Dragon Rising has been released

[Janxy 10]

people playing MP, and people modding, have nothing to do with people buying the game. 20,000 sales per week is pretty good for something that is apparently so shit no one would want to play it

It would be interesting to see how many people are actually playing the game at this point after release on all platforms and is that 20,000 copies to distribution or over the counter sales. I suspect the former.

I was chatting to someone who works for a major Xbox mag earlier on this evening and he mentioned he'd be suprised if anyone bothered with further dlc for the game as playing numbers have dwindled significantly and with some big game titles on the horizon it could well be that DR ( or rather Lenton ) has missed the boat.

DR isn't a bad game, but it has some major flaws and I think one of the main reasons for much of the vitriolic comments and hostility towards the game is the way it's been marketed, especially to the OPF1 and pc fanbase.

Edited January 26, 2010 by Janxy

[Bulldogs 10]

Kinda reminds of warhammer online. Had great sales figures but low subscription numbers due to people buying the game, playing it for one month then canceling their subscriptions.

[Madus_Maximus 0]

Luhgnut;1554220']Let's see a little sampling to see if Templar's claim to be true.

Dragon Rising

Arma2

hmmm same amount of people sampled. But since there is no multiplayer in DR. These people just sit around and do what exactly?

Average time played per day in Dragon Rising is just over 84.6 minutes

Average time played Arma2 is 158.3 minutes

Yeah looks they are on a major push. Sorta like when you go to the bathroom.

Templar' date=' even the people on the CM forums claim you are probably the only person doing anything with the game.

Now lets consider this. DR has been out for what 3 months. From #9 to #175 in 3 months. Average decline is 5.3 points a day.

Arma2 has been out for what.. 9? (including Europe). Average decline is .18 (or non existent).

That's fail in any book.[/quote']

Something to also note with those figures. Most ArmA 2 players don't use XFire. It doesn't work with the Steam version (if I remember correctly) and the majority of servers will be private and hidden being run by squads. DR uses XFire as it's main MP ranking so with that it's a fairly accurate meter. It'd be interesting if we had ALL the data for everyone who plays both games.

[Clavicula_nox4817 0]

I have Xfire, and it does not work with my US retail copy. I log a few hours every week, and sometimes log a few hours a day. I remember reading in some thread that Xfire only worked for a certain version.

[-RIP- Luhgnut 10]

Kinda reminds of warhammer online. Had great sales figures but low subscription numbers due to people buying the game, playing it for one month then canceling their subscriptions.

I can attest to that. I'm big warhammer tabletop, as well as an old Dark Age of Camelot. Got warhammer online.

Major flaw with the game: You need a mass amount of people to do battles, but if you get those people all together, the lag is so horrid, you get nothing but slide show.

Templar, the sales figures don't reflect what's going on. Sales figures are not sell through. They are the sales sold to the wholesalers. If your claim of all these sales, surely there would be a spike in the game players online. What you claim and what is reflected are way way different.

First off, I know people in a major distribution channel (actually two people) average number of copies of DR to the major distributors was 3 copies and those same distributors, have not reordered. The bargain bin yesterday at the two stores I frequent that have bargain bins had 8 copies of DR at one and 5 copies at the other. No new copies on the shelf. They were purchased and traded within a month due to COD MW2. I asked my buddy, "What's the going trade in value of DR?" Answer: "$3.00" In other words..."We don't want it. Not even for used."

Now look at Arma2. Distributed primarily in the US as digital download with very little if at all hype and marketing. DR on the other hand had huge marketing budget, magazine coverage, TV coverage and the sell through was nearly nothing.

You can jump up and down, make these claims, but the reality is that the game died nearly instantly upon release. Time after time, video after video, forum after forum, and fansite after fansite is trashing DR. You alone are the sole champion of this game. Why? I have no idea. You've bashed the AI, you've bashed the editor, you've bashed CM as well for the decisions they've made. I really don't know where you stand on the matter. It seems you change course to fit your claim of the day. So you've made a mission for DR. Yay.

Here's what I did.

