Dragon Rising has been released

[malkuth 0]

400m is not an unrealistic range for engagement.

Eth

Again this has been fixed now. I just tried it. With the patches at that range it takes the AI some time to find you. Before the patches if you killed an AI then the guy next to him would instantly know where you are and open up on you. And like you said at 400 meters its not hard for an AK to hit you.

But again this is fixed now and took a patch to do it. I just killed 5 Russians at 466 yards. Yes they opened up at me after the 3rd shot but I killed them. They almost hit me though heard the bullet wizz bye lol.

Edited October 9, 2009 by malkuth

[wolf[173rd] 10]

I played about thirty minutes. I threw it away.

[malkuth 0]

;1458462']I played about thirty minutes. I threw it away.

You could of called me, and saved me about 28 bucks before you threw it out.

[rübe 127]

Seeing how poor dragon rising is (not that I've played it (... or ever will)), I'm still glad, that it exists in exactly this form. It puts things nicely into perspective.

Thanks to this game, I now do realize that I was way too harsh with BIS regarding their product, ArmAII. While there are still lots of things lacking in ArmAII, it's already an outstanding game. I'm just too spoiled to realize it, that is, until dragon rising came around. What an eye-opener!

Btw. I do like Ohara's wine analogy afterall, although my first though was like `yeah sure, we all like banana-games, delivered totally broken and eventually patched to an acceptable level. :/` But let's face it. I've played cwc/resistance for years (incl. regular clanwars, oh boy). And I know I will play ArmAII and it's expansion for a long period as well... I can't stand all those other shooters anymore. Not after cwc, hehe. (and as a kid I've played them all from wolfenstein to heretic to hexen to doom and all those dull and silly run and gun games).

And that's exactly the point where Ohara's wine analogy becomes beautiful. ArmA is value. It's here for a long time and yes, it defenitely get's better every day. Maybe not in the pace I would like it to (did I already mention that I'm a spoiled sun of a gun?), and yeah, it's not the same as in cwc/resistance-times (good old, hehe), but that's ok.

And second, it's so funny how things turned out. Since dragon rising is such an utter fail, all it does is free (and lots! of) advertising for ArmAII (because it has to compare to it with such a brilliant name, haha, brilliant!). And it's not the cheap (pricey!) marketing bullshit that noone believes anyway (except maybee some dorks, that preorder games anyway, hehe, pardon), no, it's the good, mabye a little cocky but sincere userbase feedback and forum-/community-drivel, people telling each other to go and look out for ArmAII if they wanna experience the real deal, to play a good game, with +1500 AI or 100 guys on Berzerk or any coop mission, as they like.

^^ It's because I am not the only one, realizing how good ArmAII is afterall - in spite of its flaws. So IMHO dragon rising has put things back to a more rational point of view in the ArmAII user- and more general gamer-base. The users can see and appreciate again what ArmAII really is and what it all offers. Yeah, it had a miserable start - once more (bugs anyone?) - but you can't compare any game you play once for some days/weeks and then put away (because it's all smoke and mirrors) to a game you play for years(!) in this regard.

[-DirTyDeeDs--Ziggy- 0]

...

:rolleyes: very well said. I appreciate these comments, even if I dont share his ideas, I can empathize with them.

;)

[CarlGustaffa 4]

What's this bashing against the OFP DR FLIR system? Arma doesn't even have it yet, and we complain OFP to be unrealistic in that respect? It doesn't make sense to me. I thought also the one that in the future (with OA) will be texture based, just like in OFP DR. Does VBS2 simulate crossover times? Does it store heat during the day? If not, isn't also that system fake? Fake is what we live for. Realism can't be achieved in a million years. A real lighting system is based on bouncing photons around, but this is simplified greatly so that it can be simulated in a timely fashion.

I'll probably buy it anyways, despite all the negatives. I could really use a good laugh these days :D I'm probably going to enjoy some of it too. I'm beginning to realise know that the OFP DR engine suffers from some rather extreme limitations that completely overshadows the Arma2 engine, but...

What features of OFP DR would you like to see implemented in Arma2? In what areas does it excel?

