Zeus AI Combat Skills

[Mark XIII (DayZ) 18]

Great work so far mate, excellent addition to A2 :)

Thanks for sharing

[Alex72 1]

Wow update sounds awesome. :)

Thanks Protegimus!

[manzilla 1]

This is mind blowing. The AI are much improved. The enemy AI are a lot harder now and respond very well to fights. Big thanks from a dedicated SP fan.

I am getting an error now though at the main menu at start up.

Warning Message: No entry 'bin\config.bin/CfgWeapons/M16_base/Single.displayName'.

It's also in the .rpt file along with a ton of other similar errors. I'm not sure if this has to do with your Mod but I'm gonna look into it. I've never seen it before this morning. Maybe a conflict?

EDIT:

After a few minutes of testing it seems the Vop sound mod is the culprit when used with this Mod. Can anyone else confirm this? I've never seen this before.

Edited November 30, 2009 by Manzilla

[Helmut_AUT 0]

Would this add CPU load and thus reduce framerate in any noticeable way? Generally the AI in .588 beta seems much improved, but I'm tempted by this mod.

[froggyluv 2136]

Mods great.

As it is, I wouldn't play without it. Glad you and SLX are working towards compatability - had one of the most immersive fights last night while using your two mods +WarFX, while playing the old Arma1 campaign...

...yes, thats right, Arma1 campaign :eek:

[kroky 1]

I like your mod and its good you are making it compatible with SLX.

- Although please make the AI taking weapons from dead bodies a separate addon. Im using VFAI and it does the job better, since with VFAI you can switch this ability ingame on and off. This makes AI more controllable.

[Protegimus 0]

...

I am getting an error now though at the main menu at start up.

Warning Message: No entry 'bin\config.bin/CfgWeapons/M16_base/Single.displayName'.

...

EDIT:

After a few minutes of testing it seems the Vop sound mod is the culprit when used with this Mod. Can anyone else confirm this? I've never seen this before.

Glad you're enjoying it Manzilla, shows just how good BIS AI really can be!

VopSound is good work, but there are still a few errors in the config and that is what is causing the problem. You have a couple of courses of action, you can ignore it if it's not causing any other issues, try loading the mod's in a different order, e.g. -mod=beta;@VopSound;@zcommon

or

-mod=beta;@zcommon;@VopSound

to see if that helps, or finally if you don't use the engagement .pbo:

zeu_cfg_core_ai_engagement.pbo

that will avoid it.

Would this add CPU load and thus reduce framerate in any noticeable way? Generally the AI in .588 beta seems much improved, but I'm tempted by this mod.

No noticeable difference in CPU usage to my knowledge. The mod does not involve any scripting, all functionality is native to the game it is purely config work that provides the improvements - so hopefully you'll go ahead and give it a try!

I like your mod and its good you are making it compatible with SLX.

- Although please make the AI taking weapons from dead bodies a separate addon. Im using VFAI and it does the job better, since with VFAI you can switch this ability ingame on and off. This makes AI more controllable.

Thanks Kroky.

AI taking weapons is BIS ArmA 2 functionality, so it's not possible to disable it! It is more likely to happen under certain conditions with Zeus AI due to improved AI performance. I'm sure VFAI will work alongside Zeus AI just fine though.

Seems to have broken the Helo landing in SP mission 1. Haven't seen any other problems yet (latest releease).

Nice mod otherwise :)

BangTail, maybe you are using the latest ArmA 2 beta build 60588?

Have a look here on the beta thread, then let me know if you think there is still a problem and provide a bit more information so I can check it.

[bangtail 0]

BangTail, maybe you are using the latest ArmA 2 beta build 60588?

Have a look here on the beta thread, then let me know if you think there is still a problem and provide a bit more information so I can check it.

Apologies mate - After further testing, it is not your mod and I have asked that the original post be deleted.

Great mod mate, thanks :)

[kroky 1]

@Protegimus

Hmm,

Thats the first time I hear default ArmA2 AI has the ability to pick up weapons by themselves. Are you sure?

Besides this, after a quick test I have to say the AI is behaving strange...i.e. some of the soldiers would not pick up weapons and they die a lot quicker then before. (Get less wounded).

But I will test some more.

[Protegimus 0]

@Protegimus

Hmm,

Thats the first time I hear default ArmA2 AI has the ability to pick up weapons by themselves. Are you sure?

Aye, circumstances this was observed under:

Multiplayer dedicated server

Soft Shoe v9 mission by Warhammer using BIS medic module

human player injured, bleeding out

enemy AI from close quarters took SMAW launcher and ammunition from the human player!

