Dragon Rising has been released

[Deadfast 43]

I love the fact that a heap you seem to have nothing more to do than search the CM forums for my posts to comment on them here

I love the fact that you don't have anything better to do than fuel the fires here.

Seriously, just stop :)

[jw custom 56]

I love the fact that a heap you seem to have nothing more to do than search the CM forums for my posts to comment on them here

There's no need to search on the CM forums, if you remember to log in there once a week threads are still on frontpage :p

[vilas 477]

I dont understand why you feel cheated, what did they cheat you out of exactly?

if you not understand what they did with "sequel" "never seen before mil. real. large battle scale" etc. and their baning people who say that Arma has something...

if you not understand basic things than there is no point to discuss

if people comment your Youtube videos with Arma comparison - for me it is natural

if you promote crap product, people wanna show that other product is better , for me it is understandable

although i am quite old man now i am still surprised that there are still people who are confirmed that "black is white and white is black"

[dm 9]

ITT: Massive amounts of drama, and some over inflated egos... :k:

[vasmkd 12]

There's no need to search on the CM forums, if you remember to log in there once a week threads are still on frontpage :p

very true, i logged on a handful of times the last 4 weeks and what u say is so true. i think nealy all the 40-80 people viewing are just ARMA2 fans having a laugh at a few desperate die hard fans.

Basically the forums are just a small handful of cm fanboys againts the rest of the people that feel ripped off by a very very bad game in those forums lol.

Typical DR players day:

When is the patch gonna come out?, are they gonna release SDK? When will this game be fixed? Why no dedi servers? Multiplayer is crap. The game is crap.

Typical ARMA2 player day:

Wohoooo new Island, vehicle, mod, patch. This game is awesome. Multiplayer is so cool.

[andersson 285]

believe me, if I could release my mission for the console people for free I would. My mission is free on the PC, which is the only comparison you can make to this game and its community, as there is no ARMA2 for consoles. If there was, I can almost guarentee you BIS would charge for DLC, because it does cost money for a company to put stuff up for console users to download.

What would you rather as a console user, pay for community content, or no community content at all? Honestly?

In OFP-elite (Xbox) users could share their missions for free. Why not in OFP:DR?

[templargfx 10]

In OFP-elite (Xbox) users could share their missions for free. Why not in OFP:DR?

Because this is the world of XBOX Live and PSN Networks where Microsoft and Sony want to dip there hands in everything :p

[nuxil 2]

Oh god..

this thread still alive.. it hurts my eye each time i see Ofp dr topic on bis forum

can we make a Worst game of the year 2009 poll

1- ofp dr

do we need other nominations :p

[[frl]myke 14]

believe me, if I could release my mission for the console people for free I would. My mission is free on the PC, which is the only comparison you can make to this game and its community, as there is no ARMA2 for consoles. If there was, I can almost guarentee you BIS would charge for DLC, because it does cost money for a company to put stuff up for console users to download.

What would you rather as a console user, pay for community content, or no community content at all? Honestly?

Although this post is 2 sides back, here i have to give an answer.

What would i do? Taking this case now as example (your mission, free on PC and unfree for consoles)....i would throw away console and get a decent PC which may be more expensive at first but turn out cheaper on the long run.

Honestly, i don't see why consoles are so popular. If i would like to play games on my TV set, i preferably built up a silent livingroom-pc as it's no hassle to connect todays graphic cards with todays tv sets.

If i would have to pay for something that others get for free, i would feel cheated.

[vilas 477]

Myke - maybe because that there are some people for which PC is too complicated machine ?

[Placebo 29]

This thread is not here for people to bash each other, this thread is not here for people's over inflated egos, this thread is not here to copy and paste comments from people from other forums, this thread is here solely to discuss the game in its title, the personal bickering must stop, the trolling must stop else further infractions will be given out. This message is for everyone.

[[frl]myke 14]

Myke - maybe because that there are some people for which PC is too complicated machine ?

Well then, then they deserve console and OFPDR. :D

And then, they wouldn't be happy with ArmA 2 anyway.

[4 IN 1 0]

watching this thread is like watching a train wreck, it is awful to watch, but you cant help yourself to look at it -- just like the game we are talking about:p

[andersson 285]

Because this is the world of XBOX Live and PSN Networks where Microsoft and Sony want to dip there hands in everything :p

True! Good point.

