Dragon Rising has been released

[MrBump 10]

Luhgnut;1568407']I find this highly unlikely that the GPU can pull that much current to the point of failure. The Amp load on the PSU just does NOT put out enough to melt 14 gauge wire.

Here's the current Amp rating for US Home equipment.

Circular Mills

64.1

Ohms at 1000 Feet

4109

Current Carrying

2.575

Fusing Current

166 Amps

You're PSU in your PC only puts out: 18 amps at 260Watts. Using the full load' date=' the system board will fail. Totally first. The soldier connections will break, and the power cable from the pc board connectors would seperate the etching off the mother board way before the 14gauge wire would cause open circuit. Furthermore the video card does not pull that level of amperage. Ever.

It can't happen.

Reference

Also, just for reference.... A household refrigerator running at 120Volts has an amperage draw of 10 Amps across 12 Gauge wire.

Also I believe modern PSU voltage rails are specifically designed not to overheat wiring:

3.2.4. Power Limit / Hazardous Energy Levels

Under normal or overload conditions, no output shall continuously provide more than 240 VA under any conditions of load including output short circuit, per the requirement of UL 1950/ CSA 950/ EN 60950/ IEC 950.

—ATX12V Power Supply Design Guide, version 2.2[3]

[-RIP- Luhgnut 10]

Yes, that's on the GPU connector to the mother board. NOT the Molex connector that powers the fans..... He's saying the molex connector line failed. I run my fans 100% all day, every day 24x7..

He's stating that because his was at 100% the molex fan connectors failed. Can't happen won't, happen, unless the PSU failed.

Also remember, the distance of the rating... that's at 1000 FT of line. You have what 5 inches? There isn't enough resistance in 5 inches of 14 gauge wire to cause enough heat build up to burn through PVC.

[Placebo 29]

For those of you who mentioned Syndicate, where you aware a new version is being made in this snowy town of Uppsala I call home? ;)

[MrBump 10]

For those of you who mentioned Syndicate, where you aware a new version is being made in this snowy town of Uppsala I call home? ;)

I loved Syndicate, but all I've heard of a remake is rumours... they're not making it into a FPS Xbox exclusive are they??

[rowdied 44]

For those of you who mentioned Syndicate, where you aware a new version is being made in this snowy town of Uppsala I call home? ;)

Can we stay on topic please? :popcornsmilie:

Your distracting me from the enjoyment I get daily reading about the train wreck DR has become.:D:D

[templargfx 10]

Luhgnut;1568421']Yes' date=' that's on the GPU connector to the mother board. NOT the Molex connector that powers the fans..... He's saying the molex connector line failed. I run my fans 100% all day, every day 24x7..

He's stating that because his was at 100% the molex fan connectors failed. Can't happen won't, happen, unless the PSU failed.

Also remember, the distance of the rating... that's at 1000 FT of line. You have what 5 inches? There isn't enough resistance in 5 inches of 14 gauge wire to cause enough heat build up to burn through PVC.[/quote']

This cable is used to provide extra 12 volt power to PCI Express expansion cards. PCI Express motherboard slots can provide a maximum of 75 watts. Many video cards draw significantly more than 75 watts so the 6 pin PCI Express power cable was created. These high-power cards draw most of their power from the 12 volt rail so this cable provides only 12 volts. These are sometimes called "PCI Express cables". They are also occasionally called "PEG cables" where "PEG" stands for PCI Express Graphics. If your power supply doesn't have a 6 pin PCI Express cable then you can use an adapter to convert two 4 pin peripheral cables into a PCI Express cable.

I lol'd at the molex connectors that power the fans bit

[-RIP- Luhgnut 10]

For those of you who mentioned Syndicate, where you aware a new version is being made in this snowy town of Uppsala I call home? ;)

that does it. I won't buy it under any circumstances.:p

---------- Post added at 12:25 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:10 PM ----------

This cable is used to provide extra 12 volt power to PCI Express expansion cards. PCI Express motherboard slots can provide a maximum of 75 watts. Many video cards draw significantly more than 75 watts so the 6 pin PCI Express power cable was created. These high-power cards draw most of their power from the 12 volt rail so this cable provides only 12 volts. These are sometimes called "PCI Express cables". They are also occasionally called "PEG cables" where "PEG" stands for PCI Express Graphics. If your power supply doesn't have a 6 pin PCI Express cable then you can use an adapter to convert two 4 pin peripheral cables into a PCI Express cable.

I lol'd at the molex connectors that power the fans bit

Ok, do this. Unplug your PEG cable. Since your line is already broken, just put the multimeter in line on the power lead. Read the amperage. IT's NOWHERE EVEN REMOTELY CLOSE, to any type of power output that can melt PVC. Ever. The rails to the card are one thing, but you said the power leads to the PEG connector.

The resistance from 12 volts coming off of that lead would have to have such a high resistance rating it would burn up everything.

It's not the power melting the line, it's the resistance to current ratio.

12 Volts to 14 gauge wire.

14 gauge wire has a resistance of 2.525 ohms per 1000 foot.

Length of wire to Peg cable is 5 inches With a resistance of 0.0010520833333333 ohms. (Resistance)

The output on that 12Volt line would have to be: 11405.940594059766 amps (Current)

136871.2871287172 Watts. (Power)

It didn't happen.

11,000 amps.

136,000 watts.

There is no way that you melted that power line.

You know why they supply the power fans from the 12 volt PEG? because the card is using the 12 volt rail to power the card.

High end cards sense no power coming from the PSU powering the fans and won't boot. It doesn't provide power to the GPU, that's off your rails.

