Why Arma 2 has a small market

[cjsoques 0]

I was quite shocked by this too, i really wanted to play it but with so little time and with ARMA2 just around the corner I only tried the demo... which was version 1.06 and ren very very badly!

I was later told that the full game runs much better and after reading some patch notes I was happy that ARMA2 would be good too.

I think BIS did well with ARMA2, as the above poster says... it was top 10 on Steam for quite a while. Also steam is good advertising!

yapa

if my strategy was as follows:

ARMA1 released...wait...ARMA2 released...go buy/play ARMA1 have fun...ARMA3 released...go buy/play ARMA2 have fun!

if I played one notch under the release curve it would have been pretty awesome I think...playing ARMA1 on Win 7 some new hardware, and patched up is a whole nother game from my when I got ARMA even at 1.06 :)

[Yapab 10]

if my strategy was as follows:

ARMA1 released...wait...ARMA2 released...go buy/play ARMA1 have fun...ARMA3 released...go buy/play ARMA2 have fun!

hehe yes a bit sad but true, hopefully future versions run much smoother when they are released! I was tempted to hunt around for ARMA1 but the graphics were a bit dated by todays standards and I was about to leave on a long trip overseas.

Yapa

[kklownboy 43]

...

your wrong. It will never be a huge fan base ,ala cod or bf ect, its a sim/sandbox.

---------- Post added at 10:56 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:53 AM ----------

.. "fuck off cod noob" attitude. ...

As it should be. When "clans" think they have a FPS that is like COD and come here to complain.. well you already know the answer...lol

oh and CLANS suck, Squads rule. If you dont understand, then i bet your server is a big old banhammer type, yeah go EVO.. NOT

[-RIP- Luhgnut 10]

hehe yes a bit sad but true, hopefully future versions run much smoother when they are released! I was tempted to hunt around for ARMA1 but the graphics were a bit dated by todays standards and I was about to leave on a long trip overseas.

Yapa

Hey, there's a place in Las Vegas where I ordered Arma1 Gold Edition for $5.99.

Check Ebay. http://cgi.ebay.com/ARMA-Gold-Edition-PC-US-Version-Perfect-Guaranteed_W0QQitemZ190327392601QQcmdZViewItemQQptZVideo_Games_Games?hash=item2c50658959&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

They are refurbished, but mine came like new. No problem with serial/cd key.

Just saying that you can get the gold at a good price if you look around. I'm' playing mine now more than Arma2. What's odd is that your squad behaves like you expect them to in Arma1... but they don't in Arma2. When that happens make you scratch your head. Like "You killed that bug in Arma1 that is now in Arma2, but it's still in Arma2??

[Jex =TE= 0]

If BIS spend little on advertising their profit margins can still be high even if they don't sell that many. CM could spend loads of advertising but see their profit margins smaller. As a company both want to make higher profits. As a community, we want to see more players. Well actually we want to see more players of our own kind rather than a load of run and gun noobs. It seems the higher the sales, the more asshats you tend to meet (unless you have a decently ran server).

The comment about admins locking the thread with comments about using the search button was spot on. It's the internet - get over it. People are always going to ask the same question again and again. If people are happy to help them out then what's the harm. If nobody replies, direct them nicely to the search engine. The worlds already got enough assholes...

[Placebo 28]

And as for infractions, don't even go there. I have seen high posting members perma-banned because they quoted an embed youtube video.

Nonsense, nobody gets perm banned for quoting an embedded video.

[EDcase 87]

I haven't read all the posts in this thread so it may have been mentioned but the reason why OFP2 has more attention is because its being released on Xbox and PS3.

Its simple numbers. There are FAR more console players than PC. Simple as that!

Edited August 13, 2009 by EDcase

[{sas}stalker 10]

As it should be. When "clans" think they have a FPS that is like COD and come here to complain.. well you already know the answer...lol oh and CLANS suck, Squads rule. If you dont understand, then i bet your server is a big old banhammer type, yeah go EVO.. NOT

I rest my case, golf claps all round, you've done yourself proud, I don't have to say anything else on the matter that conveys it any better than the above. :rolleyes:

[Guest]

Nonsense, nobody gets perm banned for quoting an embedded video.

I saw it happen. Some guy was confronted by Wolle for getting 5 quoting infractions. Now hes banned.

[Binkowski 25]

I haven't read all the posts in this thread so it may have been mentioned but the reason why OFP2 has more attention is because its being released on Xbox and PS3.

Its simple numbers. There are FAR more console players than PC. Simple as that!

Also, most PC gamers are more mature and older than console games. Not all, but most. Children don't want to play ArmA because they can't spawn in, kill kill kill, die, get another chance, repeat process. It's to slow paced for them.

[Cionara 10]

The most gamer simply doesn't care about this genre.

Yea and that is good, because there are enough kids out there playing it. And with kids I don't mean young people but people who disturb the gameplay, teamkillers and stuff.

When I was on a server today I wanted to know who's the gunner of my MI-24 and asked.... answer was "Micky Mouse" and "yo Mama"..

I was like... what the fuck ?

You know that just destroys the whole atmosphere. Go play UT jerks !

