FP : DR - News & Discussion

[max power 21]

To be fair, they have 6 months to refine what they are doing if they don't delay the game. Why they chose to send out those screens- which must be like CM OFP fan enthusiasm kryptonite- is beyond me. But, I think we should extend CM the same courtesy we extend BIS with the knowledge that what they are displaying is not a finished product. Certainly, those screens look like

Quote[/b] ]Call of Duty on mushrooms

(or even worse, because what I've seen of CoD looks fairly graphically good, if CoD4 is what Froggyluv was talking about), but who knows how old they are, or why they were released, or how much post they were put through.

... it does look like someone newly found the film grain PS filter, though :/

[TheReddog 0]

Guys lets be honest here, Arma looked awesome in the screen shots, yet once you actually installed the game you quickly discovered that it was buggy and ran horribly even on a high end computer. I have a PC double the games recommended specs yet I can barely run it with medium settings and even then looking at dense foliage causes my mouse to feel as if it's mired in molasses.

What evidence is there to indicate that Arma2 will be any different? NONE. Which is why I take all these awesome looking Arma2 screens with a lot of skepticism.

Looking at these OFP2 screens I am quite happy because I would much rather sacrifice a bit of visual quality and have the game run well than have a pretty looking but unplayable mess. The grass is good, so what if it's billboard style, at least you can see it is rendered into the distance a fair degree rather than just stopping 5 metres from your character like in Arma 1/2 which to be frank looks shithouse.

[BLSmith2112 0]

"I cant tell you what it is, but you all will be blown away -TOTALLY! So spread the word, tell your friends, go dancing in the street as you prepare for next week"

The magnitude of their confidence is interesting.

Not impressed by those screenshots at all.

We shall dance anyway!  

...What evidence is there to indicate that Arma2 will be any different? NONE...

-Ehh, kinda because they aren't starting from scratch like Arma1. If they were building Arma2 from scratch I'd have some worries but they aren't. Arma1, at this point, is pretty damn good. So, it can only get better.

...Looking at these OFP2 screens I am quite happy because I would much rather sacrifice a bit of visual quality and have the game run well than have a pretty looking but unplayable mess.

I am finding harder and harder to believe Codemasters on being capable of anything. Heres why: The team that is working on OFP2 has never made a FPS. So unless they have some really crappy art team and some Godlike programmers, my confidence is going down by the day, but we'll see after the 20th and their news release.

-Interesting though, BIS seems to be catching all the fire that Codemasters burnt out when they stopped putting any media out there. Good job! - Now just go run over some major European/Western magazine director and make him put your game on the front cover, for the next 3 months!

[max power 21]

What evidence is there to indicate that Arma2 will be any different? NONE.

Well... I dunno.. the fact that ArmA 2 was in development since before they even thought of ArmA 1... I think that's pretty strong.

[Pulverizer 1]

What?!! ArmA wasn't made from scratch. Nuh-uh. It runs on updated OFP engine and even has lots of objects lifted from cwc. Don't forget how bad the first ArmA shots looked like. And how bad ArmA looked like when you went looking in the wrong places. ArmA2 is continuation of this process, not a "new" engine either.

OFP2 probably needs to hold back the amount of objects because it's a multiplatform game, aiming for a concurrent release on all platforms (pc,360,ps3). I wouldn't hold that against them if the game actually runs playably on mid-range PCs and still looks decent, and is as detailed as they are promising gameplay-wise.

For ArmA2 to look any good, you will probably need a very powerful machine, just like ArmA. The console version will also probably look nothing like the in-game shots we are seeing now, if it will ever release on current gen.

Ohara, as a developer, you can probably answer this. Would Xbox 360 run the game playably at the quality and complexity you are showing in the in-game screenshots and videos of ArmA2? I think not, not in a million years.

[Pulverizer 1]

What evidence is there to indicate that Arma2 will be any different? NONE.

Well... I dunno.. the fact that ArmA 2 was in development since before they even thought of ArmA 1... I think that's pretty strong.

That tech probably went into upgrading OFP engine for ArmA and the rest of it sort of vanished into thin air, except perhaps some stuff they did with NPC interaction like talking to civilians.

[max power 21]

Some tech went backwards to ArmA and some didn't. ArmA was originally OFP 1.5, like Elite, and it branched out and took on its own life.

