What does ARMA 2 have that Operation Flashpoint 2 doesn't?

[LJF 0]

I reckon ArmA2 now has the greatest AI of all time. Yeah, many many many people keep saying it's terrible but if you look at them going through a town ... they lean! It really is quite good, the reason people keep saying they "cheat" is simply because the AI is cautious, it advances using leapfrogging (?) and covering all the axis of advance, so when you do find them, there is at least 1 gun pointed at you.

Dragon Sleeping is being made by CM ... does anyone remember their latest "sims?" ... GRID and DIRT ... ? Because ... they were like ... really realistic and awesome ... and CodeMasters wouldn't be in it for the money or anything would they? [end sarcasm]

That said however, I am really looking forward to OFP:DS

[jw custom 56]

the reason people keep saying they "cheat" is simply because the AI is cautious

So when AI prone and shoots you through grass, bushes and other foliage it's because it's cautious :confused:

Don't be blind there's a lot of work to be done on the AI :)

I'm gonna buy OPF: DR aswell, but i doubt it will be a match for ArmA II ;)

[LJF 0]

Yeah, it does do some pretty crazy stuff sometimes, they can have pretty uncanny abilities :D Overall though I'd say it's pretty brilliant when you consider what it does.

[jw custom 56]

Yeah, it does do some pretty crazy stuff sometimes, they can have pretty uncanny abilities :D Overall though I'd say it's pretty brilliant when you consider what it does.

Agree.

[rothy 0]

the things I like about ArmA2 is the ability to make mods/addons...

I like the USMC based theme of ArmA2 vs. the Army based themes of OFP and ArmA1 and I love that ArmA2 now has WOMEN! A big thumbs up for the civvies and also the ambiance in the game. Makes for more interesting and realistic game play IMO.

From what I hear, OFP2 won't have any civvies, (huge bummer) . I am still gonna get Dragon Rising when it comes out though. Also OFP2 looks like it also has a USMC based theme .

Wish both games had the CH-46 and CH-53 helicopters though since the Marine Corps still uses them.

[Sabrefox 0]

Bugs, Ctd's and Hookers.

This franchise has always come across as 'F*ck it, let them finish it.'

Always has more potential than any game involving military, but then the devs seem to throw the towel in 70% through it's development and release it.

Op Flash 2 is 'theme park' and Arma 2 is 'sandbox'. Op Flash 2 will have the 'bling' and hold your hand along the way, Arma 2 has the 'guts' and allows you more freedom in what you do.

It's just sandbox games shouldnt involve actually finishing the development yourself.

You shouldn't have to download addons for fundemental features that should already have been in the game in Arma 1.

Such an example is 'fast roping'. This should be available in any helicopter that transports troops with a suitable entry/exit point. As in an Action Menu option. This is one of hundreds of examples of what is still left to the community to bolt on to a 'finished product'.

Edited July 30, 2009 by Sabrefox

[LJF 0]

Bugs, Ctd's and Hookers.

I've only encountered major bugs in the campaign, and I'd suggest you ditch it in favor of the editor or MP. It's certainly not ArmA2's strong point:(

[Sabrefox 0]

For your information LJF, alot of customers have chronic CTD problems unrelated to specific parts of the game, anywhere from 5 mins to 40 mins they crash out.

You and I are some of the more fortunate ones, but both of my friends that I have nagged to come give this a go are at the end of their patience and have uninstalled Arma 2 already. And with zero updates on the progress of 1.03 it only makes matters worse.

A weekly update on the next patch would go a long way right now for them.

[LJF 0]

That's some pretty harsh CTD's right there, I never knew it was that bad for some people. Mine crashes from time to time but I haven't found it to be much of an issue.

Edit: Which is odd because in ArmA1 I had virtually no CTD's at all and the ones I did were definitely due to mods. A lot of the crashes in ArmA2 for me have been due to overclocking my CPU or seeing just how many AI I can get in there :D

[hoak 0]

Considering the ratio of ArmA II sales to the number of complaints, ArmA II is no more poorly behaved per-capita then any 'AAA' title from the SpamBuster FatAssPublishing market...

