3rd person versus Egoshootermode

[An Fiach 10]

If Ground Branch ever gets released it might live up to the hype.

@mrklor, do you have a point?

[whisper 0]

What on earth does 3rd PoV gives you exactly that makes it real? Double tap Keypad-minus and enjoy a better FoV, why would you need to permit cheat to have that?

You don't get better awareness with 3rd PoV, you THINK you get, and the little more you have, in fact you shouldn't have it, it's seeing above your head that gives you more info that you'd have IRL (your so awesome 3rd sense included) and which gives you this impression of better SA.

If it's a question of FoV, difference between the 1st person viewpoint and 3rd person viewpoint is so tiny compare to the area before you that it's not worth it. + you have enlarged FoV with double keypad-minus.

If it's a question of seeing behind you, same, you're what? 1.5 m behind your personna? So useless that it's not worth the irrealistic cheat potential

It's a question of "something else"? Tell you what, the something-else is your viewpoint being higher. Meaning it gives you sight of what you'd never see IRL. It doesn't compensate for any screen limitation, because screen limitation is FoV, and 3rd PoV FoV advantage is nearly zero. It's no compensation that you see higher, it's unreallistic advantage.

This exclusively for infantry.

Vehicles, and especially open ones (cars, choppers) are another matter. I don't really see why 3rdPoV should be mandatory for tank driving, for example, as IRL the driver doesn't have perfact outside vision, far from it, and the game renders this impression quite well. But that's a bit understandable for choppers

Continue using 3rd PoV (I didn't disable it on ping0), I'll continue using and abusing it :) To me, the "limitation compensation" for infantry is only an excuse, truth is, used with a lil bit of brain, it's a huge tool, but unreallistic one

[demowhc 10]

I normally love FPS view in games, however in ArmA2 I feel it is poorly done, movement etc feels terrible.. and on top of that the frame rate is so poor it makes it feel even worse.. so in ArmA2 I prefer 3rd person mode and tbh if it wasnt for the option of 3rd person I doubt I would have stuck with it long enough to find out what a great game it is.

[Noraf 0]

Well, it's stated before in this tread, quite some posts ago, that when playing ( unless you're on merc settings i guess ;) ) you have thise dotts on the edges of the screen that helps you when it coems to notice things you easier would have done irl than ingame.

That a lot of ppl do not notice those, i thnik is another story ;)

[whisper 0]

I normally love FPS view in games, however in ArmA2 I feel it is poorly done, movement etc feels terrible.. and on top of that the frame rate is so poor it makes it feel even worse.. so in ArmA2 I prefer 3rd person mode and tbh if it wasnt for the option of 3rd person I doubt I would have stuck with it long enough to find out what a great game it is.

How is movement different in 1st and 3rd person view?

The difference is in headbob absent from 3rd person view, and if I'm not mistalen, at least some of the blur effects.

2 things that you can disable if you haven't already done so. See headbob option in the Game Option , and postprocess to off in the advanced Video Options

Hope this helps

[Mojo 0]

You say cheat-like, I say equal qualities as the AI :D

I guess... but 1) I don't think the AI are all that brilliant, definitely not as cunning as a human player and 2) I seldom play with AI any more, I prefer PvP. SO, it is an opinion, just like you own. :) This thread has circular qualities to it, as I said before (ironic), the 2 sides just don't seem to be able to locate a compromise

So, create your own, or locate a server that allows 3rd person, you wont like my servers.

[bhaz 0]

I prefer to play with 3rd person forced off, I can't count the number of times 3rd person view has saved me, where I could see over or around something that couldn't be seen through 1st person, followed by a couple of "how the fuck did you know" grenades over a wall.

The problem is whenever it isn't forced off, I tend to use it anyway, even though I feel it's cheating, guess it's a matter of balance.

[Pouk 10]

I never play in 3rd person, even when everybody else around do, I just can't, It feels to me like total spoil of a game, which supposed to be wat simulator. But I just bought TrackIR and it make first person little easier.

[Yoma 0]

I don't quite understand the whole debate:

BIS allready made 3rd view an option. Clearly the different opinions on this forum indicates that they made the best possible decision on the issue: they made it an option that can be set by the server admin.

