Audio Improvement

[Sosna 0]

I couldn't find a thread on the subject, so here's a new one. The purpose of this topic is to help BI make Arma 2 sound like a next generation game.

Here are my ideas:

-Sound Occlusion: It's an excellent feature in Arma, however sound is blocked too much by vegetation and can be a little disorienting. Reduction of occlusion by about half with bushes/shrubs/branches should be good.

-Wind: If large trees are swaying, wind should be heard. I don't recall ever hearing it in Arma... Wind should also come from one direction.

-Aircraft: Planes should produce a loud "rumble" sound that's heard from a far distance. Helicopters sounds are also currently a bit weak.

-Relative Volume: There are some odd issues in Arma, for example: beeping indicator is usually louder than the explosion that caused it, even from the outside of the tank! Keep sound volume relatively logical.

-Gunshots: A few ideas for these. Right now in Arma the firing sounds are somewhat cartoonish. Each gun sounds fairly from eachother different and is easily distinguishable. This isn't very realistic.

From my observations with real audio and video clips, gunshots (in terms of small arms) sound more different from recording to recording than different weapons within the same recording. Also, environmental conditions and position define the sound more than the weapon itself. This should definitly be reflected in Arma 2.

I'm no expert on audio, but an idea occured to me for producing realistic gunshots. Since what distinguishes a gunshot sound (aside from observers position, and environment) is the physical characteristics of the weapon and ammunition - basically: caliber (propellant, bore diameter) and barrel length - sounds should be varied based on that. What if there was a "base" gunshot sound that was varied with pitch/tone and volume based on the weapon (I don't mean within the game in real time, but for production). For instance a larger caliber weapon is louder and more bassy, a smaller one is quieter and more trebbley. Some mathematical algorithm with variables for caliber and barrel length could be developed to implement the variation.

Gunfire indoors should definitely be louder and sharper, outdoors there should be a kind of echo/reverb.

The sound should also vary based on the observers position from the weapon, in terms of distance and angle from the barrel.

Using modified "base" sounds for each weapon would simplify things, and get rid of the need to invent a unique gunshot effect. See diagram example:

That's just an example, nothing exact but that's the rough idea. The base sounds would need to be very high quality and realistic in order for this to work.

Anyways those are my ideas. I would like to see other suggestions on how to make Arma 2 sound next-gen  

[fasad 1]

I expect (although I have no programming experience) that modifying a base sound is too CPU demanding when compared to simply playing a sound. I don't know if audio cards are powerful enough to do all that processing either, and ~50% of people don't even use one. Hopefully something like a hi-pass filter would be efficient enough to be used simulate the loss of treble over distance?

It would be really nice to have some more dynamic sounds. Using individual sounds for internal and external vehicle sounds would be a huge improvement. Rolling and wind noise would also be a great addition to moving vehicles. In reality rolling noise is far greater than engine noise for most moving vehicles.

[SaBrE_UK 0]

What I was thinking in games is how you have two volume sliders: Effects and Music. It would be great if you could have certain effects such as gunshots that are configurable alongside the "normal" effects, so speech would be at a low amplitude and a nearby gunshot will really BANG in comparison (not too much as it's just a game).

[Aeon 0]

Quote[/b] ]It would be really nice to have some more dynamic sounds. Using individual sounds for internal and external vehicle sounds would be a huge improvement. [...]

Yes I still persist since Dec. 09 2005,11:28

Quote[/b] ]<span style='font-size:7pt;line-height:100%'>I request for ArmA or OFP2 to implement a third sound source to vehicle. At least allow "additionalSound" for all vehicle type, but better would be a sound source only heardable in 1st person view with constant volume and pitch.

It would be a great inboard immersive sound just like interior rumble sound of cockpit, cargo, dashboard, ventilation, electric/lighting sizzle, rattle, and many many more</span>

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Quote[/b] ]From my observations with real audio and video clips, gunshots (in terms of small arms) sound more different from recording to recording than different weapons within the same recording.

I don't know if another of my old suggestion match with this fresh one, but here was what I've also suggested :

Quote[/b] ]<span style='font-size:7pt;line-height:100%'>I think about a light modification wich could improve the possibility of the game : Allow severals (2 or more) SoundFire entry inside each weapon class.

Actually a weapon gunshot play an unique SoundFire parameter.

With SoundFire1, SoundFire2,... the core would choose randomly one of those sounds for each shot.</span>

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Now I wish to add another suggestion about Game II's sound engine : to allow and use native stereophonic sounds. I know this would double Sound CPU consumption, but this will still remain negligible compared to Graphic CPU consumption.

[mr.g-c 6]

I think the Gun-sounds must strongly be orientated on the original sounds.

Many many many current Arma and even OFP sounds shows that this adds a new level of gameplay to the game and shows how important audio is.

Arma default sounds are just much more worse than the ones in OFP.

Here are some examples of AK-Type sounds how they should be:

AK47 FFUR in OFP

RPK-47 FFUR in OFP

AK74M FFUR in OFP, notice the lower soundlevel and muzzleflash through the introduced muzzlebreak with the AK74 series.