I'll start with these, and I haven't even played the game yet:

1) It has a FLIR system. Not the best, but surely better than the current Arma2 FLIR system which isn't texture based at all. I know it will eventually come, but still, I think it had to be mentioned.

2) From the images I've seen, it appears to have projected holo sights, instead of textured ones. However, for me in Arma2, this only becomes a problem at crouched, when the animation system makes the sights misalign over time. Other than this bug, it wouldn't have had such an impact.

3) The voice system. Not only talking about how much more seamless the voices sound, but the fact that voices react properly to combat mode. Having AIs talk the way they do in Arma2 while in stealth completely breaks the feeling of being stealthy.

4) Explosion sounds. In Arma2 I think there is only a single explosion sound that covers everything, and mods are generally outlawed. Again, I haven't tested myself yet, so this is based on what I've read. Also, the one(s) in Arma2 is/are way too "oomphh". All the footage I've seen where high explosives are being used, the "boom" always have a really snappy sound to it, not a deep bassy sound. Especially at the safe distance of artillery impact zone.

5) Again, from what I've read, particles seem to have little effect on fps in OFP DR. If I order artillery smoke to screen a manouver in Arma2, my fps goes down the drain. Also,, the Arma2 artillery smoke texture has visible egdes (yuck) probably form its alpha channel or something.

6) Also, I'd like to see an attempt on the ring gui system. However, not dumbed down to console like in OFP DR, which makes it even worse than what we have in Arma2. But rather a hotkey modifyer which brings up a certain control gui, then a simple mouse movement to select the sector. In 3D applications I've used (compass menu), this quickly becomes a motoric skill, and not something you actually have to read onscreen what you are selecting. Enough keys for everything? :)

Any OFP DR features you would like to see in Arma2, or think is implemented better?

[bangtail 0]

What's this bashing against the OFP DR FLIR system? Arma doesn't even have it yet, and we complain OFP to be unrealistic in that respect? It doesn't make sense to me. I thought also the one that in the future (with OA) will be texture based, just like in OFP DR. Does VBS2 simulate crossover times? Does it store heat during the day? If not, isn't also that system fake? Fake is what we live for. Realism can't be achieved in a million years. A real lighting system is based on bouncing photons around, but this is simplified greatly so that it can be simulated in a timely fashion.

I'll probably buy it anyways, despite all the negatives. I could really use a good laugh these days :D I'm probably going to enjoy some of it too. I'm beginning to realise know that the OFP DR engine suffers from some rather extreme limitations that completely overshadows the Arma2 engine, but...

What features of OFP DR would you like to see implemented in Arma2? In what areas does it excel?

I'll start with these, and I haven't even played the game yet:

1) It has a FLIR system. Not the best, but surely better than the current Arma2 FLIR system which isn't texture based at all. I know it will eventually come, but still, I think it had to be mentioned.

2) From the images I've seen, it appears to have projected holo sights, instead of textured ones. However, for me in Arma2, this only becomes a problem at crouched, when the animation system makes the sights misalign over time. Other than this bug, it wouldn't have had such an impact.

3) The voice system. Not only talking about how much more seamless the voices sound, but the fact that voices react properly to combat mode. Having AIs talk the way they do in Arma2 while in stealth completely breaks the feeling of being stealthy.

4) Explosion sounds. In Arma2 I think there is only a single explosion sound that covers everything, and mods are generally outlawed. Again, I haven't tested myself yet, so this is based on what I've read. Also, the one(s) in Arma2 is/are way too "oomphh". All the footage I've seen where high explosives are being used, the "boom" always have a really snappy sound to it, not a deep bassy sound. Especially at the safe distance of artillery impact zone.

5) Again, from what I've read, particles seem to have little effect on fps in OFP DR. If I order artillery smoke to screen a manouver in Arma2, my fps goes down the drain. Also,, the Arma2 artillery smoke texture has visible egdes (yuck) probably form its alpha channel or something.

6) Also, I'd like to see an attempt on the ring gui system. However, not dumbed down to console like in OFP DR, which makes it even worse than what we have in Arma2. But rather a hotkey modifyer which brings up a certain control gui, then a simple mouse movement to select the sector. In 3D applications I've used (compass menu), this quickly becomes a motoric skill, and not something you actually have to read onscreen what you are selecting. Enough keys for everything? :)

Any OFP DR features you would like to see in Arma2, or think is implemented better?