That leaves people with all options:

-play with it (on a server that sports it)

-play without it (on a voluntary basis or restricted by server)

There is really not much more they can do unless you want them to enrage people by enforcing either one of both options.

I think this debate is... a useless waste of time.

[Flightster 10]

I think people should be able to play how they want to play, be it in 1st or 3rd person.. I find the 1st person in this game to be somewhat restricting and difficult, mainly because you need to use different buttons to actually get the "awareness" that you already have in 3rd person.

Besides, I don't think anyone really has the right to force a player into playing like they want that player to play either.. Everyone should be able to play in the fashion that they are most comfortable with, IMO

[Yoma 0]

I think people should be able to play how they want to play, be it in 1st or 3rd person.. I find the 1st person in this game to be somewhat restricting and difficult, mainly because you need to use different buttons to actually get the "awareness" that you already have in 3rd person.

Besides, I don't think anyone really has the right to force a player into playing like they want that player to play either.. Everyone should be able to play in the fashion that they are most comfortable with, IMO

Someone that pays hard cash for hosting a decent server has every right to play with whatever settings/options/rules/blabla they want to.

If you don't like the server's rules/settings, go find another or host your own.

Surely there will be some server out there that plays with the mindset you are after. Just don't expect the whole world to live by YOUR rules or standards.

[Herbal Influence 10]

I don't quite understand the whole debate:

(...)

I think this debate is... a useless waste of time.

I will help you to understand!:)

And I think you don't critize me (and all the other posters and readers) in earnest for opening this thread but want to express that you really don't understand it. For otherwise you sure know that the easiest way is to ignore what others are interested in in forums, i.e. certain threads.

If you look at the "hitting rate" of this thread you sure realize that people are interested in for you did call a "waste of time".:confused:

My point was to make clear that the rumour spreaded that only egoshooterview is the "real combat mode" and 3rd person view is for noobs only.

This thread has shown - in several posts - that that is not so.

In fact the egoshooterviewmode is in an important point most unreal - I won't repeat it all, but you can find it explained in this thread repeatedly.

Even by gamers who really did fight in war for years.

I go with you, that BI doesn't make no fault allowing both ways.

Nobody I know ("read") ever critized BI for it and I love the freedom BI gives to it's fans - we sure all think/feel that's the big reason for the succes of OF, AA1, AA2.

And I found another good reason for chosing 3rd view:

I already said, egoshooterview makes me seasick - somehow.

I found the second reason!

It's not only the unrealistic viewing angle (discussed above).

It especially happens when you simply run with your inf avatar lez say over a field.

The ups and downs of the avatar are nicely simulated.

And therefore your whole viewing field is shaking like it .... should.:bounce3:

But ... should it?

No.

Because in real life you concentrate on certain points with your eyes and you compensate that shaking with your eyes.

Again: Try it yourself while jogging through a park - which is most recommandable for mousepushers like we are.:p

It's like the cannon of a modern tank - as far as I know firstly done so with the German Leopard: it focusses on the target and the cannon sticks to it while the whole tank is shaking as the landscape is seldomly completely flat.

I do not say that BI should remove this natural shaking of the body nor the eyes - I am not critizising! ;) - because I remember games that completely removed it (wasn't that Doom?) and that feels unnatural too.

But - as I said and explained - it's not the normal way of "seeing" while running ... and I get seasick from it.

In fact, by now, I have no solution for this problem.

But it's another reason why egoshooterview is an somehow unrealistic mode - while I do not forget the "look behind walls" etc. - reasons given contra 3rd view.

ps:

Repeatedly it was said there would be some lighting spots at the rim of the monitor to simulate a broader view. I remember having once seen them. But only once - and never ever again. Perhaps somebody can give a hint, which settings show these points? Thx !

pps.

For those who do not want no debating on whether 3rd should be turned on/off I recommend the Oldfreakz-server - for OF, AA seems to be in work - though I am not a member of Oldfreakz: 3rd is ALWAYS on!

