Stance indicator

[Herr_kalashnikov 10]

I wouldnt want it for ArmA my self.

They whole point of these games is that u don't play a static camera 'eye'. U have the ability to turn your head so if u want to check which stance..

look at your aimpoint movement (thats instant and it works for me) or bind freelook on easy to access key and just look down. No need to distract me with more info on my screen.

[Big Dawg KS 6]

Why do you need an indicator? Just look at your shadow, or if you can't see it for whatever reason, look down at your legs...

[dunedain 48]

i don't support...it's suppose to be realistic ...not like your other fps games that show a little green guy on your screen, and when you get shot it turns red...uhhh...not happening.

The purpose of this topic is to tell that, at its current state, it's actually not realistic.. :raisebrow:

Following your logic, if having no hud is enough to be realistic, DR will be for sure the most realistic game ever on hardcore mode.. :j:

Edited July 20, 2009 by dunedain

[galzohar 31]

IRL I don't look around nor do I look at my shadow nor do I listen to my moans to tell that I am crouched or wounded or tired.

[Inkompetent 0]

Why do you need an indicator? Just look at your shadow, or if you can't see it for whatever reason, look down at your legs...

How often do you look at your own legs IRL to know if you are hunched over or standing?

[frederf 0]

I don't understand the need to have a visual indicator. If the ground is far away you're standing if the ground is close you're laying down. If you enter the map interface you take a knee. If you bring out a launcher you take a knee. If you fast forward you are standing. If you crouch and then run and then stop you're crouched.

We all know these things. If we have a memory of a functional human being it's not a problem.

[igor drukov 0]

If you bring out a launcher you take a knee.

That's no longer true: you can bring out and fire a launcher in standing position.

[Jimmy the Saint 10]

That's no longer true: you can bring out and fire a launcher in standing position.

There is no logic involved in doing this. :rolleyes:

Anyway I'm still with the overall arguments that have been expressed by Frederf and others.

[Inkompetent 0]

There is no logic involved in doing this.

There are lots of good reasons for a standing shot. Buuut, it's not the topic here, so I'll not push it further ^^

[igor drukov 0]

There is no logic involved in doing this. :rolleyes:

It's not a question of logic. It simply means that the memory of a functional human being, especially that of a veteran OFP/ArmA player, can be misleading in ArmA2. And in combat, this is no good...

Supporters of the stance indicator could also give Mandoble's GetPos a try in the editor. It was written for ArmA, but it works like a charm in ArmA2.

[IronPants 0]

All you need to know is that checking your map or gear makes you kneel. I quickly got used to standing up again after performing either action. There are obvious differences in height and movement between kneeling and standing, so even if you manage to forget the last stance you took, how is it not clear?

I quite like how you can gather state information from immersive visual (look at yourself, blood = injury) and audio (listen to yourself, panting = winded, pain sounds = injured) cues. I prefer minimal HUD elements.

[An Fiach 10]

I'd like to have no HUD with a key to make chat visible and for the VOIP to always be visible when someone is speaking just to overcome the recognition handicap of team mates.

[dayglow 2]

as long as it's part if a customizable option for the HUD I see no problem with options to make everyone happy

[galzohar 31]

Yeah, I really don't see what's the big deal having optional HUD features as long as turning them on doesn't give an unrealistic advantage (that is, crosshairs and ammo counters don't fall under this category).

[frederf 0]

Yeah, I really don't see what's the big deal having optional HUD features as long as turning them on doesn't give an unrealistic advantage (that is, crosshairs and ammo counters don't fall under this category).

Certainly except optional HUD elements have absolutely no precedent in ArmA. HUD elements have always been part of the config, difficulty setting, server setting, addon, etc... it's never been strictly up to user preference and I have no faith that we will ever get such a setup.

[chaplainDMK 10]

Why do you need an indicator? Just look at your shadow, or if you can't see it for whatever reason, look down at your legs...

*press alt*

oh look im standing, better crouch so i dont get shot

*fuck... 1... is down*

or...

haha! now i got you little bugtard!

*aims trough scope*

wtf its all shakey and bouncey!