In fact, as a function of game features, volume of content, and capability, you're getting more in ArmA II then any five games EA, Ubi, or Activision turn loose, and issues as a function of game content, capability and feature volume in ArmA II is very, very low.

I'm not trivializing anyone's frustration that may be experiencing issues, I have them too, but being realistic BI is a company with an outstanding reputation for long term support, effective patches, and their games offer enormous bang for the buck if you're not looking for casual/passive neck-down entertainment...

And lastly, sadly, bug-stomping is a tedious process -- in far too many cases ending up as little more then 'idiot proofing' your product as an enormous number of issues are with messed up Windows installations, or really arcane system configurations...

:rolleyes:

[cadmium77 16]

I'm not going to write off OFP2 yet but it's turning out to be a terrible disappointment. The real clincher for me was the nasty tiny little maps with the red barrels of fuel that you have in Far Cry 2 and Crysis and Half Life. When everyone howled at them for it they sort of shook their heads and said "what? What's not to like about exploding red fuel barrels. All the games have them"

[Sabrefox 0]

I agree with you Hoak about the amount of 'features' compared ot other games, though this could have probably been achieved with just patching Operation Flashpoint for the last 8 years. That is what it feels like, the same game with a few meaty patches and most of these 'features' were in the original back in 2001.

I am not seeing anything 'ground braking' between the releases, Arma 2 could have really benefitted from a touch more 'game' than its predecessors.

And this is coming from me, someone who appreciates simulators over games, sandbox over theme park.

It still feels like BiS are releasing an updated set of tools for the community to make a game from.

Edited July 30, 2009 by Sabrefox

[Tincup 10]

BI is a company with an outstanding reputation for long term support, effective patches, and their games offer enormous bang for the buck if you're not looking for casual/passive neck-down entertainment...

I have been following this thread for sometime now, and I have been reluctant to jump into the conversation. I understand that there are people that have loyalty to one game or another, but come on! At some point you have to think outside the box you have become comfortable. The whole BI vs. CM thing is ridiculous, that argument has been hashed too many times. As far a BI's record for support, you are correct in saying they offer long term support. If you have played any of their games you will realize they have to. I would not confuse support with saving face. Don't get me wrong I play ARMA2 and I love the game, I see all the potential the game has just as Hoak has said. But ARMA2 shouldn't have been released this early given its state, this is basically a beta in a box, and we are the bug testers you spoke of. The troubleshooting forums should be all you need to look at to know that the game was far from a release ready build.

Now you take ARMA2 and put it into a comparison test with a game that the majority of us have not played. We have only seen clips and screenshots, and read post of forums and what not. There are a lot of opinions here that have been formed because of the CM BI debacle, and that is taking stupid to another level. That's how business works, there are good and bad deals like them or not.

I think it is a good idea to let the demo for OFPDR come out before you make any comparisons to ARMA2. I think you are going to be surprised with what OFPDR has to offer. Will it be the bug free, I doubt it, I am a realistic I have been on the gaming seen since the inception of the internet. But, I am not going to form an opinion without having a chance to play the game. So like I said before, put the petty stuff aside, and think outside the box.

[hoak 0]

I have been following this thread for sometime now, and I have been reluctant to jump into the conversation. I understand that there are people that have loyalty to one game or another, but come on! At some point you have to think outside the box you have become comfortable. The whole BI vs. CM thing is ridiculous, that argument has been hashed too many times.

As you are quoting my post: no where did I compare BI to CM, neither did I imply such a comparison; but I agree that the premise of the thread is stupid (see my closing remark). I do think some of your assumptions about BI do warrant comment though.

As far a BI's record for support, you are correct in saying they offer long term support. If you have played any of their games you will realize they have to. I would not confuse support with saving face.

Well said, and BI's patches have never given the appearance of being 'face saving' or token gestures.

Don't get me wrong I play ARMA2 and I love the game, I see all the potential the game has just as Hoak has said. But ARMA2 shouldn't have been released this early given its state, this is basically a beta in a box, and we are the bug testers you spoke of. The troubleshooting forums should be all you need to look at to know that the game was far from a release ready build.