Btw templargfx, even though I do think you are fighting fire with gasoline in this thread I do aknowledge what you have done for OFP:DR. And about my OFP-elite input, I think its sad that CM didnt incorporated something similar. Now it must be included in patches, because of M$ and sony?

About your post at CM forum about how much people are willing to pay. I never read it as you wanted to get payed. It looked for me as you wanted to give the console players the same stuff as PC players get. As CM seems to want money for stuff like that it was a fair thread to show CM's that they maybe should incorporate some usermade missions. Then one can discuss CMs ethics about that..

[vasmkd 12]

The saddest thing about DR is it's a totally messed up game and 90% of ppl who followed it on CM forums have now left it or hate it.

Whats' more sad is CM's handling of the situation regarding addons, dedi servers, lies, etc etc.

The only reason i really log into their forums is to check on DIRT 2 and then to amuse myself with the next bit of bad news CM release (standard procedure these days). The news that is like an axe swinging at your head trying to chop it off and it's coming from the person you love most. In this case the game company alot of fans loved or even more funny is how a few still love it.

It's like watching homer simspon go doh, doh, doh

As far as a future for DR i cannot see any. It might just hold a very tiny community following from console users.

[templargfx 10]

Btw templargfx, even though I do think you are fighting fire with gasoline in this thread I do aknowledge what you have done for OFP:DR. And about my OFP-elite input, I think its sad that CM didnt incorporated something similar. Now it must be included in patches, because of M$ and sony?

Whats really sad about the whole situation is how simple it would have been for them to make it possible, the mission editor that is included with the PC can have a text file created which enables the options for exporting to the consoles, the packaging application is not included, so although the mission is exported, it is not packed up into a format ready for the console you exported for. CM could have very easily given this application along with the mission editor, and a very quick and slight adjustment to the code of the game to have it search the memory card/hard drive in a specific location for mission files would have allowed console users to download and play PC missions. I guess the reason this was not done is due to the instability of the engine on consoles? Obviously I have no idea about this, but considering the stability of the game on a PC which is much more powerful, it is the likely reason.

About your post at CM forum about how much people are willing to pay. I never read it as you wanted to get payed. It looked for me as you wanted to give the console players the same stuff as PC players get. As CM seems to want money for stuff like that it was a fair thread to show CM's that they maybe should incorporate some usermade missions. Then one can discuss CMs ethics about that..

Im glad to see at least one of you bothered to read the thread :p

[[frl]myke 14]

Whats really sad about the whole situation is how simple it would have been for them to make it possible, the mission editor that is included with the PC can have a text file created which enables the options for exporting to the consoles, the packaging application is not included, so although the mission is exported, it is not packed up into a format ready for the console you exported for. CM could have very easily given this application along with the mission editor, and a very quick and slight adjustment to the code of the game to have it search the memory card/hard drive in a specific location for mission files would have allowed console users to download and play PC missions. I guess the reason this was not done is due to the instability of the engine on consoles? Obviously I have no idea about this, but considering the stability of the game on a PC which is much more powerful, it is the likely reason.

You aren't that naive, are you? The one and only reason they did not implement any sort of mission importing option into the console version is because this way it's far more easier to sqeeze more money out of their customers.

If Consoleros could import missions from PC version, no one would be interested in DLC they have to pay for.

I'm absolutely sure, they included a mission editor on the PC version as they knew they have to compete with ArmA 2 on PC. On consoles there is no competitor so they left the editor out.

[Zipper5 74]

Im glad to see at least one of you bothered to read the thread :p

I read the thread. I never thought you were making money off of it, I was angry because you were offering to give CM more money for your work just to squeeze more money out of those who have already been suckered into buying the DLC. They don't deserve to make more money off the game, which they inevitably would if they brought your mission to the consoles. You're simply pro-longing their ability to get more money from their customers for an exceedingly unworthy product. It's a ripoff.

And yes, I agree with Myke 100%.

[vilas 477]

money squeezing is the only reason

is he naive ? or he play PR ?

naive are those who type on CM forums "next patch will solve all, give CM few months as BIS had few months for patching Arma"

naive he could be in first days, many months of DR on market shown something very clearly

after so much CM tricks and lies there is no place for nativity, only for PR lies

shame that not satisfied customers that wanted money back for DR , haven't got refund, than maybe DR would be below costs of development ?

[instagoat 133]

@Vilas: In most cases, the shops have already paid for the games they take in stock before they are bought by customers, apart from preorders I guess. So even if people give the game back to the store, Codemasters would still keep the money.

