31st NORMANDY MOD - WW2 Â -BETA RELEASE

[rip31st 98]

Quote[/b] ]Umbra44 -

After about 4 downloads, I still get the graphical error message as explained on the last page with the C47 and Sherman. The two vehicles that would excite me most

Is there any way around this?

I'm aware it's an ATI issue. Looking into it today. Are those the only two vehicles that cause the issues. I would try to spawn each vehicle separately ito the editor to see if there is more that have "ATI" issues.

I want everyone to have fun. So I will make this top priority to fix.

We did have several people playing yesterday on the german side without any problems. There were shermans present but not C47's.

[pitpines 1]

Another Comment:

Tanks (tested here: Panz.III) recognize the Howitzers earlier then vice versa. The Howitzers have no chance here

Greetz

Pit

[pitpines 1]

Quote (Col. Faulkner @ Nov. 05 2008,20:43)

Quote (Rip31st @ Nov. 05 2008,19:49)

-Pz3f reload time will be researched

10 to 15 rounds per minute for the 5cm KwK 37 L/60 and KwK 38 L/42 on the PzKpfw III

So roughly 5 seconds.

Ups, thats fast, like a carabiner  

[Col. Faulkner 0]

Ups, thats fast, like a carabiner  

That's the main benefit of a semi-automatic breech.

[cbfasi 4]

So only feedback that says its good is tolerated???

How about facts instead!

I became are of this thread, not the other discussion thread, if an item is released its expected it to be of reasonable quality... its lacking...

Idea is sound but the act of bringing it to public needs work.

Interesting to see criticism of my comments coming from the newer members who I suspect have no idea what it takes to carry out such a big project, and likely have not even released anything.

I do know what it takes to do BOTH, and I am proud of what I did.

Would you be proud to present say that Tiger as your model, most would not as anyone who looks at even a poor picture will see so many inaccuracies.

All things aside there is good points about this mod...

My view is based on what I see, I will not be commenting on how well they perform or sound as my knowledge on this side if minimal.

Defences, the sea wall looks right, the other defense positions look good except the R667 needs texture work.

Aircraft

Horsa Glider built to different standard that all the other aircraft, looks good, even down to framework for the canopy, but does have some transpancy on the mid to forward section of the fuselage skin.

Otherwise interesting challenges but you really need to look at drawings of the subjects. There are even holes in many of the models, they would do for lower lods but not primary visual lods.

Trucks

The German trucks look good, no fancy detail basic but look right and likely lower impact on frame rates, this helps in MP.

The Dodge looks close enough, although a bit more blocky than expected.

Boats

I wont comment here as I have detailed plans on the subject, in fact plans on all Allied WW2 landing craft.

Deployed Guns

88mm, very low poly, texture detail lacking, and colouration if really odd.

M101 colours look like well NATO standard US colours, pity NATO did not exist. Turns out the M101 was known as the M2A1 in WW2, right gun but you got modern colours on it, model also very low poly http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M101_howitzer

50mm Pak 38, doesn’t look too bad, good basic representation, texture colours right but model lighting needs lots of work.

Tanks

Jagdpanther, Model not too bad, but textures have the ‘depth’ overdone and colours also odd

M26 very blocky, many the important historical features lost due to this, particularly the curvature of the turret.

M4A4 Textures poor, not as block as others, hull hatches don’t follow hull and are hanging in air at forward section.

Panzer 3, poor texturing, turret cupola hanging in air when viewed from behind or side. Thankfully design is relatively blocky anyway.

Panzer 4, length seems wrong, turret ‘underside/interior’ can be seen from rear.

Panther, basic shape seems about right, lack of any detail though.

Tiger, hull has slope down sides getting wider to rear, well irl this is flat!!! All right had side road wheels are inside out, literally!! Tiger is one the few tanks that has overkill on reference material, no excuse for getting this one so wrong, even the really poor and cheap model kits don’t look this bad!

Just because I have been negative do not assume and ignore. What I have pointed out is ALL fixable, the processing of doing so will bring better skills and understanding.