*other guy turns around*

oh no! im too young to die

*starts shooting, misses totaly*

*other guy aims, shoots, kills*

*oh no!... 1 ... is down*

Edited July 21, 2009 by chaplainDMK

[galzohar 31]

We already have missions (no addons!) with optional HUD elements (ex: GPS in berserk).

The indicator doesn't have to be more than a few pixels in size, and can be combined with the damage indicator.

TBH the lack of a damage indicator is a much bigger issue. So many times I've been shot and only found out that I can't walk when I actually tried to walk and fell to the ground (or when my guy chooses to say "ahh, my leg" which can take a while). IRL I would've known way before that, usually right as I got shot. Sometimes you even get hit by a distant explosion and you never know how badly you got hit. Sometimes it's even difficult to tell the difference between the "I'm hit" effect to the "suppression" effects.

Edited July 21, 2009 by galzohar

[trips 10]

Gonna necro this thread because I think it's a good idea. Yes, after a while you get used to it but i'll bet the learning curve adds to the 'clunky' feel new players attribute to the game. I think there's also a double standard; your selector switch is something you'd have to remember yourself IRL but in-game we get a HUD indication of Semi/Burst/Auto. Imagine if we didn't

I'm also necro-ing this because I think it should more importantly cover your 'speed' also. Unlike with crouching/standing there are NO indicators for whether you're about to walk forward (weapon raised, ready to mess up some bad guys) or run forward (weapon down, ready to headbutt a bullet). The differences between running and sprinting are also subtle, and it's important you know as sprinting drains your stamina quicker (esp. important in ACE).

[johncage 30]

do people actually have trouble knowing what their stance is? what kind of perception problems do you have?

seriously. this is one of the more silly suggestions i've read on here.

[Beagle 684]

IRL when I'm crouching of course I know it but in the game it's not always clear. We should have an icon of our character that shows the stance we are in. Of course we could turn this on/off in the options.

In "other games" you cant look at your body from 1st perspective because there is none...in arma you can just [alt] and look down at yourself...you see, indicator is already in.

[trips 10]

I think you're missing the point. When you're moving, trying to stay near your team leader and keep good situational awareness, since crouch-running and stand-running look so similar it's easy to never question which stance you're in. With a stance indicator it'd be a lot more obvious, hard to miss in fact.

Yes it's a newbie issue and we all grow out of it eventually but when clunky & awkward movement is one of the big issues that puts a barrier for potential players we should be welcoming ways of easing the learning curve, especially when they add realism.

[CarlGustaffa 4]

The question came up during gameplay last night. We were holding at a position and two of us took a knee. Then after some time it occurred to me; why the hell can I see the top of / over my buddy's helmet, we're on quite flat terrain? So I tried hitting low stance key again, nothing happened. Key broken? So I started looking around with alt to check my stance, and sure enough, I was actually taking a knee. Was a tiny bit of elevation offset that caused the illusion.

Why should I have to "look around my body" over where I'm scanning to figure out my stance? No it's not a massive problem, but I could sure use that stance (and injury combination) indicator. It's something that's intuitive in real life, I can see why somebody don't want it as an intrusion on screen space, but I can't see why they want to deny it to others.

Played medic last night, and was several times called to guys who where shot at, but didn't have a scratch - it was just the suppression effects giving them the shakes. The "I'm hurt" voices doesn't help as you don't know if it's yourself who's talking or the guy right next to you. A gui element would help you. And in some vehicles, you may have no ways to check yourself for damaged textures.

How about a transparent outline that shows your stance, and when a part gets hurt, it fades slowly to red; minor injuries take longer to fade than major injuries. Could also be a delay+fade, the idea being that often you don't know immediately that you've taken a hit, it may only be that "wet sensation", and pain can actually take quite some time to kick in (based on own experience). So I don't want that immediate "hit indicator".

[galzohar 31]

Yeah IRL you don't look at yourself to determine your stance and injury status. You feel pain and you feel your knee touching the ground, hence small indicators at the corner of your screen make perfect sense.

[ProfTournesol 956]

Well yes, to increase the "situational awareness", some more help displayed on the screen may be usefull.

[celery 8]

I'm not sure how it's difficult to see whether you're crouched or not. I thought it's obvious the way you're closer to the ground, you see more of your weapon and you somehow managed to get to crouch position in the first place.