Here I disagree, I do think BI needs more in the way of Public Relations and something along the linds of Community Management to properly represent their products, and keep expectations in line with what they are offering.

However, no Developer/Publisher is offering a game that goes as far as ArmA II does for sheer volume of features and capability. ArmA II offers more game content, modability, render capability, game features, editor features, openness, and of course scale realism in one box then anything else. In fact ArmA II has no real competitors and it will likely be a long time before any Developer/Publisher put as much in one game as is offered in ArmA II, if ever.

I'd stand by my 'five title comparison' that it would take any five realism titles -- adding their features and flaws to get parity and a fair comparison to ArmA II and the Development challenges it faces. All that said I'm sure ArmA II is an exercise in frustration and even disappointment for some that are used to more casual games.

But the bottom line on the thread of OFP2/ArmA II comparisons is a lot of people starting and trolling this thread, and others like it are very young OFP2 Fan, looking for a forum fight, attention and recognition they don't get from Mom and Dad...

:rolleyes:

Edited July 30, 2009 by Hoak

[MadCatChiken 10]

I'm probs gonna buy both, but OpFlash 2 has more gore. :) Supposed to be able to blow peoples limbs off and stuff. Which can kind of add the to the feel of war.

[nyran125 10]

lol thats a good way of going about it. Borrow or rent operation flashpoint dragon rising and buy Arma 2. So far the last 2-3 years of codemasters games havent even been worth a purchase from me since toca race driver 3. Grid was yawn, Dirt was awful (colin mcrae rallying ? where ? ), fuel was arcadey and useless. There is one game i may be interested in from codemasters coming out in 2010 is the next Formula 1 game. It very well may be my poistive turning point back to codies. If they stray away from the dirt and grid formats and go for simulation, F1 might be the next big Codemasters thing + what irritated me about codemasters that started making me stop playing thier games also,is they never really did anything for the colin mcrae series at all, they created DIRT?????? so that gives you a good indication of thier look at its franchises that they own, so for their future products you kind of know where they are heading, they generally just like to cater to action and porn fans :):):):).

On the other hand, Bohemia has built on a fantastic formula that is excruciatingly challenging and requires a massive learning curve that will bring you HUGE rewards if mastered and has also designed a better game because of it than any other war game to date with its massive amount of user friendly capabilities. Arma 2 you wont go wrong as far as longetivity, its endless, already this game in the first mission is awesome, HOWEVER its BUGGY as hell for mid range pc machines, And i should point out that its mainly mid range pc users that are generally complaining about the performance of the game, guys on you tube fighting with 700 or 1500 guys with 2 vid cards and 8 gb ram and quad core 4 processors on a field with no lagg arent complaining are they. Hopefully it will get less buggy as time goes on with patches and stuff, somehow, to support mid range pc's a bit better.

Or maybe we all just have to wait for next year's graphic card options, Or i have to buy a nividia 295 GTX2, i think ill wait for the next gen of Graphics card in a year or so i think :( (My pholosophy is if the game is running like shit dont buy the cards out now buy the ones the next year ,lol.

By the time codemasters brings out its ( all action , porn star, loads of limb bashing,blooded up arcade filled ) game, hopefully alot of the bugs in Arma 2 will be gone. Arma 2 is a buy for me, operation flashpoint dragon rises is a rent for me.

But then again OPF2 Dragon rising, could be AWESOME in the fun department, look at left 4 dead , 4 guys, lots of co-op, no realism, fun as hell and a must buy. OFP2DR might be a battlefield 2 , Crysis, Left 4 dead, cross breed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Edited July 30, 2009 by nyran125

[Tincup 10]

My post was not directed at you Hoak. I did however mention a comment you made. Each person here has expectations and there are various degrees of expectations. I am sure we all share a common thread, that being the love of a true tactical shooter. It just irritates me that there is a feud between these two games, almost like if you play one you required to bad mouth the other. I guess I am one of those old farts that have become a little more wise, and little more patient with age. I like to see a fair comparison, which is not what happening on either forums.