I have looked back at my early models and realize how poor they were, just look at a real picture and be honest, does A look like B, if not, think 'what can I do to sort it'.

Low poly works great if the textures can do it justice, and poor textures can often be offset by good detail, but combing poor detailing and poor texture really shows a low quality and ‘do not’ care approach which I would think with a game as good as Armed Assault is far from the way to go.

[ShrubMiK 0]

Be a little careful with rate of fire calculations...you have to also ask how long the theoretical maximum rate of fire can be sustained. Loaders get tired.  Once ready rounds are fired, more rounds have to be retrieved from storage. That sort of thing.

CBFASI, it's all in the presentation. It is possible, as many have done, to point out problems and areas for improvement without coming across as playing the "I am a modelling god and you are not fit to lick my boots" card.

Be especially careful of claiming to speak for everybody else when it comes to what is considered acceptable.

Me, I'm downloading now. Expect to hear my complaints re. the relative strengths of units shortly

[cbfasi 4]

I publicly apologise if I came across as someone who might think they are a modelling god, actually I am far below it which is why since OFP I have released nothing, mainly as I do not feel it meets standards that seem to be expected, just look around at all the other add-ons around, my own work is not as good and I feel not worth release yet, others may think different. I was once right at the bottom, I too took a lot of flak to get to the standard which I reached, which unfortunately was rather specialist and a narrow subject of ships.

6 years of working on add-ons and the respective complaints received does give me a fair guide to what many have considered acceptable in the past, but then there are newer players who have a different standard of acceptable and your right I cannot speak for all.

I have also since read the first post of the add-on discussion before release and understand speed is primary in getting models out, and this is very very much aimed at setting up a basic but huge map to allow for mass mp playing with basic representations of recognized types of kit. Its a very different approach from what most are aiming for in Armed Assault Addons and I think this tainted my view on what I have seen.

[soul_assassin 1750]

imho: CBFASI, while being a bit harsh, has still made his criticism constructive so I think his points are valid.

Quote[/b] ]I have also since read the first post of the add-on discussion before release and understand speed is primary in getting models out, and this is very very much aimed at setting up a basic but huge map to allow for mass mp playing with basic representations of recognized types of kit. Its a very different approach from what most are aiming for in Armed Assault Addons and I think this tainted my view on what I have seen.

speed should not influence stability and playability

[Col. Faulkner 0]

Be a little careful with rate of fire calculations...you have to also ask how long the theoretical maximum rate of fire can be sustained. Loaders get tired.  Once ready rounds are fired, more rounds have to be retrieved from storage. That sort of thing.

This is not really relevant in the game, since you only get one

rate of fire and no crew fatigue (come to think of it you don't

even get a loader). Remember also that these are only 5cm

rounds, tiny little things compared to modern tank ammo, and

the Panzer III carried nearly a hundred of them (for the

L/42, which was most common). Two tanks captured by the

British in Tunisia were found to have totals of 185 and 182

rounds stowed (99 rounds in the stowage bins and the rest

just piled on the floor, to be exact).

Nevertheless, if it was me I'd put a figure nearer, or beyond,

the low (10) rpm end that the higher one.

[colligpip 0]

I think that you should repackage the mod with all the addons you know work and are stable... so what if its unbalanced for the warfare mission you could always make some of the other sides weapons cheaper for a bit. Who says war is fair.

It would be a kind of arms race untill they are all sorted properly.

at least we can play in a ww2 setting.

Have you seen the tiger thats just been released?

and another thing half the time your miles away from your target anyway before you see a puff of smoke or you are dead so all you need is a rough outline to play the game..

[madrussian 347]

Regarding all this model quality talk

imho, Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

I for one just love getting to play with WW2 units finally.  If the textuers and models get better as we go, then all the better.  For the moment, I am far more concerned with gameplay related adjustements and improvements (which based on Rip's recent post are being addressed).

And more of course more units!

Thanks Rip31st and company for all your hard work on the project.

