yeah sure i've been lucky a few times.

Tried many many times getting shot and then before going into the seagull the camera shows someone proning 100m away behind heavy vegitation. Placing myself on that spot i can't see a damn thing.

[maturin 12]

;1497288']What would do you live on?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46xyrRMiCOE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrfTQXXOxMI&feature=related

This one.

I have no doubt that the AI sees through knee-length grass (the beta patches may have changed this with the grass layer), but getting shot by omniscient AI is not really a problem I have. Or maybe when I'm hiding behind skinny saplings in a dense forest they're hitting me left and right, but at that point I expect it. The biggest problem with detection is that they know your exact location the moment you fire two shots.

Edited November 25, 2009 by maturin

[MadPro119 10]

I was recently thinking the same thing, I have been trying to use the editor to set up a good close- quarters mission, very hard to do! AI like you said kill before you get a glimpse of a corner! IMO.

[Whiskey_Tango 10]

up close like point blank they seem pretty hesitant to react...i came around a corner stupidly without checking because i thought the area was clear and i ran smack into an enemy, spray and prayed him but he didnt even react to my presence, i have had several other situations similar to this

high angle second story windows they are pretty oblivious to although i have been fired at and hit while in a second story window from an enemy about 10' out shooting nearly vertical at me

[max power 21]

They do not react instantaneously at point blank. They are actually quite slow to react.

[Hachiman 10]

I use the Random House Patrol script and have been very impressed with the enemy AI's close quarters combat capabilities, it's a real adrenaline rush assaulting multi-storey buildings occupied by ten or more enemy infantry.

I'll post a video compliation of some very intense close quarters combat gameplay when I get a chance, hopefully some time tonight.

[steele6 0]

does the AI's sight get blocked by smoke grenades? (Im getting arma 2 soon. )

[johncage 30]

vegetation isn't properly modeled, that's why. shitty vegetation should correspond to nearly transparent cover.

heavy vegetation should correspond to fully obscure cover.

vegetation in between should be opaque. as in ai has random chance at seeing you depending on how loud you're being.

the problem is...the vegetation types are so many, it's hard to determine which should be which. that's why they come up with procedural vegetation/cover units. it hardly works though.

total revamp of vegetation system ala ofp is welcome.

[Colt45_GTO 10]

how do you guys know that the AI aint got the settings turned right down, you know cutting vegitation detail to the min? .....

hahahaha i bet no one thought of that :lol:

[vilas 474]

The AI don't see through bushes. That's a myth.

???

do you know models structure ? do you have knoledge to say it ?

do you know how AI see and not see in this game engine ?

cause i know

and if in model lod called "viewgeometry" there is nothing or something is broken - AI don't see such object

if you will do wall model, simply cubic and you will screw viewgeo lod - AI will see you and will be aiming (if cannot fire because of "firegeo" lod)

schrubs, grass do NOT have probably "visual geo" LODs , so... AI see player

for PLAYER the only LOD that he notice is:

- visual resolution LODs

- shadow lod (on objects, self shadows)

- you fill geometry LOD when you colide with vehicle but you not see it

i turned grass on my PC, cause for me it is "single player problem maker" and only screenshot usage

[Zipper5 74]

It's hardly impossible. If it was, you wouldn't have such a large PvP following that the game actually has. It has it's own system of doing things and some of these guys are ridiculously good at it. It's just no like every other twitch-shooter with incredibly responsive movement that it feels like you're floating.

[EricM 0]

some of these guys are ridiculously good at it

I tried a CTF map once and I got trashed by a ratio of 15/1 !!

I was trying to be all sneaky and all, but when I saw someone, by the time I raised my gun, 3 bullets already passed through my skull... I don't know how they shoot so fast... but it clearly shows that it is possible.

As for the AI seeing though vegetation, grass clutter and bushes are two different things. I never felt that the AI could see me behind bushes. They can hear you though...

[vilas 474]

Well, like the topic says, look around a corner, flash, dead.

I know pretty well that this is no Shooter at all, but i hate the fact that you can only have firefight at distance. I play at secound difficulty lvl and close combat is just...frustrating.

There are 2 possibilitys.

1. Make the AI Stupid, so they dont react anymore.

2. Fight only on Distance

hi:)

yes, it is not shooter, you know , all games had close quaters fights and OFP brought us new type of battlefield in PC

so Arma2 as grandson of OFP remained like this

concerning AI and etc.

yes, there are problems from time to time, but i think they are not so-AI problems as may be model problems

most of people here are "players" , "users"

some people are good coders - they looking for a problem in something they suppose

i am modeler and i want to clarify something, that people may not know:

every model in game has:

- visual LODs - you see them on your screen

- geometry LOD - responsible for collisions (vehicle vs. vehicle, building, whatever)

- fire geometry - AI see it when it wants to fire, player fires and destroys object when fires at "fire geo" LOD

- viewgeometry - AI see it as objects - in fact it is what AI see, it is responsible for possibility to hide before AI etc.

conclusion:

if for example building LOD visible for YOU (player) is bigger than shape of VIEW GEO visible by AI

for example on corners - AI will notice you

why?

cause you see corner - AI see his part, not yours

example:

i can do model of wall, i will do geometry lod - you cannot cross this wall, you see wall

but i will not (or i will screw) do view geo lod and i will not do fire geo lod

you wanna know what will happen ??

AI will notice and kill you THROUGH such wall

it has nothing to AI skills - it has to objects

of course i am not coder, i believe more people can answer issues :

is AI messed up by multiple walk sounds from multiple soldiers in city

is AI messed up with multiple targets

i just wanted to say what i know - to give you more explanation from modeler side of view

sometimes not AI is broken, but model is not as it should be

people sometimes look for problem reason , while they miss real problem

example (offtopic) once upon a time my PC was turning on after 2-3 resets, cause few times it was turning and down after BIOS

i looked for problems, i reinstalled system... nothing helped

my informatician in work(job) told me "man, plug and unplug all few times, there might be rusty stick somewhere"

yes, there was , after removing RAM and putting it in slot again - all works good for 2 years

simply there was little rust on connection, while i searched for : weak power unit (i even bought 500 W instead of 400), system errors (cause it was down after BIOS setup) :)

reason was rusty stick, not power unit, operating system , USB modem etc.

the same may be in some buildings

and i agree that CQB here are sometimes horrible

example:

i am sneaking with my team, few enemies in village, they shot dead half of my team, i was shot dead when i tried to get closer to enemy officer , he started to fire once i wanted to stand up (i was behind fence), how the hell he know i am crawling behind this fence 20 meters away

situation took place on village in Utes "Strelka"

or maybe IF AI noticed far away enemies - they are "following" them somehow ???

look at other example:

give people order "all target something" , look, it is moving through the city, it is behind buildings

what do your team ???

they FOLLOW aiming and turning like enemy unit run behind buildings

how the hell they know HOW to follow and aim him ???

place yourself with some units in team

put in editor some enemies , give them waypoint through the town

order yours to target one of enemies

look how they turn , so they "see" him trough all those buildings ???

Edited November 25, 2009 by vilas

[De_little_Bubi 1]

i don't think that Close Quarter Combat is'nt possible. if you do it right it's realy immersive.

don't expect to make a 1vsSquad fight for you but SquadVsSquad is realy nice and the AI is able to provide you a good fight.

i often places 4 squads into a town with guard and s&d waypoints and then just play the fight. Nice for the 10min pause :)