Wargasm by [RIP] Luhgnut

--------------------------

My point being, if you think your' free roam map is going to wow the socks off and impress us here with your "Ultimate Roam" we aren't. I'm not, and will never be impressed by a game engine so pathetically crippled nor by the editors of that pathetic engine.

An "expert" of DR editing which goes on an Arma2 forum explaining your expertise and knowledge is like being an expert in an Etch-a-Sketch and going to the Louvre Museum in Paris, and critiquing the artwork there.

Do you see ANY Arma2 map creator going on the DR forums and announcing their expertise? Not a one.

This is Arma2. The REAL successor of Operation Flashpoint. You get it yet?

---------- Post added at 09:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:52 PM ----------

Something to also note with those figures. Most ArmA 2 players don't use XFire. It doesn't work with the Steam version (if I remember correctly) and the majority of servers will be private and hidden being run by squads. DR uses XFire as it's main MP ranking so with that it's a fairly accurate meter. It'd be interesting if we had ALL the data for everyone who plays both games.

This is true. without Xfire, you can't even have a chance of finding a game on DR. In Arma2, the server browser is so robust, not many people use it to find arma2 games.

So the numbers are even more pronounced than what's reported, yet still people claim that DR is a competitor. It's not even in the same league.

Edited January 26, 2010 by [RIP] Luhgnut

[templargfx 10]

Luhgnut;1554256']

My point being' date=' if you think your' free roam map is going to wow the socks off and impress us here with your "Ultimate Roam" we aren't. I'm not, and will never be impressed by a game engine so pathetically crippled nor by the editors of that pathetic engine.[/quote']

Why do you continually think that I'm trying to impress you here? the only reason I ever talk about my DR stuff here is because idiots keep bashing me for it.

Luhgnut;1554256']An "expert" of DR editing which goes on an Arma2 forum explaining your expertise and knowledge is like being an expert in an Etch-a-Sketch and going to the Louvre Museum in Paris' date=' and critiquing the artwork there.[/quote']

oh really, and WHERE have I been explaning my expertise? unless you mean when I answered QUESTIONS posted by YOU and others.

Luhgnut;1554256']Do you see ANY Arma2 map creator going on the DR forums and announcing their expertise? Not a one.

and Where did I "announce" my expertise hey?

Luhgnut;1554256']This is Arma2. The REAL successor of Operation Flashpoint. You get it yet?

If you were paying any attention at all, you would know that from day one I have always said DR has nothing to do with Operation Flashpoint. And that I DO NOT think its a successor.

GOD your like a little child that will say anything to win an argument, even one thats not even there

[Madus_Maximus 0]

If you were paying any attention at all, you would know that from day one I have always said DR has nothing to do with Operation Flashpoint. And that I DO NOT think its a successor.

I'm not sure if he was aiming that specificically at you, or more at Codemasters, because they DID claim it was exactly that when marketting it. BIS had to step in and put an end to that and threatened to sue them because it was a lie.

[-RIP- Luhgnut 10]

Why do you continually think that I'm trying to impress you here? the only reason I ever talk about my DR stuff here is because idiots keep bashing me for it.

oh really, and WHERE have I been explaning my expertise? unless you mean when I answered QUESTIONS posted by YOU and others.

and Where did I "announce" my expertise hey?

If you were paying any attention at all, you would know that from day one I have always said DR has nothing to do with Operation Flashpoint. And that I DO NOT think its a successor.

GOD your like a little child that will say anything to win an argument, even one thats not even there

Once again, you prove my point better than myself.

You know.... you remind me of this beagle that lived down the street from me. Every month, he would go down to the house were the police dog lived (Germain Shepard), and decide to get a piece of that dogs ass. Would go into the police dogs territory, make a big scene, and then get nearly eaten. He would go home all bloody and whimpering, and everybody back home would go "poor poor little doggy did that big mean police dog eat you again?"

Next month after he was all patched up and feeling pretty baddass, he would go back down for his monthly literal ass chewing.

[Second 0]

The major difference here is (well, there's two) is that BIS didn't promise the world with ArmA 1.

[snip]

The other company who just don't seem to give a crap will get bad rep and lose future business. Codemasters are in the latter category.