[beton 2]

Im really happy that this mod has come out now...

thank you rip&co

im shure it will grow bigger and better by the time. And the better it becomes the more people might be willing to contribute their stuff to the mod.

My biggest concern about this mod is that there will be no servers hosting it with warfare or cti and we will only have small coop-games like most of the time in Arma.

[.kju 3244]

Instead of big words, better show some hard work yourself.

GJ Rip31st

[rip31st 98]

ATI users testing the beta have found:

-C47,Sherman, jagdpanther & pz4h cause CTDs' with ATI video cards. Looking into the issue.

Other issues today:

-Horsa glider is transparent, texture will be filled with a background color.

-pz3f turret coupola moves, should stay stationary with turret.

Let me remind folks the term beta means initial release. The intention here is to route out all the bugs and things people don't like in the form of feedback. I personally welcome the critisism as it lets me know how someone feels. Thats okay!

I knew from the get go some would be happy while others are not. I expected other mod makers to come in call this trash or garbage long before the release. That's just how some are. I'm not worried about those types as I take that with a grain of salt and you're never gonna please everyone.

People need to realize we aren't shooting for accuracy/detail of the equipment. I could do that for you but that would have meant the beta would have been a lot longer time coming then a little under 90 days. Try a year. lol. People have been anticipating WW2 for a long while in ArmA so there you are.

I think I have mentioned also I'm in NO contest whatsoever with any mod maker. I could care less. To me it doesn't matter who king of the mods is, or who is superior in respects to modeling. I'm here to provide fun for those who are on the same path as I am.

I think I stated that many times before we are going for playability. Someone said in a nutshell "You think you see a tank on the horizon...poof you are dead! Did you see that rivet on that tank out there? Exactly. Playability. That bout sums it all up.

We are working hard to resolve issues so those that can't play can. On that note there is only one mission yet for this mod running on my server. People are welcome to take the mission as do as they wish with it.

[rip31st 98]

OKAY just tracked down the ATI problem and will have a fix for you in a few hours.

[oldbear 390]

So it was an ATI problem ?

I am really enjoying your project, I hope you will go on

My only wishes is about smaller maps ... in order to have more uneven ground.

[rip31st 98]

So it was an ATI problem ?

I am really enjoying your project, I hope you will go on

My only wishes is about smaller maps    ... in order to have more uneven ground.

Yeah uploading the patch now.  The terrain is very flat.  I will add relief to it, more trees and objects.   You can probably expect to see a map patch in the next couple weeks.

As for smaller maps, we may look into that in the near future.  There are other maps the same size in work right now for phase 2.

ATI PATCH UP:

@31STWW2_path1 over at Armaholic

ATI users let me know if you have further problems.

[Aqu 0]

About the terrain details...

You said there is 1,000,000 object limit and you have already 500,000. Also the fact that the map is so insanely huge, I doubt you would even be able fill it completely I would say concentrate the objects in Normandy and around the Channel coast. I guess that's where most of the action is.

About the big map equals bad terrain detail problem. I was thinking if it would be possible to make kind of "hill objects". A big hump and cover it with the terrain textures so that it doesn't show to be an object. Then just config it to be indestructable and immobile and and make the roadway and paths LOD so that even AI can walk on it. Put maybe few rocks and trees on it. This way you could make partly underground buildings like cellars, shelters/bunkers and trenches.

[rip31st 98]

About the terrain details...

You said there is 1,000,000 object limit and you have already 500,000. Also the fact that the map is so insanely huge, I doubt you would even be able fill it completely I would say concentrate the objects in Normandy and around the Channel coast. I guess that's where most of the action is.

About the big map equals bad terrain detail problem. I was thinking if it would be possible to make kind of "hill objects". A big hump and cover it with the terrain textures so that it doesn't show to be an object. Then just config it to be indestructable and immobile and and make the roadway and paths LOD so that even AI can walk on it. Put maybe few rocks and trees on it. This way you could make partly underground buildings like cellars, shelters/bunkers and trenches.

It is possible. The R667 bunker is a small example of it. The max size for an object like that wouldn't be very big. Maybe 100 meters square. But you could make a series of models and place them on the map. The map will have relief added to it. That means means alot more hills and valleys.