No matter which game you enjoy, whatever your gaming background, you have to admit comparing OFPDR to COD or BF2 is not realistic. The game play in those games vary tremendously. BF2 and COD are completely different. Just my opinion though....

Edited July 31, 2009 by Tincup

[hoak 0]

Yup, hence this post in this thread where things were sliding even further off the charts...

:butbut:

[hozer 10]

This is the kind of abject, weird, sick arcade-fantasy FanBoy swill that focuses on some bizarre aesthetic detail, at the expense of any rational discussion of what's actually important in 'tactical realism' i.e.: realistic to-scale game-play. Like the kids on the OFP2 forums that belive U.S. Marines always load up their assault rifles with tracers (because it's in the trailers), even though there are seven non-coms and a commissioned U.S. Marine officer telling them otherwise... This sort of thing has the OFP2 forums on a voyage past the bottom of the barrel IMHO, and that it's not constructively moderated is a sign of where that game is not headed...

Dismemberment is not in any way critical to defining realism where the priority is realistic tactical combat; not superficial, obscene, and histrionic gore. While it is true people do get dismembered on a modern battlefield, it happens a hell of a lot less then some demented mind that revels in this crap might hope for -- people tend to stay in one piece no matter how horrifically they're beat up by modern munitions, sorry to piss on your parade of gratitous sickness...

:mad:

While I agree with your first paragraph, your second is complete crap. Have you been involved in any real life conflicts involving "modern munitions"?. I highly doubt it, if not please don't comment about things you have no idea about.

[interox 10]

Hmm, all these opinions on how good/bad OPF2DR and its not even released. Why not buy both and play each to their strengths. A2 for depth and OPF2DR for a quick arcadey blast? I say arcadey because its the same release across all formats therefore it likely caters for console style gameplay.

Still waiting patiently for BIS to patch Arma2 to its full potential.

[nyran125 10]

hmmm im not so sure anymore. When i first played the editor i was like, yeah Arma 2 all the way(I still love that editor), this game is amazing. Then i played single player, with the crashes and CTD's, and problems. I think COdemasters OPeration flashpoint2 is going to be more playable on release because it HAS to be if its going on consoles. I think unfortunately there are going to be ALOT of people that are going to like OFP2 more than Arma 2 just simply out of performance.

If you have a BAND of Musicians that are AMAZING but cant play in time together , they sound awful, even though they are all good musicians, they will never make it, because they arent in time with one another. However another band can make bad music and arent very good musicians , but be very successful just purely because they are in time and sound in harmony with one another, together.

Arma 2 really should of come out Next year, because people that have never played operation flashpoint before or never played Arma will be very hesitant in going out straight away and buying another Bohemia product on release(Regardless of how good the game is). Call of Duty 4 is successful not because its very good or has any substance, multiplayer is pretty tactless, its successful because it WORKS when you buy it and you KNOW its going to work out of the box and do what you knew it would do when you bought it. You know that your computer will at least run it reasonably well for one thing. (call of duty 2, when it came out though couldnt be run properly, till the next generation of hardware came out , mind you) Call of duty 4 MW for some reason could be run on everyone's hardware, the engine was obviously catered for the currant generation of stuff and wasnt future proofed to much.

[p75 10]

hmmm im not so sure anymore. When i first played the editor i was like, yeah Arma 2 all the way(I still love that editor), this game is amazing. Then i played single player, with the crashes and CTD's, and problems. I think COdemasters OPeration flashpoint2 is going to be more playable on release because it HAS to be if its going on consoles. I think unfortunately there are going to be ALOT of people that are going to like OFP2 more than Arma 2 just simply out of performance.

If you have a BAND of Musicians that are AMAZING but cant play in time together , they sound awful, even though they are all good musicians, they will never make it, because they arent in time with one another. However another band can make bad music and arent very good musicians , but be very successful just purely because they are in time and sound in harmony with one another, together.