Edited July 16, 2009 by Herbal Influence
adding, that on Oldfreakz-Server 3rd is ALWAYS on

[galzohar 31]

I've already said in other threads the head bobbing is totally unrealistic, for the simple reason that shaking the monitor, when your brain is concerned, is a TOTALLY different effect than shaking your head IRL. Try it yourself. Luckily, we can turn head bob off though so it's no excuse for 3rd person.

[Herbal Influence 10]

I've already said in other threads the head bobbing is totally unrealistic, for the simple reason that shaking the monitor, when your brain is concerned, is a TOTALLY different effect than shaking your head IRL. Try it yourself. Luckily, we can turn head bob off though so it's no excuse for 3rd person.

LOL - though I am sure we do not need any EXCUSE for using the more real thing, the 3rd view, I would like to learn, how you can switch off the head bobbing?

I searched the forum but did not find a hint to that but discussions about whether head bobbing is more real than no-head-bobbing.

Thank you!

[whisper 0]

Options -> Game Options -> Headbob slider to zero

and forcing in every sentence you write your opinion like it was the ultimate truth won't help much. 3rd view being better is your opinion, not the ultimate truth

[Herbal Influence 10]

Thanx for the hint whisper!

But for the rest of your text: Should I say, I don't like you either? Forget it. I won't do that. For I know the truth. ;-))

[whisper 0]

Thanx for the hint whisper!

But for the rest of your text: Should I say, I don't like you either? Forget it. I won't do that. For I know the truth. ;-))

It's not about liking you or not. You're just pushing your propaganda in a not so subtle way, I was just warning

[Liability 10]

You only get to focus on anything in about a 120-90 degree field of view, the outside 40-80 degrees is motion and contrast detection. Even veteren mode offers the white bubbles on the screen edge to indicate a motion or contrast sensing, without highlighting it in the FOV.

Seeing over walls and around corners is game breaking for the most part, and definately more so than an artificially limited FOV. If you want 3rd person in PVP might as well turn on all the newbie level settings and get a massive boost to situational awareness, god knwo sI coudl use it some days when my team is sneaking up on an enemy I saw disappear behind a fenceline and I get them confused.

[Herbal Influence 10]

Yeah, I tested it. Some veteran mode offers those bubbles. The modes "below" veteran don't.:confused:

And thanx for the hint on the double tip on "-" on numpad.:o

Does work - and I hadn't expected that for in other modes or what it did only work momentarily: only as long as you press the button it zoomed out.

I could even find something following the tri-monitor idea which was posted above as a joke: If you switch to it in graphic options with having only one monitor - at least - you get an idead what a broader field of view (FOV) gives to you - even on ONE monitor screen. Sure it's all condensed or deformed - but maybe a way to solution: if the contortion would only be a the very rims of the monitor screen, it could be nice simulation of a real FOV.

[galzohar 31]

Does setting resolution to something like 5000X1000 increase your FOV? Or does it just stretch your FOV over 5000 pixels?

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

3rd person view is a bit unrealistic, but I think it's acceptable when playing against AI since they ignore grass and apparently some obstacles.

totally agree. If the AI would act in a more realistic manner then I could fully abandom 3rd person view.

Also, when running I get the famous motion sickness. I know this shaking is in fact realistic, but it is simply hard to take when having to run more than 400 metres across the country.

[Herbal Influence 10]

totally agree. If the AI would act in a more realistic manner then I could fully abandom 3rd person view.

Also, when running I get the famous motion sickness. I know this shaking is in fact realistic, but it is simply hard to take when having to run more than 400 metres across the country.

Nah - as explained above it's not real.

I was happy to learn from whisper (above) that you can change that in options.

[Herbal Influence 10]

Just to make it complete:

The stance-conscience-problem seems to be one more arguement for 3rd view.

You find it here:

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=80669

Don't tell me that the stance indicator is something you have in real life! ;-))

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

Nah - as explained above it's not real.

I was happy to learn from whisper (above) that you can change that in options.

you can get rid of the blur effect, but the screen still shakes like hell. And with a rather big screen I can assure you that even if you are used to offshore fishing then you can still get dizzy and motion-sickness from playing 1st person view.

[galzohar 31]

I have a stance indicator in my brain. Ask me what stance I am at and even with my eyes closed and ears plugged I will give you an instant answer (I'd need to somehow hear the question though).