3rd person versus Egoshootermode

[IronPants 0]

you can get rid of the blur effect, but the screen still shakes like hell.

If you bother to actually look at the options, you will indeed find a headbob slider. I'm having a hard time resisting the urge to rib you for it... but seriously, the default setting is too excessive. Just turn it down / off.

[Inkompetent 0]

Just to make it complete:

The stance-conscience-problem seems to be one more arguement for 3rd view.

You find it here:

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=80669

Don't tell me that the stance indicator is something you have in real life! ;-))

Hell no! It's definitely not an argument for LookOverWalls person view. 1st person view with sufficient information, that's what it is about ;)

[Apocal 10]

Stance indication...? Seriously? Confusion-wise, it's effectively binary, either you are crouched or standing. If you think you are crouched and wish to stand, hit the stand button; if you are standing and wish to be crouched, hit the crouch button. If you are confused, hit the button relating to the state you wish to be in. It even works while moving.

On the other hand, if you can't tell the different between prone and crouched, you have much bigger problems than mere third person view will fix.

[whisper 0]

you can get rid of the blur effect, but the screen still shakes like hell. And with a rather big screen I can assure you that even if you are used to offshore fishing then you can still get dizzy and motion-sickness from playing 1st person view.

arg! :)

going to quote myself in this case :

Options -> Game Options -> Headbob slider to zero

;)

Notice it's NOT in the Videos Options

Btw, after removing it entirely for long time, I put a very little bit of headbob back lately, a little bit of Holywood Effects is not that bad after all (for immersion, gives more a "I'm scared" feeling... well, subjective thing :) )

Edited July 21, 2009 by whisper

[galzohar 31]

Yeah, that headbob is a real headache, lucky I found how to turn it off ~5 minutes after loading a mission for the first time. Shaking your screen is simply NOT the same effect as shaking your head IRL (try it - some people can actually run on a treadmill and read a book at the same time, but I don't know anyone who can actually hold a book in his hands and read it while running).

I still have problems with motorcycles bouncing around though, very hard to see where you're going with the massive bob you get when speeding through the woods ;) But at least you're probably not supposed to be able to even drive at those speeds on such terrain anyway, so maybe it's only fair.

[Herbal Influence 10]

I just learned that I love to enjoy BI games as a Real Time Strategy game (RTS) and less often as FPS.

This means that I tend to delegate soldiers/tanks round a house corner or up a hill instead of running / shooting myself. This is much easier, when you have a kind of "overview".

This might explain why I am quite annoyed when 3rd view is switched off by the server.

But it remains that egoshooterview erases big parts of natural environmental awareness for the tunnel view it creates.

[Alex72 1]

Yeah, that headbob is a real headache, lucky I found how to turn it off ~5 minutes after loading a mission for the first time. Shaking your screen is simply NOT the same effect as shaking your head IRL

Oooh it bumps a bit when running. Besides to me it makes the whole world inside the game to "move" a bit and it brings immersion - to me. Still head a la stick up my ass when running i had enough of from all the older games.

My slider is however set very low or puking will set in. Options and sliders is the future. :)

[Ruxster 10]

3rd person view is a bit unrealistic, but I think it's acceptable when playing against AI since they ignore grass and apparently some obstacles.

At the end of the day, 3rd person gives you an unfair advantage, I thought the whole reason people play these simulations, is to simulate.

Ai or not, no 3rd person view please, infact the whole reason im here in the first place is to get away from war games with 3rd person views.

Thank god you can swith it off on line.:eek:

[randir14 10]

One of the developer tutorial videos says 3rd person is meant as a substitute for body awareness, since in real life it's easier to know how exposed you are. I'm sure all of us have been sniped in the head because we were in first person mode ducking behind an object and we didn't know our head was sticking out.

[enforcer1975 0]

OTOH 3rd person view brings in even worse unrealistic feature, seeing past an obstacle without having to move any part of your body out of said cover. You can know who is behind this wall without having to actually go see it. Even worse when you're commander of a squad.

If you don't use it while playing, you're putting yourself at a huge disadvantage, trust me. I can't count the number of helpless IA I got using this

Beeing able to see past obstacles is the only and worst thing with 3rd person view.

On the other hand you have a better feel for your body/vehicle and environment when with 3rd person on. And you are less prone to vomiting :D

[galzohar 31]

It doesn't *only* let you see around objects, it also lets you see all around you even though you're in an armored vehicle in a position with limited FOV such as tank driver or gunner.

[Emberwolf 0]

Commander view needs to occlude all units out of the player character's physical LOS, and should also play sounds that can be heard from the player's physical position only (instead of putting sound awareness at the camera). In fact, this should go for third-person mode as well.

Each vehicle would have unique LOS cones coming from canopies/viewports/windshields and if you're driving along looking around your vehicle in third person, units would only become visible within those cones.

This would be ideal as a difficulty switch if someone wanted the old behavior.