Arma 2 really should of come out Next year, because people that have never played operation flashpoint before or never played Arma will be very hesitant in going out straight away and buying another Bohemia product on release(Regardless of how good the game is). Call of Duty 4 is successful not because its very good or has any substance, multiplayer is pretty tactless, its successful because it WORKS when you buy it and you KNOW its going to work out of the box and do what you knew it would do when you bought it. You know that your computer will at least run it reasonably well for one thing. (call of duty 2, when it came out though couldnt be run properly, till the next generation of hardware came out , mind you) Call of duty 4 MW for some reason could be run on everyone's hardware, the engine was obviously catered for the currant generation of stuff and wasnt future proofed to much.

The budget for call of duty is abit different, mate.

[kozzy420 21]

I was excited for the new Operation Flashpoint, but not so much anymore. Why? It just doesnt look like a super realistic shooter like ARMA2 imo.

The graphics look nice and the coop with a friend looks fun. But to me it looks closer to Call Of Duty then Operation Flashpoint1 or ARMA2.

In short.. What does ARMA2 have that the new OF wont? It looks like ARMA2 will be far far more realistic gameplay wise, ARMA2 has a EDITOR, Much more user made content and in ARMA2 you can lean.

Just an honest opinion. Yes i will try the game when its out (ill try the demo and a few of my friends get every new shooter, so Ill try it there on first day. if its good Ill cop, if its average then I wont buy it)

Edited August 11, 2009 by kozzy420

[Kenjineering 10]

ARMA2 has a EDITOR, Much more user made content and in ARMA2 you can lean.

As far as I know OPF2 also has an editor.

OPF2 Pros:

1) This game's focus is on an army combat EXPERIENCE.

2) It will be grittier, bullets landing around you feel heavy and deadly, smoke is darker and denser. Smoke for instance lingers around and actually looks like it will kill you if you breathed it in.

3) The damage to vehicles seems to be represented better in the game.

4) A lot of variation in soldier faces.

5) Will most likely be more stable with less bugs.

6) Radio commands aren't stilted sounding English.

7) In the campaigns, if you blow up a building in earlier missions, it will remain blown up for the rest of the campaign.

8) Will most likely (due to it's more FPS style) be more popular across a wider range of the gaming market.

OPF2 Cons:

1) Doesn't appear to be as much of a war simulator.

2) Doesn't appear to have high command and all those juicy features that ARMA2 has.

3) ARMA2 has a nice head bob when you run + your gun moves around a lot(very nice). OPF2's gun just wiggles like quake and COD4.

4) You can't be as tactical as with ARMA2.

5) May not develop such an enthusiastic modding community.

ARMA2 Pros:

1) This game's core focus is that of army combat SIMULATION.

2) The player has a range of different play options. They can be a grunt that just follows AI orders or they can go all the way to being the top officer that directs units across the battlefield.

3) Head bob + leaning + Track IR + First person running animations.

4) I speculate that ARMA2's radio system will be a lot more complex since OPF2 will also be released on the consoles.

5) You can conduct yourself in game in the same manner you would if you were actually there in the real combat environment and expect it to work.

6) Devs have awesome accents.

ARMA2 Cons:

1) There is a slight gamble that your machine will struggle to run it because of relatively poorer optimization.

2) OPF2 will most likely be less buggy.

4) Special effects will most likely be slightly worse than in OPF2 (smoke etc).

5) OPF2 might have better physics.

6) It's market is more of a niche. This is only a con for someone outside of that niche.

Edited August 11, 2009 by Kenjineering

[p75 10]

I would say, just enjoy both titles, you can't judge its book by its cover, meaning unless you have a copy right now, all the pros and cons are worthless. You can or can not have all features in the world. It is how they are executed.

What I like in OFP2 sofar, as seen in the videos, are the effects like smoke, real FLIR (missing this big time in current ARMA2 built)...., but I'm sure we'll have those in ARMA 2 also.

If OFP2 will be less buggy and the editor/mod support is good, we might see a big shift...especially those who have big problems running ARMA2 now.

In all I like ARMA2 alot, think it is about as good as any game can get.

I think BIS should have a close look at some of the things OFP2 does and ARMA2 doesn't and incorporate them and go beyond. To be ahead the of competion sort to speak.