There are other reports of this behaviour on the forum too.

Besides this, after a quick test I have to say the AI is behaving strange...i.e. some of the soldiers would not pick up weapons and they die a lot quicker then before. (Get less wounded).

But I will test some more.

Please try downloading the latest version linked from my web site and compare your test results - I've spent many hours running through my list of tests and everything looks good, so hope you experience it as I do.

[Solus 1]

Looking good Protegimus! If you've got time, maybe try playing with the courage value to see if AIs will flee more often when appropriate.

Kroky: The AI accuracy seemed to be a strong factor on firefight lethality, which is why my values were a bit lower than with Zeus AI. I haven't gotten to test much myself, but try adjusting the AI accuracy in your .ArmA2Profile file to what Protegimus recommends which might get the AI working more correctly. I tested my AI skill values with the regular A2Profile AI precision, so with lower A2Profile AI precision it might work right. Hmm, although I wonder if people reporting the SLX AI as too inaccurate had the A2Profile precision down as well as the lower SLX AI skill addon, which would make them too inaccurate.

Protegimus, what do you think of the differences? Would having a lower AI skill and higher A2Profile precision work as well? What are the default A2Profile values set to when going into the settings and changing the AI difficulty levels? Would it be better to try using those as a base so players can change the AI skill in game rather than manually editing the file? Although those would also affect the AI skill setting, would there be a way to make the default A2Profile settings work better with the other CfgAIskill settings? This all sounds like a lot of reworking things though.

Take care.

[Protegimus 0]

Looking good Protegimus! If you've got time, maybe try playing with the courage value to see if AIs will flee more often when appropriate.

Hi and thanks Solus, good idea will do.

Kroky: The AI accuracy...

I completely agree, the profile precision settings have a dramatic effect on AI shooting accuracy and although more subtle, skill does have noticeable effect on AI performance.

There was some discussion earlier in the thread about increasing precision to provide a greater challenge when playing in SP, so the flexibility is there for different individual preferences and game types.

The recommended settings for the mod should provide a very good starting point for SP and excellent results for MP & dedicated servers - one of the design goals was to make firefights more prolonged, with a lot more ammunition expended by the AI before their fire became effective and caused casualties - the default precision of the default AI was in no way realistic.

Low precision does not mean less of a challenge, the improved performance of the AI more than makes up for it.

Protegimus, what do you think of the differences...

We've obviously been thinking along the same lines as that was pretty much my starting point after planning & discussion amongst the Zeus guys.

After some early tests it quickly became obvious that some of the cfgAISkill values are rather sensitive to change - tiny adjustments having significant consequences during gameplay, not always for the better.

Based on that I don't think it is practical to accommodate the default profile values with cfgAISkill adjustments, they are just too far off.

I'm happy to discuss what I've observed from different settings in detail if it will help you or anyone else working on improving the AI.

Also, although having to set the profile values manually is not ideal, it does provide the best results (or certainly the experience I intended) and is pretty straightforward. I could certainly elaborate on the instructions if this is required.

[TRexian 0]

One note on the AI skills.

DMarkwick and I did some testing of an evolutionary model for AI skills. The results I got seem to show a hierarchy in how the skills are related. I'd be happy to share the limited results I got, if anyone is interested.

Most importantly, however, it seems like the skills are very interlinked. That is, if the spot distance goes up, the accuracy goes up, too. But, if aim speed is also high, the accuracy is less important.

For an idea:

http://s26.photobucket.com/albums/c114/TRexian/JTD/testing/?action=view&current=Cycle4_chart2.jpg

Just throwing that out there. The work by you guys is awesome, regardless!

[fabrizio_t 58]

One note on the AI skills.

DMarkwick and I did some testing of an evolutionary model for AI skills. The results I got seem to show a hierarchy in how the skills are related. I'd be happy to share the limited results I got, if anyone is interested.

Most importantly, however, it seems like the skills are very interlinked. That is, if the spot distance goes up, the accuracy goes up, too. But, if aim speed is also high, the accuracy is less important.

For an idea:

http://s26.photobucket.com/albums/c114/TRexian/JTD/testing/?action=view&current=Cycle4_chart2.jpg

Just throwing that out there. The work by you guys is awesome, regardless!

Can you elaborate about how you extrapolated this data?

It looks interesting.

[TRexian 0]

With great frustration and heartache is the simple answer. :)

But seriously, here's the OFPEC thread I had going on it:

http://www.ofpec.com/forum/index.php?topic=34292.0

To make the long story short(er), though, here's how it worked.