I dont think anyone is debating the fact that DR has FLIR and A2 doesn't (for the moment).

The argument was with people who were saying DR's implementation of FLIR was highly realistic (which it is not).

Eth

[eble 3]

The FLIR in OFP-Dr is not that different to the player made addon for FLIR in Arma2

Arma - OA using heat for the FLIR not like the OFP-DR and Arma2 faked versions.

The latest video showed the heat on an apache helo while warming up, it goes from cold to hot engines :)

Having probably played about 10 hours of OFP-DR, I would be struggling to find anything to 'take' from it to add to arma2, I'm talking from a MP point of view as I can't stand the SP.

People on the CM forums are finishing the game campaign in 7 hours, thats not much of a storyline or gameplay.

MP in OFP-DR is a total shambles, unblievable it could be released as it is, COOP is good, but Team vs Team is terrible.

As I said before for console this will be a good game for COOP, but really this is a very sad console port with little regard to the PC player.

The root directory of the game is encoded so good luck trying to mod this game, I found the mission editor to be quite good, so I guess if I had to choose something, it would be a merging of the current Arma2/OFP-DR editors.

Unfortunately for people still interested in this game I'm not able to FRAPS the game to show off its dark side, the vehicle/helicopter driving/flight models are the worst I have used since the early 90's no joke, I have a vid of M1A1 hitting a rock and doing a 180 backflip, cars/trucks will hit random objects and just explode, hit a tree and you stop dead.

Imagine the game physics in Arma1 before the patch the one that stopped tanks flying in the air, thats what OFP-DR has at the moment.

Edited October 9, 2009 by Eble

[^Th0mas^ 10]

To be honest I was waiting for Dragon Rising, hoping that this would be better then ArmA II, but after testing this crap and wasting money on it im now back on the ArmA II forum!

[Bulldogs 10]

Yep, the point about the FLIR in DR is that it lights up entities. Meaning anything that is considered a player/AI or has a player/AI in it is light up like it has a heat signature. Real FLIR won't light up troops as they're bodies aren't hot enough, DR FLIR does, and it doesn't light them differently based on amount of heat, it just lights them up.

[Second 0]

What's retarded about the terrain in ArmA 2? I think it's great. Much better than OFP2 and definitely "different" than OFP2! Agreed about the not very bright AI, though. But it doesn't matter. Warfare is where ArmA 2 really shines and there your real enemies are players.

Sure-sure it's fine if one likes to play 400 meters sniper-shooting and pretend that one one lives if they get caught in open.

But in reality even open plains if they are not artificially leveled (golf courses and fields) will serve great deal of protection. In this both fails. Unlike original OFP, i might add. In where i could do short rushes from cover to cover and usually remain quite safe.

I've played Arma2 demo and every time when i get struck into firefight out side villages first thing i miss is cover. Next thing i do is to to try to desperately shoot my enemies down. There's little i can do about that, if i start to pull back i will get shot down, if i try to move at all i get shot down, all i can do is to hope that i'm faster and more accurate than enemy. In forests there are trees which offers little cover but not sufficent from any direction (even from front). There's no root growth, no rotting trunks, no rocks, no holes, nothing for concealment or cover, but trees which serves very poorly in that task.

Sure it looks nice. And it was desission which BIS made, they got rid of OFP's terrain detail system to get better streaming. But i loved more functional OFP's terrain if you had powerful machine for it. Bummer.

In OF:DR videos, the grass seem/might work somewhat as making firefights less sniper fests, instead it puts importance into high volumes of fire at distant targets as one can see them just briefly and then they they vanish into grass. So that might bring some healthy firefight-feel into game. Maybe i'll give it a try after all.