First is true. It was community which promised that they get whole world, reason why whole thing backfired. I've had respect for BIS as they don't atleast lie: They don't do games which i would enjoy anymore, but atleast they are honest about it. In this sense OFDR and CM is guilty, much more guilty than BIS is. BIS main flaw is it's unhealthily fanatic community and lack of communications from BIS to community to chill down those fanatics. People say that BIS communicates with their community? I haven't seen that. People report bugs and state of those bugs is visible, they might go into some interview. Yay. What i respect is that developers comes to forums and discuss with community, not just anounce something, but take actively part, preferably on daily basis. BIS is just like the rest... But yes, CM is worse, far worse.

Second could be true, could be not. They are making OFDR2 which hopefully (ofcourse hopefully :D ) generates need to fix the game, which continues to affect OFDR1 also. Then again might not. However this is all assumptions, no proof that support will drop or will it continue to exist. Time will show that, sadly.

[[GLT] Legislator 66]

People say that BIS communicates with their community? I haven't seen that.

That may be your experience, but not mine at least. Whenever I contacted a BI developer I got an answer (even private messages). I'm sure you'll get one too if you're polite and have patience. Be aware that some of the BI developers may not speak english very well. They're active here in the forums. However I'm sure they're not gonna be paid for chatting but for working on the game. And if you'll get to know some of them, you'll recognize they're pretty nice guys :)

[eble 3]

Same here I was given enough info prior to the release of Arma2 to be able to convert aircraft etc.

Take vilas comments above about weapons ranges etc, mentioned it fixed next patch (Lucky him :) )

[vilas 477]

stop assuming things when you make comparisons jeez

And why do you feel you need to compare anyway? Got tired of saying that the two arent comparable.

i was joking but this time he pissed me off

not comparing ?????????

"OFP sequel" "never seen before in any game level of military realism" "open world" "large battles" etc etc etc lies, f*** lies, mutha**** lies

DR is nothing but a lie supported by liars who turn upside down situation, first "OFP sequel that will kick Arma ass , Arma buggy, DR military simulator" than "why comparing" ???

simple mention on CM forums "Arma allow more than 63AI and more than 3 teammates" and you are BANNED

Templar, what tha hell you do here except pissing off Arma community with marketing lies ?

if CM started sayin they do OFP 2 (knowing OFP1) only ignorant won't compare it to OFP1/Armas

Edited January 26, 2010 by vilas

[gulag 10]

You know, if you look out into the gaming world, outside of the BIS community, Dragon Rising was pretty well accepted. It's continued increasing sales seems to suggest that people in general like it.

Pretty well accepted? I accept it in my house but that does not mean I play it, and there are many DR buyers who do the same thing.

people playing MP, and people modding, have nothing to do with people buying the game. 20,000 sales per week is pretty good for something that is apparently so shit no one would want to play it

20 000 sales per week?:eek: LOL man! I've only heard such sh.t in my country during communism, just propaganda. Why is almost nobody on the DR forum?

I think you are The best proof that the DR game stinks...You're in this forum because the other forum is empty, and those two or three who are out there the only thing you do is just begging something from Bu..Sh.tMaster. Continue to begging, maybe..... someday, your Master will drop something.:o

[andersson 285]

...People say that BIS communicates with their community? I haven't seen that. People report bugs and state of those bugs is visible, they might go into some interview. Yay. What i respect is that developers comes to forums and discuss with community, not just anounce something, but take actively part, preferably on daily basis. BIS is just like the rest...

Not really true. You will se BIS staff pop up here and there when its important. It seems like they try to stay away from discussions, which imho is smart of them. But if something needs to be adressed they are there. One of the best examples of user-developer interaction was the beta thread. There it were daily discussions between user and developer.

So no, I dont agree on that. You can search the forum for posts made by 'Maruk', 'Suma' or anyone else in the staff and you will see.

A short thing about TGFX and his free roam mission. Some credit has to be given for his effort. Yes anyone can do the same and better in arma2, because the editor is so much better (it seems). To do what he did in DR is an achievement (it seems) as he also needed a programmer to help him (might be wrong there?).