An iteration consisted of 100 AI v. 100 (10 groups of 10 units per side) AI on the airfield at Utes, all spawned, roughly 300m apart. Each side given the opposite side's spawn point as the combat waypoint. Each individual unit started with a base .2 value for each skill, but each was skill had a random element (up or down). When either side was reduced to less than 10 units, the iteration (or generation, in evolutionary terms) was over. Of those units who had a "score" (that is, if they achieved a wounding or kill of an opponent), their skills were assessed, and averaged. The average of all scoring survivors then was used as the base value for the entire next generation.

So, the next successive generation would start with either a higher or lower base value, modified by a random amount, in each skill, depending on how the previous generation fared.

I've let it go to the wayside, as I can only get really 14 iterations out of A2. The 144-group cap is causing me problems. I can get around it by trying to re-use groups, but I've implemented it poorly, and after the 144 groups, it slows down VERY badly. I have one assessment that went to 26 iterations, but it was a problem because the groups were spawning incredibly slowly, and it was taking 30 mins. for all 100 to spawn, which literally meant that whatever the last group had, those were the numbers.

If you have OpenOffice, I can zip up the various assessments and upload them someplace. The init is pretty simple, actually, for the mission itself.

[fabrizio_t 58]

If you have OpenOffice, I can zip up the various assessments and upload them someplace. The init is pretty simple, actually, for the mission itself.

It would be useful if possible, thx!

Time to stop peeking around, good night to everybody :)

[Alex72 1]

Protegimus: I wonder if ZeusAI will be applied even if i use Kronzkys UPS scripts? Not that it feels it doesnt work, but i want to be sure. With the UPS script AI are placed out as you put them, but will then be initialized and copied plus placed out randomly. And i think UPS does something to the AI as well like improved flanking etc.

So if you know i would be very thankful. :)

[Inkompetent 0]

UPS is only a script suite that controls the AI's waypoints and related behaviour, coordinating several AI squads with eachother for improved combat effectiveness. It doesn't touch the configs at all, while configs is the core of the Zeus mod. Fully compatible together. Although the percieved result and/or combat effectiveness of the AI may vary with/without Zeus for UPS, since the way it moves and fights might or might not be optimal for the Zeus AI settings.

[Inkompetent 0]

Just read a post in another thread with something that the Zeus-team might want to have a look at: http://forums.bistudio.com/showpost.php?p=1502636&postcount=89

[Helmut_AUT 0]

Okay, I tested this mod, and I admit I'm not seeing that large a difference compared to standard beta 588.

I have four squads (two russian, two usmc) approach each other at Utes Airfield. With the mod, the engagement ranges seem to be slightly higher, but I'm not seeing any "magic" AI behaviour, not even a smoke grenade. Also for the vehicular MG I have parked behind us, the behaviour stays the same - pretty much engages always at about 300 or 400 meters.

Maybe my test is not well suited to this mod but what should I be seeing?

Arguable pre Beta 588, engaement ranges seemed much worse (much too short with default AI), so this mod would have made more sense. Right now the difference in a frontal engagement with rifle calibre weapons seems to be about 100m (350 for the mod, 250 without) which is both pretty okay and I guess a matter of taste. Because with the mod, units do engage earlier, but not necessarily kill earlier (lack of precision at 300+ meters for 5.56mm)

[manzilla 1]

Helmut,

I have yet to see the enemy AI launch any smoke. I've had some wicked fire sights but they just don't seem to throw frags or smoke. They sure don't pop em like the VF smoke grenade mod does.

[dmarkwick 261]

I don't think this addon introduces smoke grenade usage. I see it a lot, but that's from SLX and VFAI.

[KNac 10]

Helmut did you change the precission and skill values as suggested? Longer engangement ranges + lower precission/skill = more interesting and longer firefights.

[manzilla 1]

I don't think this addon introduces smoke grenade usage. I see it a lot, but that's from SLX and VFAI.

From the ReadMe:

- AI use smoke and frag. Be aware of your enemy's ability to throw frags!

I guess I did see one toss one, it was a red one though.

[Helmut_AUT 0]

I did set the Precision and Skill variables in my A2 config.

What was pretty cool just now - not sure from this mod or default Arma2 - was that I got shot at by a tank from certainly more than 1500 meters. There's a road near Chenargorsk which runs on a hillside and can be fired at from the valley below, and I learned the hard way that the AI down there DOES care.

Also the AI on foot is pretty aggressive now. It's overall a good gameplay balance, I just can't say for sure what part of it is the mod and what part are the latest beta changes. But it is TONS better than plain 1.04.