ARMA 2 Micro AI Thread

[4 IN 1 0]

@mr.g-c

is it possible to creat a simple video showing the brain washed AI with basic mission editing in mind?

[walker 0]

Hi all

4 IN 1 have you got ArmA II?

Kind Regards walker

[funnyguy1 0]

Yeah the AI is really good...

@the first vid: Wow, congratz. You just found a bug.

@the second one: wtf? what's wrong is the way you play the mission...

I remember AI using rifles against tanks in ArmA, or at least tanks firing the MG instead of their main guns at other tanks. It was fixed.

Edited June 2, 2009 by funnyguy1

[st!gar 3]

I put these two videos together for you guys that wanted to see it in action. Simple videos so don't laugh.

All I did was put USMC VS OPFOR Rebels with a search and destroy Waypoint and Combat action.

First video is of a Forest Battle you all wanted to see.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybT3e5eFFOY

2nd is of a In town battle

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GnQ2KN5BlYc

You make your own decision of what you think of the ai.

Thank you! Thank you, thank you, thank you!

Quick question, though... in the first video, when in the forest, I saw soldiers running from tree to tree in over, but I never saw them actually leaning. I know they can lean from house corners when in towns, but can they also lean from trees in forests?

Thanks in advance. You're awesome.

[malkuth 0]

Thank you! Thank you, thank you, thank you!

Quick question, though... in the first video, when in the forest, I saw soldiers running from tree to tree in over, but I never saw them actually leaning. I know they can lean from house corners when in towns, but can they also lean from trees in forests?

Thanks in advance. You're awesome.

I have not seen them lean in the woods yet. Don't think they have to really. Trees only really cover you if your like straight on with the enemy anyway.

[mr reality 0]

The major thing that stood out in the forest vid was the bird singing. There's a war going on, and the birds are all happily minding there own business.

I understand the sounds are for immersion, but that immersion is instantly killed when they still sing when all hell breaks loose.

Also woodland combat will never be a strong point of ArmA (strange considering the amount of trees on chernarus). There is just too much to calculate to make any bot effective. They run around, back and forth like headless chickens. You would have to micro manage your squad to survive that battle with realistic casualties.

Memories from ArmA 1 remind me how insanly impossible some of the firefights were when fighting in woodland. Your AI squad leader would tell you to target a selected enemy, but you could never see it. He would then send his squad to there deaths, one by one, telling them to engage.

A prime example of this is when your squad has an AT soldier. If enemy armour is detected, he sends the poor guy to his death.

Can somebody tell me if any of these issues are improved.

[f2k sel 164]

If one of the unit is injured and carn't walk do they still follow you around forever?

[Deadly Rakkasan 0]

I didnt mean crosshairs.

I meant crosshairs popping up as soon as you hit someone, indicating a hit.

Which is just retarded.

This is what i mean:

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d94/Nimsky/OFP2_hit_feedback.jpg

http://community.codemasters.com/forum/showpost.php?p=5246876&postcount=24

[Scrub 0]

The major thing that stood out in the forest vid was the bird singing. There's a war going on, and the birds are all happily minding there own business.

I understand the sounds are for immersion, but that immersion is instantly killed when they still sing when all hell breaks loose.

Also woodland combat will never be a strong point of ArmA (strange considering the amount of trees on chernarus). There is just too much to calculate to make any bot effective. They run around, back and forth like headless chickens. You would have to micro manage your squad to survive that battle with realistic casualties.

Memories from ArmA 1 remind me how insanly impossible some of the firefights were when fighting in woodland. Your AI squad leader would tell you to target a selected enemy, but you could never see it. He would then send his squad to there deaths, one by one, telling them to engage.

A prime example of this is when your squad has an AT soldier. If enemy armour is detected, he sends the poor guy to his death.

Can somebody tell me if any of these issues are improved.

Yes. The AI rarely goes alone, unless there is no other option. There is a 'flocking' sense to it. They seem to gravitate toward one another and the local conflict. My experience is the AI in woodland, in particular, go from tree to tree. They can quickly peek, shoot and get back in cover. If suppressed, they can wait for an opportunity to return fire. I am actually feeling a bit of camaraderie in some battles. They lay fire and tell you to 'move up, I gotcha covered'. And they do.

[froggyluv 2136]

Well I officially deleted Arma off my HD today (20+gigs), and feel like I have finally awoken from that AI nightmare. The last time I actually played was one of the large MP coops with some guys that seemed pretty serious, so I took the role of tank gunner. When we reached the HQ area of one of the cities, their was literally 30+ enemies just standing around to be shot, maybe a few ran aimlessly not knowing what to do against this tank. Well I killed maybe 85% of them and then called it a night and a game. Bring on the new!

The micro-AI in Arma2 is really the missing piece to the AI puzzle AFAIC. It just didn't work when guys couldn't distinguish being behind a tree and sorta of being 'around' the tree -huge difference! I just ran similar tests of driving a tank in an enemy occupied village and almost the whole squad ran for some sort of cover and I took enemy AT fire from multiple directions. One guy repeatedly dropped in the middle of the road everytime, but overall, worlds apart.