[kozzy420 21]

Yea and that is good, because there are enough kids out there playing it. And with kids I don't mean young people but people who disturb the gameplay, teamkillers and stuff.

When I was on a server today I wanted to know who's the gunner of my MI-24 and asked.... answer was "Micky Mouse" and "yo Mama"..

I was like... what the fuck ?

You know that just destroys the whole atmosphere. Go play UT jerks !

Cosign, let the young kids who scream and yell to play Halo and Call Of Duty, fine by me :D

[Placebo 28]

I saw it happen. Some guy was confronted by Wolle for getting 5 quoting infractions. Now hes banned.

Well if he was stupid enough to do the same thing 5 times in 5 different incidents of course he'd be banned, not to mention the fact the first couple of offences of any trivial kind result in only warnings (as you know fully well your own good self) if you do 7 or 8 trivial rule breakages one after another you deserve what you get, but either way your example would be incorrect, nobody is perm banned for one minor offence.

And I believe you're referring to Shinobi575? In our records there are 4 separate warnings and 5 separate infractions, all for different things in different threads over a 6 week period, so again, in no way at all was it "perm ban for quoting a video", that was merely the "straw that broke the camel's back" as they say.

[Guest]

Ok faor enough, i am misinformed.

But i don't think it would matter if he verbally abused a moderator and was on his absolute last straw, getting banned for quoting an embed video is pathetic.

What hurt does it do? Ok it's a rule, people should respect it, even if no other forum on the planet does it. So why doesn't the mod just edit it out?

Instead he leaves it there and the user gets banned. Could you correct me where i am wrong? Because from my current point of view i think its outrageous.

[fumo 0]

But i don't think it would matter if he verbally abused a moderator and was on his absolute last straw, getting banned for quoting an embed video is pathetic.

What hurt does it do? Ok it's a rule, people should respect it, even if no other forum on the planet does it. So why doesn't the mod just edit it out?

Instead he leaves it there and the user gets banned. Could you correct me where i am wrong? Because from my current point of view i think its outrageous.

It isn't the job of the moderators to edit the faults of the users, in that case everyone could do what he want and simply say "Why complain? Fix it and f***o** noob!" (just as example :) ). That's why it is our thing to respect the rules and the mods thing to penalize faults. And honestly, where is the hassle to delete the embed link out of a quote before posting?

[Herbal Influence 10]

Sorry, richiespeed, here I go completely with Placebo.

He quite simply showed that you were quite badly misinformed.

And, yes, multiple intentional forum rule breaking shouldn't be tolerated.

I am having had rule-ignoring-kids too much on multiplayer servers ... I am fed up with these "kids", like many of us are. I am going to hate summerholidays in Germany!

Lez stay a mature forum.

---------- Post added at 08:24 ---------- Previous post was at 08:13 ----------

It was a LONG time ago, but I do remember out-of-the-box finishing the entire OFP campaign without a problem at all...that's an indicator of quality right there.

Not possible in ARMA1 and because of that some people haven't even attempted campaign yet because they don't wanna have to do it all over after a major patch fixes the known issues keeping people from finishing the ARMA2 campaign.

Like I said, that was just my experience with OFP vs. ARMA

Ok - u got me on that very point!

I never did/do the campaign thing.

I am quite an exclusive "multiplayer".;)

But you can be sure that OF has had tons of bugs in the early stadium, like AA1 and AA2.

And I don't blame BI too much for it for it's an open game, an extremely complex one.

That's why we love it, don't we?

One very simple example why bugs cannot be burned out completely: In this games you might visit places no developer ever did actually visit. You might do things they didn't do. Sub-example: Placing a motobike into a woods cabin or trying to land with motobike on the roof of a house etc. etc. etc.

You might create situations even big battles in an instant that noone ever did before.

Because it's so uniquely open, it's so uniquely open for bugs.

One depends on the other.:j:

[-RIP- Luhgnut 10]

Sorry, richiespeed, here I go completely with Placebo.

He quite simply showed that you were quite badly misinformed.

And, yes, multiple intentional forum rule breaking shouldn't be tolerated.

I am having had rule-ignoring-kids too much on multiplayer servers ... I am fed up with these "kids", like many of us are. I am going to hate summerholidays in Germany!

Lez stay a mature forum.

---------- Post added at 08:24 ---------- Previous post was at 08:13 ----------

Ok - u got me on that very point!

I never did/do the campaign thing.

I am quite an exclusive "multiplayer".;)

But you can be sure that OF has had tons of bugs in the early stadium, like AA1 and AA2.

And I don't blame BI too much for it for it's an open game, an extremely complex one.

That's why we love it, don't we?

One very simple example why bugs cannot be burned out completely: In this games you might visit places no developer ever did actually visit. You might do things they didn't do. Sub-example: Placing a motobike into a woods cabin or trying to land with motobike on the roof of a house etc. etc. etc.

You might create situations even big battles in an instant that noone ever did before.

Because it's so uniquely open, it's so uniquely open for bugs.

One depends on the other.:j:

True but basic squad control would be nice eh? You need your squad in this game. You can't one man it. But if you can't control them then they are worthless.