Marketing wise, the game is very well thought trough front to back. No system to port missions from PC to Console, no Mission Editor for Console, no modding tools, locked files and the way it looks also a load of locked/read to ship Content for DLCs. Lots of dependancy on CM for new content.

On top of that the marketing campaign pre-release and how that whole thing ties in with the game itself: brilliant! Unfortunately, such a good marketing layout doesn´t make for a good game.

But as long as people swim with the stream and allow Codemasters to make more money off the brand, they will go with it. I think of CM not as a bunch of individuals, but as a non-anthropomorphic personality, with the single minded goal to increase its profits and market reach. And like many companies, it looses touch with the customer base during that process.

Which is why I appreciate Indie developers such as 1C Maddox (Who are sort of Indie), Icepick lodge (Who have made the fantastic Pathologic, and The Void), Tale of Tales and indeed BIS, because they don´t just make the more creative, daring and outworldish games, but they also stay in touch with their communities.

[-RIP- Luhgnut 10]

My disdain is solely focused on CM and more-so on Lenton himself. Literally up to launch and even at launch, he boasted falsehoods about the title. Thirty days prior, he was on national TV shows literally lying about the content of the game. The magazines should be ashamed of themselves because even before the launch they were posting rave reviews. But they weren't reviewing, they were taking copy material produced from CM and just shoving into the pages of their mag and on websites.

CM has a history of releasing really mediocre titles, in fact I actually passed on OFP when it first came out simply because it had CODEMASTERS plastered on the box.

Now they have a golden opportunity to show that they can actually produce a decent title worthy of OFP name and instead do the money grab and the Curly Shuffle.

But the bold face cockiness of Lenton throughout the process is the most disturbing. Did they REALLY think they had a winning title? or did they know it was a fail and decide in advance to just fool the buying public. Lenton is either a bold faced liar or totally inept.

[Madus_Maximus 0]

Luhgnut;1541289']My disdain is solely focused on CM and more-so on Lenton himself. Literally up to launch and even at launch' date=' he boasted falsehoods about the title. Thirty days prior, he was on national TV shows literally lying about the content of the game. The magazines should be ashamed of themselves because even before the launch they were posting rave reviews. But they weren't reviewing, they were taking copy material produced from CM and just shoving into the pages of their mag and on websites.

CM has a history of releasing really mediocre titles, in fact I actually passed on OFP when it first came out simply because it had CODEMASTERS plastered on the box.

Now they have a golden opportunity to show that they can actually produce a decent title worthy of OFP name and instead do the money grab and the Curly Shuffle.

But the bold face cockiness of Lenton throughout the process is the most disturbing. Did they REALLY think they had a winning title? or did they know it was a fail and decide in advance to just fool the buying public. Lenton is either a bold faced liar or totally inept.[/quote']

I like the guy no more than anybody else here, but at the end of the day he was an employee of a company being paid to do that job. No matter how much your integrity is damaged by spouting all the crap he did, he likely has a family to provide for and had to play the CM game in order to remain in employment. The DR project apparently went through several teams and some of them even got laid off half way through, then they brought in another one to pick up the peices. I'd rather be a douche and have a reasonable paying job in the middle of a recession than be totally honest and get fired and be unemployable (or made more difficult) because I got fired for publicly badmouthing my former employer.

I think he had his hands tied, although the way he acted didn't help with his image. I'm sure he regrets a lot of what he did but who knows, he may just be a genuine wanker.

[-RIP- Luhgnut 10]

I like the guy no more than anybody else here, but at the end of the day he was an employee of a company being paid to do that job. No matter how much your integrity is damaged by spouting all the crap he did, he likely has a family to provide for and had to play the CM game in order to remain in employment. The DR project apparently went through several teams and some of them even got laid off half way through, then they brought in another one to pick up the peices. I'd rather be a douche and have a reasonable paying job in the middle of a recession than be totally honest and get fired and be unemployable (or made more difficult) because I got fired for publicly badmouthing my former employer.

I think he had his hands tied, although the way he acted didn't help with his image. I'm sure he regrets a lot of what he did but who knows, he may just be a genuine wanker.

Sure I understand that, but so do drug dealers, I'm sure they have families and bills and responsibilities, but that doesn't condone their actions.