EDIT: Seems that Nemesis already posted that. ;)

Edited October 9, 2009 by Second

[AlphaIndia2 10]

Played DR PC version, not my cup of tea, felt more like a Ghost Recon franchise, gfx was ok "brown pallette" but not compared to AA2, landscape also felt more artifical like an Ghost Recon map, first mission to destroy a Early warning radar site was also more like a in Mercenaries 2, but Mercenaries 2 was made to be fun with humour, and also why to be inserted by Blackhawk approx 700m from main target and 300 m from closest enemy sentry post, and the guards didnt noticed the UH-60 passing by approx 90 m from their position? Anyway perhaps this game will attract folks that getting tired of Battlefield,, but it will probably fade away because of the lack of support of a community like the one commited to Arma2, and i also believe that lots of the people that had issues with Arma2 will not find salvation in DR unfortantly

[bangtail 0]

Sure-sure it's fine if one likes to play 400 meters sniper-shooting and pretend that one one lives if they get caught in open.

But in reality even open plains if they are not artificially leveled (golf courses and fields) will serve great deal of protection. In this both fails. Unlike original OFP, i might add. In where is could do short rushes from cover to cover.

I've played Arma2 demo and every time when i get struck into firefight out side villages first thing i miss is cover. Next thing i do is to to try to desperately shoot my enemies down. There's little i can do about that. In forests there are trees which offers little cover but not sufficent from any direction. There's no root growth, no rotting trunks, no rocks, no holes, nothing for concealment or cover, but trees which serves very poorly in that task.

Sure it looks nice.

I've never used the demo but there is TONS of natural cover in the full version.

Eth

[AlphaIndia2 10]

Also a strange thing in DR, felt like when walking and running was a silly walk, slow and lots head shaking,

[mr_centipede 31]

I think what second meant is the micro terrain like in OFP1 where you cranked up terrain details to very high.. I miss that feature too

[Second 0]

I think what second meant is the micro terrain like in OFP1 where you cranked up terrain details to very high.. I miss that feature too

Yup. You understood 100% right. :bounce3:

[sbsmac 0]

This reviewer doesn't have a clue about at makes A2 great.

Ethe, why don't you do some research before spouting your opinions? The guys at RPS have been huge proponents of OFP (the real one) and ArmA2 and have written extensively on them - search for Arma on the RPS site.

[Bulldogs 10]

The problem with the flashpoint terrain detail thing was that it looked like a bunch of waves (as it just tesselated the terrain) and in multiplayer if you turned down your terrain detail then you could shoot people through their terrain.

Anyways, back on topic...

[MehMan 0]

I've never used the demo but there is TONS of natural cover in the full version.

Eth

Except if you're out in the open. There are no dips and mounds in the ground.

[King Haggis 0]

Sure-sure it's fine if one likes to play 400 meters sniper-shooting and pretend that one one lives if they get caught in open.

But in reality even open plains if they are not artificially leveled (golf courses and fields) will serve great deal of protection. In this both fails. Unlike original OFP, i might add. In where i could do short rushes from cover to cover and usually remain quite safe.

I've played Arma2 demo and every time when i get struck into firefight out side villages first thing i miss is cover. Next thing i do is to to try to desperately shoot my enemies down. There's little i can do about that, if i start to pull back i will get shot down, if i try to move at all i get shot down, all i can do is to hope that i'm faster and more accurate than enemy. In forests there are trees which offers little cover but not sufficent from any direction (even from front). There's no root growth, no rotting trunks, no rocks, no holes, nothing for concealment or cover, but trees which serves very poorly in that task.

Sure it looks nice. And it was desission which BIS made, they got rid of OFP's terrain detail system to get better streaming. But i loved more functional OFP's terrain if you had powerful machine for it. Bummer.

In OF:DR videos, the grass seem/might work somewhat as making firefights less sniper fests, instead it puts importance into high volumes of fire at distant targets as one can see them just briefly and then they they vanish into grass. So that might bring some healthy firefight-feel into game. Maybe i'll give it a try after all.

EDIT: Seems that Nemesis already posted that. ;)

Awww, come on man! ArmA 2 has the best terrain engine ever. It provides the ultimate playground for every form of engagement. Only thing that could be better is the viewrange, but that's not ArmA's fault. ArmA 2 has the option for very high viewranges but modern PC's can't really handle it yet. It's like Ohara says with his ArmA 2 / wine comparison. In the near future very high viewranges are easily possible. Look at ArmA 1 now.