[Mayhem_210 0]

One thing that bothers me is Omaha Beach.

What are those Ortego-like wierd buldings on the beach?

The beach should be empty.

And why the beach is green with grass? It's sepose to be just sand, the hills are ok though.

BTW, everything else is awesome, the units, vehicle etc...

and one more thing, how do I get the bots into the landing crafts?

[rip31st 98]

One thing that  bothers me is Omaha Beach.

What are those Ortego-like wierd buldings on the beach?

The beach should be empty.

And why the beach is green with grass? It's sepose to be just sand, the hills are ok though.

BTW, everything else is awesome, the units, vehicle etc...

and one more thing, how do I get the bots into the landing crafts?

Imagine squares.  If you place a man in your editor and intialize him with:

<table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td>Code Sample </td></tr><tr><td id="CODE">this exec "camera.sqs"

And press your page up keep and then pan down once you are far above the ground.  You will see how the terrain texture grid affects the map.  The terrain texture grid is 150 meters in order to generate such a large map.  What you are looking at when you are looking at those blocky squares is one pixel of a 2048x2048 resolution drawing that makes up the satellite image.  If I take that green pixel and move it one pixel south, the entire hill becomes a sandy beach.   We talked about that for about a week and debated whether to make that hill a sand dune or not.  Then someone gave me this:

The hills are green and have some foilage.  I know it wasn't exactly like that in 1944 after it was bombarded and hammered with Naval guns for hours.  More like a muddy mess it was after that.  But the problem with that is how do you make one pixel cover that entire area and make it look decent with mud?

Here's a quick shot of what you're talking about ingame.  The Ortego like objects you see there are to simulate a sea wall that was there in 44'.

Of course I do take ideas and input. I thought about creating a sea wall model that was a bit more realistic that you could punch holes through with explosives.

[Mayhem_210 0]

Well I don't know in which part of Omaha Beach the allied forces accually landed, becuase the Omaha Beach coast strip is huge, but the beach itself where they landed sepose to be much larger, like this:

The other three pictures are from the Invasion 1944 dday mod.

[rip31st 98]

This pic is Omaha beach.

It's the Vierville-sur-mer gap made famous by german machine gun nests and concrete re-inforced bunkers on either side of the gap.  Collerville-ser-mur is where the cemetary/memorial is just to the east of there.  It's the spot where The U.S. Army 29th Division 116th Infantry, and 2nd and 5th Rangers Battalions landed on Dog Green sector of Omaha Beach, below Vierville-sur-Mer on D-day at the west end of the beach where nearly 3,000 American's lost their lives in one spot.  Despite popular belief and what some movies have shown, there were actually quiet a few homes right down by the seawall.  They are clearly marked in the map below.

You can see in the map below the gap is made clear.  Also the tide is in and all the obstacles are clearly marked.  

In the map I created.  IF you look closely.  You can see I attempted to model after the real world with what variables I have.  I admit I'm not satisfied with some things like the angle from the beach to the sea wall as it's nearly flat in real life.  In the next revision of the map that will be out in a few weeks - that area, the beach that is, will be a bit flatter.  I did get the hills right though as they are rather steep.

 

Once again, it's a huge map on a 150m terrain grid.  That means you move a point and 75 meters all around it move.  Tough to model small relief in a big map.  I can't achieve the nice rolling terrain you would see on a much smaller map.

The intention of the map is to play a versatile universal role for small missions to large campaigns.  Also hopefully the mod will stir other addon makers to provide the community more maps and equipment.

Looks like the stir has begun.  I believe many of those bunkers you see there are the work of Johns_art who is providing his work to the mod.

[oldbear 390]

I am sorry, but the patch is not working for me

c47 -> CTD -> error "Cannot create system memory surface 15555,400x400 (size 426272 B) Error code 8876086c"

[Enigma85 2]

i'll work on a new texture to replace rips for the c-47 as soon as i get time maybe this might solve the problem everyone seems to be running into.