USMC out gunned in the air

[HOPEnSPIRIT 10]

Mi-24D

The Mil Mi-24 (NATO reporting name: Hind) is a Russian-made large helicopter gunship also capable of a low-capacity troop transportation. The Mil Mi-24P (NATO reporting name: Hind-D) is a more advanced version of the original Mi-24 designed primarily as a weapons platform.

UH-1Y

The UH-1Y Venom is an American medium-size multipurpose utility army helicopter. It is equipped with two external Mk66 70 mm rocket stations and two 7.62 mm miniguns. The UH-1Y is able to carry up to 3 tons of cargo or up to 10 passengers. It can provide close air support missions as well as transportation or reconnaissance.

Give us one of these...

AH-64

The AH-64 Apache is a four-blade, twin-engine attack helicopter with reverse-tricycle landing gear, and tandem cockpit for a crew of two. The Apache was developed as Model 77 by Hughes Helicopters for the United States Army's Advanced Attack Helicopter program to replace the AH-1 Cobra. First flown on 1 October 1975, the AH-64 features a nose-mounted sensor suite for target acquisition and night vision systems. The main weapon system is a 30 mm M230 Chain Gun carried between the main landing gear, under the aircraft's belly. The AH-64 also carries a mixture of AGM-114 Hellfire and Hydra 70 rocket pods on four hardpoints mounted on stub-wing pylons. The AH-64 also features double- and triple-redundant aircraft systems to improve survivability for the aircraft and crew in combat, as well as improved crash survivability for the pilots.

Edited May 13, 2009 by HOPEnSPIRIT

[nodunit 397]

The AH-64A and D are not Marine aircraft, besides they have the AH-1Z.

[mr_centipede 31]

maybe because the USMC dont use AH-64?... besides, where's the fun when the good guys have all the firepower and trample the bad guys with a sneeze?

much more fun if the good guys are badly equiped but better trained and in the end crush the bad guys under all odds... make good headline in the news too i might say...

[noamles 0]

you seem to be forgetting the AH-1, which is the USMC attack helicopter. you need to compare that to the hind.

[HOPEnSPIRIT 10]

you seem to be forgetting the AH-1, which is the USMC attack helicopter. you need to compare that to the hind.

Not forgetting anything;

ArmA:

USMC = AH-1Z

SLA = KA-50

ArmAII:

USMC = ? (no new attack helicopter)

Multifactions = MI-24D

Even though the UH-1Y is an all rounder the Hind just looks awesome, as if it needs an Apache to go against it.

[-)rStrangelove 0]

I thought the KA-50 is the counterpart for the Apache. Hind is like a flying bus with rockets, like the Blackhawk. :D

[=wfl= sgt bilko 10]

In ArmA2 Rotary Wing vehicle section I see a Super Cobra and a Huey with hydra rockets.

Surely that'd balance out Hind and KA-52?

[celery 8]

You use each of those helicopters differently, they can't be compared that easily.

[An-225 0]

What can the Apache or Longbow do that the AH-1Z cannot? This is not a detailed flight simulator - avionic upgrades have little use. The Longbow's radar will be redundant.

AH-1 - Hydra, AIM-9, Hellfire, M197

AH-64 - Hydra, AIM-9, Hellfire, M230

The difference is, one is a lot uglier than the other and is painted green.

The KA-52 is not as capable as the Apache or the Hind due to its semi-fixed cannon.

[nodunit 397]

more responses then thread needs...

also the AH-64D doesn't use AIM-9's.

There are differences between the AH-64D and AH-1Z but thats too technical for this thread.

Edited May 13, 2009 by NodUnit

[thesun 14]

Hind doesn't have any AA capability so i wouldn't say the USMC are outgunned. It more or less one on one (AH-1/Ka-52) situation.

[max power 21]

The factions aren't completely symmetrical so I don't think comparing one helicopter vs. another is really fruitful.

[NoRailgunner 0]

Such comparisons leading to nowhere - reminds me of two little boys playing cards and comparing the specifications of planes: "my plane has got a wso seat - it must be better than your single-seat JSF" :biggrin_o:

Imho "balancing" should be more depending on mission designers "combat knowledge" + pilot/gunner skills of player or AI.

Btw the Cobra and Hind are able to carry diffferent weapons and missiles - including air-to-air missiles.

Cross fingers that BIS developed a "weapon menu" for all kind of military aircraft.

[wipman 1]

Hi, i don't see what's the problem with the OPFOR vs BLUFOR choppers, this is how the life

is; and as far as i know, the Hind was developed to be a counter part of the AH-1 Cobra

but thinking in the soviet needs and way of act, it has suffered various upgrades to match

the todays needs, same for the AH-1; but again... the eastern countrys carry a different

kind of war, the tactics and strategy as the resources in the field are different. That's how

it's... it's not a thing that ones are underpowered and others are overpowered... it's just

the way that booth do the things; different. Let's C ya

[Squint 0]

I agree with the others who say this thread really is pointless. There have always been and will always be differences in force size and composition. After all, this is not a Quake or Unreal Tournament game where both sides are supposed to have the exact same weapons and equipment, just with blue or red colors.

Arma 2 will provide the tools, but it is up to mission makers to balance gameplay for their own missions.

[Alex72 1]

Realistic or semi realistic sims most often arent balanced in that way as the real world isnt. USA have the most gear in the world so if they decide to go somewhere that country will have to use its own gear. Will it be balanced gear wise? I think not.

Like Squint said: You balance a mission if you want to in the editor. Or you make a mission more realistic where you for example go in as USMC and attack maybe insurgents with stolen and black market baught old gear. It will not be balanced gear wise, but the insurgents can get help and thus have more men initially on the ground plus hidden shilkas in forests etc. It will all be good. Trust me.

[-GCA- Salah ad Din 10]

what we REALLY need is the Mi-28

[Opticalsnare 12]

We do,

http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=6595

[maturin 12]

As it stands, the Hind is terribly nerfed (engine quits after the first round hits your fuselage, and the AT rockets can't hit shit) and the Ka-52 fires auto-kill death lasers.

[metsapeikkoo 10]

What I would complain about would be the lack of flares and countermeasure-systems.

And the fact that you can take down any aircraft that is flying with pistol.

Killing pilot of Mi24, A10, or a Cobra, with just single Makarov, through the "oh so bulletproof glass", ONLY IN ARMA.

[maturin 12]

Have you done it before? I always seem to need two shots, one to break the glass.

[Uglyboy 10]

Do you realize that this is a 6 month old topic right?:confused:

[irR4tiOn4L 10]

First off, the only known Heli vs Heli battles were between Iranian Seacobras (AH-1, ingame) and Iraqi Hinds (Mi-24 and Mi-25, in game), and they were haphazard affairs that largely came down to who got the jump on who. So trying to counter helicopters with helicopters is foolish in the first place, and helicopters are not supposed to fight such battles.

Second of all, you are comparing apples and oranges. The AH1 and AH64 are more properly compared to the KA-50 and KA-52, not the Hind. The Hind has long been considered unique with no NATO equivalent as a very fast, very well armed flying tank uniquely capable of also carrying passengers, albeit making it large and not very agile. The fact that its heavily armed should not be mistaken for it being superior, as although this gives it a great close support capability, modern helicopters like the KA52 are better and most air forces, including the Russians, have chosen not to pursue such designs for various reasons.

If you cant quite find the equal of the Hind in the USMC arsenal it is because there is none quite like it. Only if you focus on firepower at the expense of other factors do you conclude it results in air superiority, however