[NoRailgunner 0]

Arent those "new OFP2 pics" from GC'08?  

Imo its a marketing trick from CM: first they show pretty old pics and few days later they present better pics/vid + well written article/text as improvements in development.

Lets see if CM show some real ingame OFP2 scenes without postproduction.

[Lepardi 0]

Arent those "new OFP2 pics" from GC'08?  

Imo its a marketing trick from CM: first they show pretty old pics and few days later they present better pics/vid + well written article/text as improvements in development.

Lets see if CM show some real ingame OFP2 scenes without postproduction.

Yup, those are confirmed to be old screenshots taken for Leipzig GC back in 2008. Real new screens will be released on friday.

[EricM 0]

Quote[/b] ]Yup, those are confirmed to be old screenshots taken for Leipzig GC back in 2008. Real new screens will be released on friday

Thanks for the info...

As for final OFP2 quality, if CM has around 3 times the team and budget as BIS (100 people + ousourcing vs 30 in Prague ?), 6 months of OFP2 developpment could be the equivalent of 1,5 years of Arma 2 development in terms of man-hour.

They could catch up or take the lead unless they hit a very serious design flaw...

[Raphier 0]

What is really interesting, for me as developer, is extremly low comlexity of scenes in that sshots, there are just few objects on landscape. JUst few lowpoly trees, one or two units and lanscape, strange....

not to mention those are pretty much Pre-alpha screens from GC2008

[walker 0]

As for final OFP2 quality, if CM has around 3 times the team and budget as BIS (100 people + ousourcing vs 30 in Prague ?), 6 months of OFP2 developpment could be the equivalent of 1,5 years of Arma 2 development in terms of man-hour.

They could catch up or take the lead unless they hit a very serious design flaw...

Hi all

Ah the mythical "Man Year" rears its ugly head

http://www.folklore.org/StoryVi....ear.txt

like the "Man Hour" and "Man Month"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Man_hour

People who manage projects based on "Man Hours" and "Man Years" should beware! The reality is often different.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mythical_Man-Month

And according to Brooks' Law adding people to a project when it is behind and having to be postponed only makes a project take longer.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brooks%27_law

A project is only ready "When it is ready." at AGG we adopted that and BIS seem to have adopted it too.

Kind Regards walker

[MehMan 0]

As for final OFP2 quality, if CM has around 3 times the team and budget as BIS (100 people + ousourcing vs 30 in Prague ?), 6 months of OFP2 developpment could be the equivalent of 1,5 years of Arma 2 development in terms of man-hour.

If quantity was the thing here, then that may be. However, the problem lies in technological innovation.

[ohara 0]

Quote[/b] ]Yup, those are confirmed to be old screenshots taken for Leipzig GC back in 2008. Real new screens will be released on friday

Thanks for the info...

As for final OFP2 quality, if CM has around 3 times the team and budget as BIS (100 people + ousourcing vs 30 in Prague ?), 6 months of OFP2 developpment could be the equivalent of 1,5 years of Arma 2 development in terms of man-hour.

They could catch up or take the lead unless they hit a very serious design flaw...

First, core team does not sit in Prague. Second you really belive that we work at 30 people at so big project?

[Heatseeker 0]

As for final OFP2 quality, if CM has around 3 times the team and budget as BIS (100 people + ousourcing vs 30 in Prague ?), 6 months of OFP2 developpment could be the equivalent of 1,5 years of Arma 2 development in terms of man-hour.

They could catch up or take the lead unless they hit a very serious design flaw...

No.

Last time i heard BIS had about 50 people working on Arma 2, and they are using Arma as a foundation while CM is starting a multiplatform game from basically.. scratch.

Theres a huge diference, the engine that powers Arma 2 is the result of over 10 years in development.

[Lepardi 0]

As for final OFP2 quality, if CM has around 3 times the team and budget as BIS (100 people + ousourcing vs 30 in Prague ?), 6 months of OFP2 developpment could be the equivalent of 1,5 years of Arma 2 development in terms of man-hour.

They could catch up or take the lead unless they hit a very serious design flaw...

No.

Last time i heard BIS had about 50 people working on Arma 2, and they are using Arma as a foundation while CM is starting a multiplatform game from basically.. scratch.

Theres a huge diference, the engine that powers Arma 2 is the result of over 10 years in development.

Yeah and still has flaws from 10 years ago.