I realize this would probably drag the CPU down and consequentially the framerate. Whether it's feasable or not, we can at least shut off third person capability right now as a perfectly functional solution.

I sure as hell refuse to play any pvp missions with third-person enabled. This goes especially for Warfare, where proper tank combat turns into a game of who can spot the other player's units quicker by slewing their view some hundreds of meters above their tank and looking over two hills and a forest.

[jumpinghubert 48]

I do not buy games with 3rd view only. It only makes the field of view bigger but destroy all immersion the rest of the game try to build up. There is an alternativ way to make the field of view bigger: zoom out.

[galzohar 31]

3rd person view doesn't really change the field of view, it just moves the camera backwards while giving you the same FOV as if you were standing a few meters back (that is, at X meters distance from the camera you will still see only Y meters). Zooming in/out is what actually changes your FOV.

[DirtDog 10]

Many love 3rd person and many hate it. There is no convincing anyone to change their mind. It is a personal preference. Most of the discussions I here are mostly in regard to person "3rd person view" not the vehicles "3rd person view".

The biggest cheat complaint I here is (1) you can see to much and (2) you can fire from this view.

What I like to see is the next version of Arma 2 is support for easy server or mission settings(in a mission file) to adjust different settings on 3rd person view.

Enabling setting of the x,y,z to adjust the 3rd person view, gun recital on or off and enable or disable firing in 3rd person view. All of these can be done in existing mods but it would be nice to have them settable in the server or in a mission parameter setting.

[Xerxes-17 10]

Whenever I am voted admin on the server I play on, I always put the game on expert mode (no 3rd person). This is for the following reasons:

1-The well known see over hills, walls and other obstacles without exposing yourself, which is bull.

2-Makes tanks able to see much better than possible as well a a few meters behind themselves! Tanks are supposed to have poor vision arcs. Tying in from this, the number of rambo tanks are lessened.

3-The command view again is like a personal invisible UAV.

So while it is true that you can see via peripheral vision, eitehr drop the dosh for a multi-monitor setup or accept it as a technological limitation.

[Herbal Influence 10]

Another optical issue is this:

The frames of the windows of any vehicle in Arma2 are - that's my thesis ! - realisticly broad but yet the view is much better in real life: The human vision is able to somehow "thin out" hindering frames or other hindrances.

Indeed I am quite sure that noone in reality would dare to fly with such a bad view as the vehicles show in Arma2 (and other games) where there is no correction of "reality".

Whereas - don't get me wrong - I only want it to "look" real but it seems to be inevitable to "correct" a two-dimensional-monitor-picture to get a realistic view ... any ideas ?

[Rasa-be 10]

First person perspective already simulates peripheral vision by condensing 180 degrees of view into your monitor.....

[galzohar 31]

First person perspective already simulates peripheral vision by condensing 180 degrees of view into your monitor.....

It actually doesn't. But you can adjust your FOV in your settings file to something like that if you really wanted to (it'd look ugly though).

The problem with car windows is mostly that the sizes of vehicles (and buildings) seems to be disproportional compared to the size of our soldiers.

[mcarma 19]

Hum ... 3rd-person view ... just like in the real world, our eyes following behind and above us. lolol

[Herbal Influence 10]

Hum ... 3rd-person view ... just like in the real world, our eyes following behind and above us. lolol

Well ... the 3rd-view-problem has been discussed a lot about and your remark has been discussed already in the first post: If you like the "tunnel-view" it's your choice.

I would like to discuss the topic of unrealistic amount of windowframes and other viewing hindrances in vehicles whereas the hindrances themselves might be of exact scale.

Though they are of exact scale - no realworld pilot would fly the ah-64 in a war situation with the view it has at present because of the reduced view.

That's my thesis.

[celery 8]

I don't quite understand the German convention of calling first person shooters "egoshooters". It just sounds wrong and in this context it can and has clearly been associated with games that are meant to stroke one's bulging ego.

And no, I will not allow 3rd person egoactiongameview in most of my deathmatches because it's simply unfair to peek around corners and obstacles.

[galzohar 31]

And no, I will not allow 3rd person egoactiongameview in most of my deathmatches because it's simply unfair to peek around corners and obstacles.

I think that sums this thread up perfectly ;)

[Zipper5 74]

I think disabling third person is fine for infantry, but I personally find that it makes vehicle usage much better with it enabled. Guess it wouldn't be hard to force such a condition using a simple camera-switch script.

[galzohar 31]

ACE already has a module that disables 3rd person only when not in a vehicle. Though I find that for many vehicles the more difficult use should be there from a realism point of view. For example tank drivers IRL can't see jack either. But the lack of mirrors in simple cars and jeeps is a bit of a limitation, but really only causes unrealistic problems when you need to reverse. I'd still rather have it off so all the armored vehicles don't completely break realism-wise, since the limited FOV of the crew is an important part of armored vehicle simulation.