Then one can question if its the right engine to put an effort into, but really thats his choice. Im not telling anyone what to like and what to do. Whatever makes you tick..

So I can understand people being annoyed of CM and DR (I am because of the way they sold DR and used the OFP name), but let people make up their own mind when it comes to what games they play.

[jw custom 56]

"DR is becoming more popular each day."

LMFAO... haha thats exactly how it works at CM's forums :p

[templargfx 10]

&reg2=All&game2=Operation+Flashpoint+2%3A+Dragon+Rising+-+PS3[23422]&reg3=All&game3=&weeks=20&weekly=1"]working URL for the charts

copy the whole line, bullshit hey

Edited January 28, 2010 by Dwarden

[[GLT] Legislator 66]

people playing MP, and people modding, have nothing to do with people buying the game. 20,000 sales per week is pretty good for something that is apparently so shit no one would want to play it

So buying and not liking/hating the game is possible from this point of view?

[dmakatra 1]

Not really true. You will se BIS staff pop up here and there when its important. It seems like they try to stay away from discussions, which imho is smart of them. But if something needs to be adressed they are there. One of the best examples of user-developer interaction was the beta thread. There it were daily discussions between user and developer.

So no, I dont agree on that. You can search the forum for posts made by 'Maruk', 'Suma' or anyone else in the staff and you will see.

A short thing about TGFX and his free roam mission. Some credit has to be given for his effort. Yes anyone can do the same and better in arma2, because the editor is so much better (it seems). To do what he did in DR is an achievement (it seems) as he also needed a programmer to help him (might be wrong there?).

Then one can question if its the right engine to put an effort into, but really thats his choice. Im not telling anyone what to like and what to do. Whatever makes you tick..

So I can understand people being annoyed of CM and DR (I am because of the way they sold DR and used the OFP name), but let people make up their own mind when it comes to what games they play.

This is about the only sensible post that's ever come out of this thread for the past hundred years or so.

Edited January 26, 2010 by dmakatra

[templargfx 10]

A short thing about TGFX and his free roam mission. Some credit has to be given for his effort. Yes anyone can do the same and better in arma2, because the editor is so much better (it seems). To do what he did in DR is an achievement (it seems) as he also needed a programmer to help him (might be wrong there?).

Then one can question if its the right engine to put an effort into, but really thats his choice. Im not telling anyone what to like and what to do. Whatever makes you tick..

I wish the developers would help me sometimes, as I often run into undocumented limitations, but there help is really just them running it through some type of extended debugger and giving me the output. then I find a work around to the issue I have encountered. So far they havent ever actually given me any code or anything. To be honest, half the time I wonder if they actually know anything about there own engine :p

[Zipper5 74]

People buying the game does not mean it's a good game. BIS has probably had a much greater success with ArmA II than they had with any of their previous games. It seems a lot more people bought it and liked it, and continue playing it. Especially after DR's release.

DR recently arrived over here, in the Middle East. Many of my friends saw it as it was in the main Virgin Megastore of the country, and asked me what it was like. I told them I personally hated it, and that they should spend their money on ArmA II, which was sitting right next to it. A few of them bought both, and you know what? They love ArmA II and hate DR. I then filled them in on the story behind it, and their general response was "well, no wonder ArmA II is so much better".

People might still be buying the game, which is unfortunate as CM don't deserve another penny, but they don't continue playing it. I bet there are many people who feel ripped off about DR and even more who have returned it. This week I checked the area where DR used to be, and all of the remaining copies were in the "Used" section. Says a lot. Those guys are all still playing ArmA II as well.

[Janxy 10]

http://www.vgchartz.com/swlaunch.php?reg1=All&game1=Operation+Flashpoint+2%3A+Dragon+Rising+-+X360[23421]&reg2=All&game2=Operation+Flashpoint+2%3A+Dragon+Rising+-+PS3[23422]&reg3=All&game3=&weeks=20&weekly=1

copy the whole line, bullshit hey

vgchartz only provide estimates based on data from a few big retailers with the rest a projection. They do not reflect real over the counter sales or for that matter if those original buyers are still playing the game.