[froggyluv 2133]

Yeah and still has flaws from 10 years ago.

Everything has flaws.

The only relevant argument here is how do these flaws stack up against its competition's strengths and weaknesses. So far OFP/ARMA wins hands down in the All-Arms sim department.

[walker 0]

Hi all

Questions for Lepardi as you did not answer them before and you appear to be working for them/with them /part of the beta test team?

So on Friday will Codemasters be announcing that they have decided to put playable Jets in OFP2 after all; as many OFP fans will feel cheated by Codemasters if OFP2 is not even as capable as OFP1, and that is why OFP2 has been delayed?

Or is it that they have recognised their graphics are not up to their previous render aim point and that trying to improve the bad graphics is the cause of the delay in OFP2 and they are trying to fix them?

Or is it some other matter that has caused them to postpone the release?

Kind regards walker

[Lepardi 0]

So on Friday will Codemasters be announcing that they have decided to put playable Jets in OFP2 after all; as many OFP fans will feel cheated by Codemasters if OFP2 is not even as capable as OFP1, and that is why OFP2 has been delayed?

Or is it that they have recognised their graphics are not up to their previous render aim point and that trying to improve the bad graphics is the cause of the delay in OFP2 and they are trying to fix them?

Or is it some other matter that has caused them to postpone the release?

Kind regards walker

The only thing revealed is that we will see improved grass.

[Pulverizer 1]

Last time i heard BIS had about 50 people working on Arma 2, and they are using Arma as a foundation while CM is starting a multiplatform game from basically.. scratch.

Theres a huge diference, the engine that powers Arma 2 is the result of over 10 years in development.

Work on the OFP2 engine started years ago, and that engine has already been used in two multiplatform games. So they are not starting from scratch.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neon_(game_engine)

[Pulverizer 1]

Questions

If you really want to know, why are you not going to CM forums with your concerns? There is no one here who can answer your questions.

Speculating things here is stupid, when you can simply go there and ask the people actually involved. I wouldn't go to CM offtopic forum to ask why ArmA2 is delayed, that's ridiculous.

[eble 3]

It’s not possible to judge OPF2, the only screenshots we have are old and not very good at best (those textures are terrible, arma player made content makes these look bad)

We have lots of video content but we all know it’s just CGI/renders so you can’t judge anything from those either.

No flyable jet aircraft in OPF2 is inexcusable – how can OPF2 claim to be a follow on game when it lacks the originals features.

I hear arguments on the OFP2 forums that the island is too small etc to support aircraft, that’s crap, are they not expecting modders to create new islands? Very short sighted if they continue as suggested with no jet aircraft.

We will have to wait until Friday and see what is so special about OFP2.

Fair play to BIS for getting in-game footage out way before CM, at this stage CM will be playing catch up.

I’m hoping to buy both these games, Arma 2 is a certain buy, as I see it as an upgrade to Arma, a game I already like a lot.

OPF2 has to prove it’s worthy of a purchase, it’s tech is built upon arcade racing sims, so we know one thing is for sure we should be able to get a great racing mod going at least.

I’m happy we ‘might’ have two options this winter/summer (depending where you live) to try out.

Southy

[TheReddog 0]

As for final OFP2 quality, if CM has around 3 times the team and budget as BIS (100 people + ousourcing vs 30 in Prague ?), 6 months of OFP2 developpment could be the equivalent of 1,5 years of Arma 2 development in terms of man-hour.

They could catch up or take the lead unless they hit a very serious design flaw...

No.

Last time i heard BIS had about 50 people working on Arma 2, and they are using Arma as a foundation while CM is starting a multiplatform game from basically.. scratch.

Theres a huge diference, the engine that powers Arma 2 is the result of over 10 years in development.

And still performs incredibly badly while not looking that good either.

RE: No jets in OFP2.

I'd rather have no jets at all than unrealistically implemented ones like OFP/Arma. That's my personal opinion though, I never really enjoyed flying at all in these games.

I think they could be done well as non-playable craft, like having air assets available for CAS when properly called in.

[max power 21]

I'm interested to see how in depth the simulation is for the vehicles. They claim it to be quite good!

[eble 3]

I'm interested to see how in depth the simulation is for the vehicles.  They claim it to be quite good!

Heres hoping Friday proves a lot of people wrong and OFP2 can reveal something of interest.

Competition is good, and gives us the consumer more choice.