As Executive Producer, it's the sole responsibility of the title to manage the project. Development staff, marketing decisions, content, vision, budget, etc. The marketing department typically don't know games, they are the pretty picture people etc. They take the input from the Executive Producer and make it pretty. As an Executive Producer, there isn't that much in the way of hand tying. You basically have a budget and it's your job to manage that budget to produce a title that has maximum return on investment. He IS the boss. Answers to the stock holders/owners. And they don't know a thing about games, they just want their money back plus profit. If any hand tying was done, he tied his own hands. Of anybody on the project, he is the least likely person to have any hands being tied.

An Executive Producer doesn't go to a bunch of people and ask if he can do something or not, because that's what they pay him for. He is the decider. Orchestrates the whole project title start to finish.

Look at his resume: $9.00 Games for Burger King. (those little racing games BK had a few years ago for Xbox.) and a failed MMORPG that was scrapped by the investors, because of "lack of vision and planning". "Lack of Vision and Planning" on the history of a Producer is a like a nail in the coffin. It strikes solely on incompetence. Just look up his background. It's on the web, he hasn't done anything of any noteworthy value and attention.

That's his resume.

I also feel, DR is another example of "Lack of Vision and Planning". How many failed starts and restarts? How many people went through the revolving door of employment at CM on DR? Just another reflection of "lack of vision and planning".

Edited January 11, 2010 by [RIP] Luhgnut

[Madus_Maximus 0]

Luhgnut;1541314']Sure I understand that' date=' but so do drug dealers, I'm sure they have families and bills and responsibilities, but that doesn't condone their actions.

As Executive Producer, it's the sole responsibility of the title to manage the project. Development staff, marketing decisions, content, vision, budget, etc. The marketing department typically don't know games, they are the pretty picture people etc. They take the input from the Executive Producer and make it pretty. As an Executive Producer, there isn't that much hand in the way of hand tying. You basically have a budget and it's your job to manage that budget to produce a title that has maximum return on investment. He IS the boss. Answers to the stock holders/owners. And they don't know a thing about games, they just want their money back plus profit.

An Executive Producer doesn't go to a bunch of people and ask if he can do something or not, because that's what they pay him for. He is the decider. Orchestrates the whole project title start to finish.[/quote']

Fair enough. It just seems to be the case he was in over his head and incapable of doing the job properly. I'm sure the investors got what they wanted from the projects. All the krud the PR team pushed out likely made them at least break even from pre-order sales largely based on the name.

One of my friends programming tutors at Uni used to work for Codemasters and he left because the management were a bunch of complete and utter incompetent buttholes who couldn't manage a piss up in a brewery. He had so many nice things to say about the company haha. I'm shocked they're still in business. I guess it has something to do with it being one of the last purely British development and publishing houses so investors think they need to keep it going to provide some sort of beacon for the British gaming industry. It's a shame to see where it's gone, most of the big things we've seen in gaming have been (at least in concept) created by us Brits, normally made with American money lol. Story of our lives really haha.

[-RIP- Luhgnut 10]

+1

There was another guy that was being promoted as a "savior" to the industry. Anybody remember Peter Molyneux? Same thing. Here's his wiki also a member of "Order of the British Empire".

He was hailed as a super game developer:

His titles include: Dungeon Keeper, Populous, Black and White, and Theme Park

Does anybody feel that these games are masterpieces? They are "ok" but don't have much in depth or any type of ground breaking technological breakthrough's.

excerpt from his wiki "Molyneux has acquired a reputation for issuing over-enthusiastic descriptions of games under development, which are found to be somewhat less ambitious when released." sound familier?

This is the state of British development sadly to say IMO. They seem to have excellent programmers and development staff, but seems like the producers are weak and more interested in becoming knighted, and members of Order of British Empire.

On the other hand look what's coming out from the eastern European sector. Excellent titles, solid development, things like Arma,Arma2, Rise of Flight, Wings of Prey. No big fanfare, no over the top announcements of content during development, no arm waving and jumping up and down for attention. They just appear and they are all excellent.

Small development teams but rock solid titles. I always get a feeling "this is unfinished" when playing a Brit title. Not like they are "bad" but just missing that certain playability factor. Controls are odd, menu flow odd, everything designed to be played with a keyboard only.

Again, i'm not slamming Brits in anyway ([RIP] will get me :) ). I'm questioning their leaders in the gaming industry.

Edited January 11, 2010 by [RIP] Luhgnut