Dragon Rising has been released

[vilas 473]

Flash Thunder - 360 degrees turn ?

180 degrees

whole wheel has 360, so if you say someone turned 360- it means he is in the same position

when turns 180 degrees - he is on oposite side

[Bulldogs 10]

Heh... Just flashed last action hero

[Second 0]

This is the only point where I disagree with you. Being a practical type, I think that developers shouldn't defend their game through debate against (often ignorant) players - to where it would look like they are trying to hold their position at all costs. Of course it's a good thing to explain how things work, but explaining that certain things cannot be made to be more appealing ("not to suck" as commonly defined) because they are out of range of current technology, be it engine or computing power, is pointless. The ones who are generally interested in the game but see it's flaws will research or ask questions here, maybe even give a reasonable suggestion how it could be made better. The people with aggressive attitude are best not to be fed. It may be a good tactic to support your product with pretty words, but it's a bad strategy - as (over)demonstrated by CM. Such praise is best to be left to people not associated with development, (Good wine needs no bush.) such as yourself. You are doing a great job. :D

Coding stuff and deep understandment of engine is naturally out of grasp of people. Things regarding game-play, equipment in game, campaigns, missions etc are totally another matter. It happens and it works. If they can't defend choices then it's clear that they have made bad choices. They don't need to ban people, they dont' need to defend their points of views to last straw. They don't have to reason with everyone. I can understand that because it's not practiced much in gaming industry then people might not even understand what i'm after. I'm not meaning PR-stunts which CM employed before the release, they have not discussed atall.

Example:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Secondbrooks

Why would random hedgerow be problem?

Because these things aren't generally on maps, or at least aren't accurately depicted. Therefore, trying to communicate the location becomes a significant problem when nobody has their eyes on it. Sure, it could be done BUT with all the problems artillery had getting their rounds on major targets which DID have eyes on them, how effective do you think blind firing would be?

Remember, getting a round close to a hedgerow isn't good enough. You have to get it pretty much on target or it won't do anything. Drop the rounds 10m on the wrong side of the hedgerow and you get no real positive effect. Drop them on the wrong side of a T intersection and you get no positive effect. Drop them too far away and you get no positive effect. Etc. And without eyes on the target itself you're throwing away any chance of correcting what is likely to be an off target barrage.

Quote:

Why should FO be conserned about friendly fire to his men if he's sole intention is to get artillery fire to somewhere 200-400 meters away from closest friendlies? We can't expect that hedgerow forms neat 20x100 meters boxes which are covering the map and just small scale platoon vs squad action going on while there's nothing more which would move around, can we?

But that's just it... a frontline commander has to deal with a chaotic arrangement of both friendly and enemy units because there are no neat rows to keep track of where everything is. So if I'm lobbing rounds without any idea, none what-so-ever, of where they are hitting... is that a good idea? No, of course it isn't.

But I think you're missing the point here. Why would I, as a lowly Captain of a Rifle Company, be calling in artillery on something that can't possibly cause me any harm at that point in time even if there is something there? It's a waste of resources and, when compounded by thousands of other lowly Captains, bogs down the entire war effort. I'm not kidding here

Plus, we're not talking about 200-400m away if you're unconcerned about friendly casualties. You'd probably have to fire at something 500-800m to be outside of the immediate danger area to your own troops. That's because even with spotted and adjusted fire you're talking about 300-500m possible range of error. Firing blind is obviously going to be even worse. At that range you're dropping rounds (possibly anyway) in another Battalion or Regiment's area of operations. That's never a good thing to do without explicit orders.

Such targets would, by definition, cease to be tactical. They would instead be strategic and/or operational. In that case there would be a TRP and assets set aside to hit that particular target. Which CM simulates quite nicely

Quote:

I don't know how close CMBO got them, but there was usually lots of possibilities which generated good changes to move large sized units around in haste manner. So there would have been basically more or less constant need to fire unspotted "barriers" with artillery, if FO doesn't happen to be in location where he can establish LOS into predicted route of enemy mass.