Your said your GPU running at 100% for several hours caused by DR, caused your PEG fan leads to melt trying to cool your card. That is a joke. And that's what they do, and only do, power the fans. and you lol'd. clueless.

With my overclocking on the GPU, it's pushed well over 100% rated capacity for many hours playing Arma2. It doesn't even lock up my game, let alone melt PVC.

good god.

edit: oh btw.... to get that to max resistance? Your fan RPM's to the GPU would be 1133333.333333333 RPM before it melted.

and you 'smelled smoke' ?? You're fan would have detached, chewed through your case, through the wall of your room, killed the neighbors cat, and make a few laps to the store and back, before you "smelled smoke".

Edited February 13, 2010 by [RIP] Luhgnut

[templargfx 10]

I suppose it spontaneously combusted then hey, or perhaps an act of god......

[jw custom 56]

I suppose it spontaneously combusted then hey, or perhaps an act of god......

You were punished ;)

[Zipper5 74]

I think he's doing this simply because being a "fan" of Dragon Rising one has to question your competence, heh. :p

Kidding, of course.

[-RIP- Luhgnut 10]

I think he's doing this simply because being a "fan" of Dragon Rising one has to question your competence, heh. :p

Kidding, of course.

no, being an expert in DR editing, allows you to re-write the laws of physics. It says so right on the box. But have to wait for a patch.

[Zipper5 74]

Can't argue with that, to be honest... :butbut:

[[GLT] Legislator 66]

Hey guys :D I've just listened to Hammerfall - the Dragon lies bleeding :p Guess what I thought ...

[tonygrunt 10]

Lungnut your calculations seem off.

Checking online AWG 14 wire has 20A max amperage, higher than that and expect wire failure.

[Scrub 0]

I do believe that's at 120VAC, not 12vdc. Large difference as 120VAC*20A=2400W, and 12vdc*20a=240W. Not getting into the difference between AC sine wave and DC linear properties.

Y'know, that being said, there is something about the almost infinite rise of resistance to a connection approaching failure (microseconds before) that allows an arc to happen. Would it put out enough joules to have localized melting? hmm. Don't know the details.

Edited February 13, 2010 by Scrub

[-RIP- Luhgnut 10]

[/color]

Lungnut your calculations seem off.

Checking online AWG 14 wire has 20A max amperage, higher than that and expect wire failure.

those readings are for a rating at 1000ft of 14 gauge. We are talking 5 inches. The longer the line, the more resistance.

At 5" of PEG cable, there isn't enough resistance to build up the heat. You're correct based on 1000ft. At a shorter distance (5") you have to shove more current or voltage (or / other/ both) at it, for the backpressure (resistance) to build up heat.

If the PEG cables were 1000 foot long, 20amps would cause failure based on the ratings.

Edited February 13, 2010 by [RIP] Luhgnut

[tonygrunt 10]

Those ratings are for all lengths.

[-RIP- Luhgnut 10]

I do believe that's at 120VAC, not 12vdc. Large difference as 120VAC*20A=2400W, and 12vdc*20a=240W. Not getting into the difference between AC sine wave and DC linear properties.

Y'know, that being said, there is something about the almost infinite rise of resistance to a connection approaching failure (microseconds before) that allows an arc to happen. Would it put out enough joules to have localized melting? hmm. Don't know the details.

If VIRGIN PVC was installed on 14gauge wire, it would melt at 250-275 ºC or 527 ºF

and you're right, the closer it gets to failure, it's exponential in resistance and it's microseconds. By the time you realize the wire is hot, it's probably already broken.

The point being, before the wires would melt or start putting off gases to smell, the psu would have to put out so much current to resistance would allow the pvc to start putting off gases/failure.

Edited February 13, 2010 by [RIP] Luhgnut

[tonygrunt 10]

Some other points to consider:

- molex adapters can come with cheaper/thinner wires = lower amperage

- female molex to male molex don't always fit exactly and a loose connection might occur, overloading the second molex

- bend or hurt wire could cause premature failure

We are getting soooo offtopic now :D

[Flash Thunder 10]

Jesus, Dragon Crap has such good graphics that it literally burns out your GPU and strains all the wiring in your PC.

I hope I can use Mighty Mend to fix this problem!

@Templar I would strongly advise you either uninstall DR and reinstall with no patches or stop playing the game so DR doesnt DESTROY your PC any further it AINT WORTH IT!

Thanks alot Codefailures you cant even make a functioning video game let alone a small insignificant patch for the game. :dancehead:

[max power 21]

You should test the claim, Lug, and run the new DR patch for hours. I dare you. :p

[jw custom 56]

You should test the claim, Lug, and run the new DR patch for hours. I dare you. :p

That could cause a brain meltdown :D

[Nazul 10]

I just tested the 1.02 patch and the Ambush mission, believe it or not but i got killed! lol

Anyway my temps got upto 92C on GPU and then i quit because the game fucking sux. Thats not uncommon for my system though. I live in the tropics, its already 30C at 9am and see those temps often, but i know it didnt get that high pre-patch.

[templargfx 10]

http://i556.photobucket.com/albums/ss9/templar-gfx/burntwire.png 756 kb !

the physics defying wire itself

Edited February 14, 2010 by W0lle

[W0lle 1052]

16/02 - Confirmation of no further patches or additional DLC

Due to the actual reason I decided to allow discussion on the subject for another 7 days. Thread will be closed again February 23. Guidelines from the first post still apply so keep it civilized gents. :)

Edited February 16, 2010 by W0lle