They are useful for spotting trends, but the data regarding units shipped will be way out from the real over the counter sales.

Edited January 26, 2010 by Janxy

[Zipper5 74]

I figured I would add that it's exactly the mindset of the number of sales dictating how good of a game it is, is exactly what Codemasters hopes/hoped for. Far too many people think that because a game sells well it's incredible. An excellent example of this is DR, but another example could be MW2 (depending on what you think of it, I actually enjoy it quite a bit).

And don't say that because I like MW2 it's similar to you liking DR, Templar. MW2 actually has thought put into it and a very high amount of polish and working game mechanics. Sure, I wouldn't say it's better than COD4, but it comes pretty damn close. DR compared to OFP on the other hand, they are on completely different sides of the spectrum.

[Bulldogs 10]

According to the VGChartz :

Operation Flashpoint : Dragon Rising for Xbox 360 has sold 690,000 copies

Operation Flashpoint : Dragon Rising for PC has sold 0 copies

ArmA II for PC has sold 0 copies

Good thing VGChartz are accurate

EDIT : I should add that MW2 for PC and well.. every other game for PC on VGChartz have all sold exactly 0 copies.

Edited January 26, 2010 by Bulldogs

[b0b 10]

http://www.vgchartz.com/swlaunch.php?reg1=All&game1=Operation+Flashpoint+2%3A+Dragon+Rising+-+X360[23421]&reg2=All&game2=Operation+Flashpoint+2%3A+Dragon+Rising+-+PS3[23422]&reg3=All&game3=&weeks=20&weekly=1

copy the whole line, bullshit hey

Yeh and how many people returned/traded in the game after the release date in disgust? i bet there's no stats for that eh?

Large companies such as amazon and play knew of the aweful and illegal sales pitch CM presented with this game and believe me when i say here in the UK Trading standards are investigating the whole rigmarole of false ads, but CM wont tell you that.

There was a linkage somewhere showing that CM was also accused of padding sales figures but i cant find the link now, surprise surprise its probably been taken down. Not to mention the whole article of how CM treat their employees.

Please Templar.... i know your seen as the "head modding guy" for the so called "Community" ( big lol with community ) over at CM forums so id expect you to stick up for the game/CM but you can mark my words they will have no quarms about screwing you over at the drop of a hat... that how CM rolls.

You gotta admit though... the release of such a lack luster game wreaks of CM biting off a LOT more than they can chew hopeing that the previous OFP name would carry the sales. Indeed it worked to a degree but in the process has irreparably damaged the flashpoint name and slurred their company image in the PC gaming world forever. I say .. Karma is a bitch eh.

I said it in the CM forums and got a ban for it ima say it again here.... totally incompetant. CM should stay away from PC gaming and carry on riding the cashcow that is the console market. They obviously havent the talent, the incline, nor half a clue to make it in the PC gaming world. They wouldn't have a clue on how to build a decent community if it jumped up and bit them in the ass as it did with DR and look how that turned out, you just gotta look at the state of the rest of the CM forums.

Wether you like to admit it or not ( coming from a non fanboy PoV ), technically the Arma series is superior in every way and way ahead of its time. Any arguments against this are based in denial.

[-RIP- Luhgnut 10]

wanna see something funny?

&reg2=All&game2=Operation+Flashpoint%3A+Dragon+Rising+-+PS3[23422]&reg3=All&game3=Call+of+Duty+4%3A+Modern+Warfare+-+X360[7316]&weeks=15&weekly=1"]compare this

notice week #7 from the left. That's last Christmas. Corporate buyers putting their orders in. Nothing for DR. No bump in sales what-so-ever. Notice no bumps even after a patch.

The first week when the orders went in for DR and MW2, the buyers were buying on the same order sheets DR and MW2. Proof that they waited until the very last minute then shoved it out the door in whatever state it was in because of MW2.

Now if you were a buyer for Amazon, Bestbuy, Gamestop, would you put your money on MW2 or DR? That's a no brainer.

Edited January 26, 2010 by [RIP] Luhgnut