Oooo... as much as I appreciate the realism of my own products , I must caution you to NOT use CM as proof of concept in that way. In CM you are able to make massively unrealistic maneuver shifts at the drop of a dime due to the fact that it is a game and the units are all controlled by a single person. In real life such massive, unplanned maneuvers did not develop within the space of a 40 minute battle, therefore having artillery be that flexible just compounds the historical inaccuracies instead of helping to put realistic constraints on them.

Quote:

Personally i've used lot's of unspotted fire in CMx1 to make enemy bleed while it's just getting it's assault organized, or to make it's main body to halt while it's small point element is being engaged and slowly taken care of, be it hedgerows, forests, hills or anything. Be it defending, attacking, or meeting engaging.

In real life there would be TRPs for this, they wouldn't be fired on the fly.

Quote:

In CMSF i can't do this, i'd like to able to do it in CM:normandy.

Correct. The lack of TRPs in CM:SF has been a known limitation long before you guys ever saw the game

Steve

Yes this is "developer discussing with it's community"-thingy which i'm after, bit extreme example but "on the mark" at the same time. Developer didn't drop one-liner, but participated in discussion. I still don't accept his points of views totally, i happen to be the quoted one, but dropped that issue there as he clearly has great knowledge of this thing. At the same time developers have also alerted some things when/if proper proof and claims have been brought up in mature tone.

As for defending various aspects of ArmA: Yes i do believe i did a good job. Same stuff which i'm doing with OFDR. Crushing false information which has been spread around.

Edited February 1, 2010 by Second

[froggyluv 2130]

Pretty ironic that there's discussion of the need for better BI Dev/Customer dialogue in the DR thread :rolleyes:

If anyone needs to do some explaining for game design choices, it's CM hands-down.

We had some nice dialogue in the previous builds Beta thread regarding AI with the Devs, unfortunately the one we all liked didn't make it into 1.05, but I'm sure it will in time. The mere scale of this game would require a full time job as there are literally thousands of feature requests and what might be mighty important to me, would seem trivial to others who have their own laundry list brand of "what needs addressing".

Edited February 1, 2010 by froggyluv

[Flash Thunder 10]

Flash Thunder - 360 degrees turn ?

180 degrees

whole wheel has 360, so if you say someone turned 360- it means he is in the same position

when turns 180 degrees - he is on oposite side

Not my planet goon, theres 720 degrees where I live. :p

ARMA 2 >>>> Operation Cashpoint Dragon Crap 2.0

[Walker001 0]

Hey, have you heard the latest new from the OFP2 (OFP: DR i know) community?

Check this out:

http://www.ofp2.info/

Sorry if the news is already old. :)

[vilas 473]

do you remember soldiers opening doors and jumping off inside of and APC ?

damn CM liars, propotion using rendered movies... eh...

[vasmkd 12]

We all know Liarmasters always tell the truth *cough* *cough*

:rolleyes::D

[[GLT] Legislator 66]

So ofp2.info is closing down too? :eek: Codemasters ... look what have you done to this game!

Ah .. wait ... I'm getting a transmission from Codemasters HQ :D

YR71GnQ4CU4

Sorry for the video but it came first in my mind when reading the news of that page :D

do you remember soldiers opening doors and jumping off inside of and APC ?

damn CM liars, propotion using rendered movies... eh...

Oh yeah! It was very very nice to see! :eek: And the result ingame? *plop plop and away* At least that wasn't a very important feature.

[vasmkd 12]

Another one bites the dust

Oh if ur a CM fanboy it will be "It's all ok, this game has potential, when will SDK be released?" lol

[Mr.Wolf 10]

New templar's modification:

http://community.codemasters.com/forum/operation-flashpoint-dragon-rising-game-pc-113/405982-aimed-views-weapons-your-thoughts.html

nEsD8HW65Ds

[vilas 473]

wow, real rates of fire and ranges ???

i thought (ironic) there can be nothing more real than DR, hehehehe

[SwiftyBoy 0]

New templar's modification:

I guess you can polish a turd, then. Who knew?

[Schancky 10]

Hey, have you heard the latest new from the OFP2 (OFP: DR i know) community?

Check this out:

http://www.ofp2.info/

Sorry if the news is already old. :)

EPIC LOL! I knew this would happen.

ArmAII FTW!