I really like these logic module and I pray (maybe pay) that they keep releasing them as well as what guys in FFN and perhaps SLX can do with this sweet foundation.

-hint: A clear house module would just make me weepy

Edited June 2, 2009 by froggyluv
sentimental dreamyness

[NoxNoctum 10]

If BIS can get rid of the bugs and make the AI consistently good (I've been blown away by some vids) and just polish the game in general this could be a big hit, and garner a lot of attention from the mainstream game media.

Edited June 2, 2009 by NoxNoctum

[fabrizio_t 58]

Hi there,

i've finally get my copy of ARMA2, had it patched and played a bit.

Overall i think ARMA2 AI is a major step in the right direction, since it features suppressive fire, better group coordination and basic covering mechanics.

Even at the current out-of-the-box state, with many flaws, ARMA2 AI is significantly better than ARMA AI.

Also i think that things that now don't work CAN be fixed.

My personal compliants list / wishlist about AI is actually comprehends the following:

GAME BREAKING ISSUES

--------------------

1) AI can still walk through some buildings;

2) AI units sometimes get stuck and run in endless circles when getting very near to some buildings. Since now AI units tend to move covering each other, the stuck/unresponsive men make the group stop to wait them.

3) AI pretty retarded in driving vehicles / helis / planes. I've seen vehicles ram each other and units overrun ...

4) AT units still useless, you never can rely on their effort when needed.

OTHER MAJOR ISSUES

--------------------

1) Sometimes AI can't react quickly enough to threats, especially when caught under fire. In that case they tend to stand still and spend quite some time to acknowledge the threat and simply take their aim. That's an old ARMA issue that still pops up.

2) Sometimes AI units tend to spread individually too much on terrain and lose group cohesion, vanyfing the benefits of the mutual covering feature.

3) Suppression fire is way too precise, even for lowly skilled units, it needs to be less concentrated. ARMA2 AI is luckily not a crack shot on aimed fire any more, but it can take you out in a split-second at 200-300m through suppression fire

4) on streets in a urban environment AI seems not being capable to see threats distant (roughly) more than 200m with a clear line of sight. Again an old and documented ARMA issue.

5) Why AI tends NOT entering buildings when looking for cover ? Why they can't use building windows to take concealed fire ?

6) When infantry is fighting armored vehicles units SHOULD be able to automatically find and grab AT weapons from corpses

ARMA2 is really a "rough diamond", now it deserves some proper fixes to become a truly masterpiece.

Edited June 3, 2009 by fabrizioT

[fabrizio_t 58]

Thank you! Thank you, thank you, thank you!

Quick question, though... in the first video, when in the forest, I saw soldiers running from tree to tree in over, but I never saw them actually leaning. I know they can lean from house corners when in towns, but can they also lean from trees in forests?

Thanks in advance. You're awesome.

Yes they can lean from trees.

[mr.g-c 6]

Hi there,

i've finally get my copy of ARMA2, had it patched and played a bit.

Overall i think ARMA2 AI is a major step in the right direction, since it features suppressive fire, better group coordination and basic covering mechanics.

Even at the current out-of-the-box state, with many flaws, ARMA2 AI is significantly better than ARMA AI.

Also i think that things that now don't work CAN be fixed.

My personal compliants list / wishlist about AI is actually comprehends the following:

GAME BREAKING ISSUES

--------------------

1) AI can still walk through some buildings;

2) AI units sometimes get stuck and run in endless circles when getting very near to some buildings. Since now AI units tend to move covering each other, the stuck/unresponsive men make the group stop to wait them.

3) AI pretty retarded in driving vehicles / helis / planes. I've seen vehicles ram each other and units overrun ...

4) AT units still useless, you never can rely on their effort when needed.

OTHER MAJOR ISSUES

--------------------

1) Sometimes AI can't react quickly enough to threats, especially when caught under fire. In that case they tend to stand still and spend quite some time to acknowledge the threat and simply take their aim. That's an old ARMA issue that still pops up.

2) Sometimes AI units tend to spread individually too much on terrain and lose group cohesion, vanyfing the benefits of the mutual covering feature.

3) Suppression fire is way too precise, even for lowly skilled units, it needs to be less concentrated. ARMA2 AI is luckily not a crack shot on aimed fire any more, but it can take you out in a split-second at 200-300m through suppression fire

4) on streets in a urban environment AI seems not being capable to see threats distant (roughly) more than 200m with a clear line of sight. Again an old and documented ARMA issue.

5) Why AI tends NOT entering buildings when looking for cover ? Why they can't use building windows to take concealed fire ?

6) When infantry is fighting armored vehicles units SHOULD be able to automatically find and grab AT weapons from corpses

ARMA2 is really a "rough diamond", now it deserves some proper fixes to become a truly masterpiece.

Excellent summary!