[f2k sel 164]

I found OFP very buggy probably the most bugged I'd ever played at that time but it was playable, it did have that I must have another go factor. The editor also kept the game alive for a few years.

ArmA was also quite buggy and poorly done, it felt like a cheap addon but I did the campaingn a couple of times but it failed to keep my attention.

ArmAII has brought back the I must play it one more time factor but sadly only in the editor as the game crashes far too frequently to play the campaign which I haven't even looked at yet. The two training levels I tried were more than enough to kill that prospect.

So we waited weeks for the 1.03 only to find out that it didn't seem to address any of the major crashing bugs and for some it's made things worse.

Then they announce an expansion pack, which to me seems like rubbing your nose in it.

I spoke to a couple mates who were into OFP and they are just not interested in ArmAII after looking through the forums. They are older now and have families and when they buy a game they expect it to work they don't need the hassle of crashes and waiting months for patches.

This type of game is simply too big to test in house and needed public beta testing, some of the bugs were so obvious it's untrue, also the lack of documentation with the editor has always been hit and miss and just adds to the frustration.

[cjsoques 0]

This type of game is simply too big to test in house and needed public beta testing, some of the bugs were so obvious it's untrue, also the lack of documentation with the editor has always been hit and miss and just adds to the frustration.

You're right to be a good sale out of the box, this game required extensive public and/or closed beta testing to rigorously go through at least the core game structure with a game as complex as this.

Sadly enough I'm sure that wasn't an option because their publishes shoved the thing out the door before I'm sure they were ready which is why we got what we got.

An example, I remember World of Warcraft Closed Beta members being like ya! it's super ready it's good to go! Then open testing and the whole thing came crashing down. They found tons of bugs and had to make major changes to accomodate the large amount of people on the servers, they even extended the open beta quite a bit until everything was just right. On release, the game didn't come crashing down like it would have...then again they had all the time in the world.

It's a shame a one of a kind game like this does not get the development and testing time that it requires to actually work and not be at beta level at launch.

[galzohar 31]

What hurt does it do? Ok it's a rule, people should respect it, even if no other forum on the planet does it. So why doesn't the mod just edit it out?

If it didn't do any hurt there wouldn't be a rule against it. Then again I don't understand why the system allows for such a thing to happen in the firstplace. It's always better to make the system automatically enforce the rules where possible.

[Big Dawg KS 6]

Placebo is the system... :cool:

[spooky lynx 73]

But why? Well i think i have the answer, and i guess alot of you won't like it. It seems like BIS has made very little attempt to sell their game. We saw a few videos before release, and a few videos after. Nothing too special, nothing too bad.

I think, the main and first reason is the genre - ArmA2 isn't one of the countless first-person shooters, but almost simulator. Such games aren't played widely. At second, BIS hadn't released demo version for testing, and, friendly speaking, german customers became beta testers in fact. But they tested not free, but paid beta, which was named "version 1.0". The same thing was with ArmA1 and east-european customers. The game (AA1) I bought just couldn't be named "full release version", only some kind of beta:( All this affected ArmA1/2 sales. And at third, game engine is again refreshed and repainted, but OFP one, just with another new features. Even large amount of models were transfered to ArmA2 from ArmA1 without noticeable changes. People expect to see brand new game, but not refurbished old one with some bugs remaining from 8 years old OFP.

P.S. One little hint: need more money? Start selling the whole VBS2 package for the price of ArmA1:)

Edited August 15, 2009 by Spooky Lynx

[Second 0]

I think, the main and first reason is the genre - ArmA2 isn't one of the countless first-person shooters, but almost simulator. Such games aren't played widely.

Then what was Operation Flashpoint? ArmAs aren't much more simulators as OFP was, a tactical shooter with arcade vehicles and simulated world with moon cycles, daylight, weather etc. And ofcourse mission editor. Yet it sold million(s) of copies.

On your another point i have to agree:

Problem is that BIS's titles haven't much advanced, few veteran reviewers have said that ArmA2 is basically OFP 1.9, while ArmA was OFP 1.5. And they can't finish campaign without cheating and there are bugs. And they score ArmA2 by that, not great game, just good. Oh and those particular reviewers did give astonishing scores to OFP. I haven't read tons of reviews but wouldn't be surprised if this would be general line of reviews.

And final note:

I expect ArmA2 to sell better than ArmA did (it seems to be better game and marketing seems to be better), but it doesn't have change to reach sales of OFP. BIS's expectations for profit from ArmA2 probably are reached and BIS can keep up with doing more games. True they probably don't have enough money from ArmA2 to spent polishing their next :(

[Mudkip 0]

I think it's because the community is a bunch of elitists who are all like "fuck off to ur arcadey cod4!"

[spooky lynx 73]

Then what was Operation Flashpoint? ArmAs aren't much more simulators as OFP was, a tactical shooter with arcade vehicles and simulated world with moon cycles, daylight, weather etc. And ofcourse mission editor. Yet it sold million(s) of copies.

OFP was totally new at that moment. And lots of people bought it just to test some new game. Yes, millions of copies were sold, but about half of the customers (maybe even more) found that it's not some kind of Counter-Strike:)