[rasdenfasden 12]

New templar's modification:

http://community.codemasters.com/forum/operation-flashpoint-dragon-rising-game-pc-113/405982-aimed-views-weapons-your-thoughts.html

Wow, what an amazing total conversion! This totally does prove that arma 2 has nowhere near the modability of Dragon Rising!

durrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

[-RIP- Luhgnut 10]

yay new weapon mods, to run around the same empty island, with! I'm sure all four of DR fans out there are excited.

[Madus_Maximus 0]

I guess you can polish a turd, then. Who knew?

Sure you can, but you still end up covered in shit.

[max power 21]

Wow, what an amazing total conversion! This totally does prove that arma 2 has nowhere near the modability of Dragon Rising!

durrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

While some of the things that Templargfx says are, for lack of a better word, contestable, I don't think it's necessary to be so hostile to what he does. No one else is doing so much for that community. I think that we, in this community especially, should realize the value of modders.

Hey, have you heard the latest new from the OFP2 (OFP: DR i know) community?

Check this out:

http://www.ofp2.info/

Sorry if the news is already old. :)

Wow. Even the fans of OFP: DR hate OFP: DR.

Sure you can, but you still end up covered in shit.

Yeah, and don't look too far below the surface!

[sprayer_faust 0]

Coding stuff and deep understandment of engine is naturally out of grasp of people. Things regarding game-play, equipment in game, campaigns, missions etc are totally another matter. It happens and it works. If they can't defend choices then it's clear that they have made bad choices.

That is why I explicitly mentioned where I disagree with you. It was only one point. You were frustrated from battling opposition (not necessarily, but mostly ignorants) and were looking for support from dev-team.

I considered everything else a good point and know what you mean. BIS are checking the forums regularly, stating some facts here and there (progress, fixes, technical stuff), but that does not feel satisfactory enough. I believe people would like to hear their opinion about at least some suggestions or a more detailed explanation of what they are doing.

Oh well... If I had to choose, I would rather have a mean and skillful doctor than an exceptionally friendly and clumsy one. So as long as things work and the important stuff is being fixed I don't mind.

[Whiskey_Tango 10]

the front sight post still stays perfectly still...just because the rear sight is moving around doesn't make it better, it just looks tacky....cm must have spent a substantial amount of their ill gotten gains to have that guy so stuck on that abomination of a game..if that isnt the case then the guy is just a tool..

[Bulldogs 10]

It's another thing that personally I think is a bad design decision.

The weapons are all centered by the front of the weapon (actually, I think it's just in front of the weapon). And that center is pinned to the center of the screen. This way if you move the weapon, only the back of the weapon it will pivot with the back moving and the front solid. This is why with Templars mod to move the weapons down further, the barrel points further upward.

I'm guessing it was CM's way to counter act site in-corrections. Kinda like an opposite of Arma's floating point.

[-RIP- Luhgnut 10]

It's another thing that personally I think is a bad design decision.

The weapons are all centered by the front of the weapon (actually, I think it's just in front of the weapon). And that center is pinned to the center of the screen. This way if you move the weapon, only the back of the weapon it will pivot with the back moving and the front solid. This is why with Templars mod to move the weapons down further, the barrel points further upward.

I'm guessing it was CM's way to counter act site in-corrections. Kinda like an opposite of Arma's floating point.

Have a great idea for a mod for Dr.

Go to Staples and get one of those orange sticky dots you stick on shit. one of those little ones.

find the center of your screen and stick the dot. Download his new mod.

Now all your weapons will hit dead center.

Now give me $10.00 each for this.

[4 IN 1 0]

Luhgnut;1560781']Have a great idea for a mod for Dr.

Go to Staples and get one of those orange sticky dots you stick on shit. one of those little ones.

find the center of your screen and stick the dot. Download his new mod.

Now all your weapons will hit dead center.

Now give me $10.00 each for this.

LOL, this is what I did back in the CS day when I am learning how to "blind sniping":D

[-RIP- Luhgnut 10]

LOL, this is what I did back in the CS day when I am learning how to "blind sniping":D

ok, everybody send 4 IN 1 $10.00

[4 IN 1 0]

Nah, I'd hope those money goes to charity ;)