Don't go ArmA 2 terrain bashing, it's the most brilliant outdoor terrain engine I've ever seen with dense forests, rolling hills and lots of roads, villages and other details.

[PuFu 4600]

2) From the images I've seen, it appears to have projected holo sights, instead of textured ones. However, for me in Arma2, this only becomes a problem at crouched, when the animation system makes the sights misalign over time. Other than this bug, it wouldn't have had such an impact.

It doesn't, it does not support parallax effects. All the sights in DR are mearly a texture/image in the middle of the screen, not a 3d object

[4 IN 1 0]

I never find the micro terrain to be realistic as i have never lived on the moon before, I agreed, however, that they have placed too few things in forest and hill side

Edited October 9, 2009 by 4 IN 1

[Second 0]

Awww, come on man! ArmA 2 has the best terrain engine ever. It provides the ultimate playground for every form of engagement. Only thing that could be better is the viewrange, but that's not ArmA's fault. ArmA 2 has the option for very high viewranges but modern PC's can't really handle it yet. It's like Ohara says with his ArmA 2 / wine comparison. In the near future very high viewranges are easily possible. Look at ArmA 1 now.

Don't go ArmA 2 terrain bashing, it's the most brilliant outdoor terrain engine I've ever seen with dense forests, rolling hills and lots of roads, villages and other details.

Hmm...

[looks thru mirror at himself while trying to hypnotize himself]

I-Love-ArmA2-Terrain-As-I-Love-ArmA-Terrain-I-Love-ArmA2-Terrain-As-I-Love-ArmA-Terrain-I-Love-ArmA2-Terrain-As-I-Love-ArmA-Terrain-I-Love-ArmA2-Terrain-As-I-Love-ArmA-Terrain-I-Love-ArmA2-Terrain-As-I-Love-ArmA-Terrain-I-Love-ArmA2-Terrain-As-I-Love-ArmA-Terrain-I-Love-ArmA2-Terrain-As-I-Love-ArmA-Terrain-I-Love-ArmA2-Terrain-As-I-Love-ArmA-Terrain-I-Love-ArmA2-Terrain-As-I-Love-ArmA-Terrain-I-Love-ArmA2-Terrain-As-I-Love-ArmA-Terrain-I-Love-ArmA2-Terrain-As-I-Love-ArmA-Terrain-I-Love-ArmA2-Terrain-As-I-Love-ArmA-Terrain

AND-OFP-TERRAIN-SUCKS

[ends looking thru mirror at himself. Sighs as mark of relief as now he is sure that he will like ArmA2. He went thru fanboismication, or something like that]

Iiiii wiiiilllll liiiiiikkkkeeee AAAArrrrmmmmAAAAAA2222 noooooowwwww. Muuuuusssstttt haaaave braaaainz.

[goes and starts ArmA2 demo, plays thru one skirmish and quits because he still hates the terrain and the way firefights are to be played because of it]

Seem that i dislike it still. And changes are that OF:DR is just the same (that this wouldn't turn into pure ArmA2 bashing)-

EDIT:4 in 1 Wrote;

I never find the micro terrain to be realistic as i have never lived on the moon before, I agreed, however, that they have placed too few things in forest

Well i've probably been in moon then. Sure it's not 100% accurate, or even 75% (i don't know), but it's closer to my experiences than what i get from ArmA or from ArmA2 demo.

Edited October 9, 2009 by Second

[whisper 0]

There's enough features in A2 terrain to keep you covered most of the time, honestly. You need a bit backpedaling, often, but it works

If it means better performance, seeing the current bad perfs of A2, I'm ok with this.

Honestly, if A2 was like DR graphically wise (minus the horrible colours, ofc, but using better ones), but also like DR performance wise, this would be the FPS of the year. That's something BI should learn from CM

[sparks50 0]

Can someone tell me more about the limitations in the editor? Ive placed 20 scripts in it, where as I got a pop-up telling me that the maximum amount has been reached, and when I placed 65 soldiers, and set one of them as players, I got nothing but a grey screen upon attempting preview.

63 entities, what does this mean?