The AI has a lot of issues, yes... do you mind maybe posting sharing it in the bugtracker?

http://dev-heaven.net/projects/cis/issues

Thanks!

[fabrizio_t 58]

Hi mr.g-c,

i've posted those issues onto the bugtracker and confirmed there some of the issues posted by you..

I strongly encourage anybody to register there and to post, confirm and/or vote any AI issues, so that we can hope they will be eventually addressed with high priority.

Thx for your efforts.

Edited June 3, 2009 by fabrizioT

[rasdenfasden 12]

3) Suppression fire is way too precise, even for lowly skilled units, it needs to be less concentrated. ARMA2 AI is luckily not a crack shot on aimed fire any more, but it can take you out in a split-second at 200-300m through suppression fire

Always remember that a decent player is just as, if not more accurate than the bots when they "suppress". Having them spray more than a player doesn't make sense. The concept of suppression is to scare the enemy so that they can't fight back, so good accuracy is a big part of it. If bullets are going all over the place and the chance of actually getting hit is low, then why take cover from them?

Edited June 3, 2009 by RasdenFasden

[fabrizio_t 58]

Hi RasdenFasden,

i've seen AI use suppression fire against moving units and placing rounds well into a radius of roughly 50-60cm at 200m distance. Needless to say, at least in a game, such a precision is equivalent to a well aimed shot, making the whole point of having suppression fire a nonsense.

Caring about gameplay more than about reality in this case, i think more dispersion is needed at a distance, for sake of good firefights.

I respect your opinion anyway.

Cheers.

Edited June 3, 2009 by fabrizioT

[charliereddog 9]

Is this bug tracker actually used by BIS? If not there's not a real lot of point is there?

[whisper 0]

Is this bug tracker actually used by BIS? If not there's not a real lot of point is there?

Yes, you can see Suma & co posting there, asking for files etc...

[NoxNoctum 10]

Can we see more comments about the AI in here? I want some more opinions, vids etc. if possible please. Maybe some more vids from a bird's eye view (if possible)? There are the ones where it's easiest to tell what exactly is going on.

I'm especially curious about the effects (if any) of suppressing fire on AI. Will they shrink behind cover when under withering machine-gun fire?

Edited June 4, 2009 by NoxNoctum

[call_911 10]

I've read many comments here and there and i still can't figure how ARMA2 AI compares to ARMA AI.

Were "micro AI", "centimeter" precision movements, suppression fire simply overhyped marketing claims or there is something really better in ARMA2 in terms of AI behviour?

What about usage of cover ?

What about AI groups communication and coordination ?

What about urban combat behaviour ?

Is friendly AI still useless i supporting the player ?

Can AI finally drive vehicles reliably ?

Please debate here.

1. yes

2. yes

3.unsure

4." "

5.from what I've so far yes

[charliereddog 9]

Ah, right. Sorry, I thought is was some individual initiative.

[zenith777 0]

Can we see more comments about the AI in here? I want some more opinions, vids etc. if possible please. Maybe some more vids from a bird's eye view (if possible)? There are the ones where it's easiest to tell what exactly is going on.

I'm especially curious about the effects (if any) of suppressing fire on AI. Will they shrink behind cover when under withering machine-gun fire?

Well it looks like AI is actually worse at driving trucks than in ArmA...

I ordered 5 trucks to drive 2 km, and 2 of them had combat mode stay aware and others had safe. There were no enemies nearby. None of them could drive straight road without zig-zagging like crazy. 2 of the trucks got stuck to a tree and one drove into a lake. Only 1 truck managed to get to the destination.

The last truck did drive into a forest and fell upside down. And I skill was set to 1.0 custom.

But on the other tasks AI is actually alot better. Tho they still are kinda easy to take out in the open area, because they don't find any cover if there is no buildings/trees nearby.

Also now AI lands excatly to a spot it is ordered to land with choppers.

[maddogx 13]

But on the other tasks AI is actually alot better. Tho they still are kinda easy to take out in the open area, because they don't find any cover if there is no buildings/trees nearby.

Well, that's not exactly the AI's fault is it? ;)

And they are still harder to kill in open areas than the ArmA1 AI. Those would just drop to the ground or run somewhere in a straight line. The Arma2 AI at least run in zig-zags, making them very hard to hit sometimes.

[GLeek 10]

Well it looks like AI is actually worse at driving trucks than in ArmA...

I ordered 5 trucks to drive 2 km, and 2 of them had combat mode stay aware and others had safe. There were no enemies nearby. None of them could drive straight road without zig-zagging like crazy. 2 of the trucks got stuck to a tree and one drove into a lake. Only 1 truck managed to get to the destination.

The last truck did drive into a forest and fell upside down. And I skill was set to 1.0 custom.

But on the other tasks AI is actually alot better. Tho they still are kinda easy to take out in the open area, because they don't find any cover if there is no buildings/trees nearby.

Also now AI lands excatly to a spot it is ordered to land with choppers.

ho my gawd