This is how weapons firing should feel in ARMA2!

And as Marek announced, they will going back to the roots, so lets hope for some really realistic "kick-ass" sounds this time.

Reagards, Christian

[mrj-fin 0]

I played first month of arma with orginal sound and after first rather proper sound mod were released I no time had to had listen weak sounds. I think BIS need hire some sounds modsteam to doing realistic gun sounds. It should be easy task if they are going to emphizes to getting authentic voices just purchase some prerecorded samples. Its not hard to mod games but to big audience negative reviews wont make sell games.

[Aeon 0]

Arma default sounds are just better than the ones in default OFP (44kHz vs 22kHz)

...maybe not better than later OFP third mod release, but well at this point it is just about subjectivity I guess.

Also BIS does not have to hire sound designer guys from mod team, since those guys pick up sounds from other games or from commercial sound libraries. Just like BIS or other game devs does and PAY for copyright.

[CarlGustaffa 4]

Sound is to me a live or let die for a game, even more so than bad graphics. OFP and ArmA has a reaaly long way regarding sound modelling before they can even start calling themself proper developers in this respect. Remember OFP aircraft? OMG, what were they thinking? And default ArmA aircraft leaves much to be desired as well. But often it is not only the sounds themselves that is the problem, but the whole engine. I've tried some addons and some makes really natural sound when played at proper pitch, but an ArmA vehicle makes use of a "linear rpm<->single sound" model that simply doesn't work. Guys, this is 2008!

Consider Flight Simulator from Microsoft, and how their sound engine works for an airplane. For many rpm and/or power driven sounds, these can be i.e. four different sounds for four different rpms or power settings. The rpm input curve drives a pitch and volume curve for each four sounds. This is the engine rpm sound.

Then you have another curvebased system for propeller sound, i.e. how a propellers noise changes with different power settings and propeller angles; a feathered propeller at full speed makes more noise.

Then there is engine rumbling sounds. And the list goes on. There are huge amounts of sounds that make an aircraft sound like an aircraft. Not a single sound driven by rpm.

Another great example on how a sound system really makes the game work, is Sin. Here, most (if no all) the sounds are stereo sounds, and of extremely good quality and design. It really adds theatmosphere to the game.

So, here are my sound advice, so to speak:

1. Use stereo sounds of very good quality.

2. Prevent ALL kinds of clipping. Even if a sound doesn't clip, who knows what ingame reverbiation will do to it.

3. Use multiple soundcurves similar to what I showed for Flight Simulator. It can be simplified a little though. Instead of so many kinds of sound per engine, have 4 sounds that driven by rpm modded by pitch and volum curves. Have one of these for close sounds and one for distant sounds. The actual mix is these two stereo sounds mixed by the distance from the vehicle. This would allow for howling jet engines close by and typical jet sounds far away. This also goes for gunfire and reloads -- record them at different distances.

4. Stereo can be utilized in a cool fashion. OFP/ArmA have a very cool sound feature that not many others take fully advantage of, namely doppler effect and I believe live EQ'ing. But this should be expanded into stereo. First of all, the recorded stereofield is dependant on distance. While near a sound, it has very wide stereo effect which narrows down to nearly mono at maximum distance (or curve based). With live EQ'ing I mean that the "ear" pointing towards the soundsource have no EQ'ing, while the "far ear" has a slight reduction in the higher frequencies. Turning away from the sound would have dampened the frequencies on both ears.

Using live EQ'ing, indicating how you are oriented wrt the soundsource.

Using doppler, you can also tell how you move wrt the soundsource.

Using stereofield, you know how close you are wrt the soundsource.

These may be subtle clues in real life, but if you try, you'll find that you can actually tell the difference, even though you may not be able to explain it.

Would be soooo cool.

Enviromental sounds such as wind, critters, frogs, birds, trees etc should also be stereo and these are very easy to obtain for any soundcrew, or even sound "downloaders". Take any mono sound and just be creative with software.

Thunder might have yet another type of stereo setup, maybe dynamic curves that shapes the sound in terms of panoramic placement and EQ'ing, simulating how it appears to travel through the sky. But again, stereo as a basis.

Oh, and those bumper sounds? Any car in my country having those ArmA sounds during a "fitness exam" would have had its plates removed by government

[wamingo 1]

Agreed, sound needs a lot of love in arma2.

Arma's gun sounds are not sharp or deep, and certainly not real.. they all sound flat and weak.

I find myself picking the M240 a lot simply because it has a much deeper and more detailed sound than the other weapons, even though it's rather crap compared to the SAW and makes you unable to carry RPG and such.

Arma-2 must have gunfire reverberation, the echo kind of thing. And preferably also more real gun sounds.

What makes the shootout scene (youtube) in Heat so cool? The deep, dark weapon sounds and the reverberation.

The sound mods are a good effort and all, but imo still rather poor and not standardized (an inherent problem with all community made mods) so they won't do it for me.

And I'll just mention my dislike for the silent weapons. They have got to go... Silenced weapons are not silent. Unless other sound is blocking it out you should still hear them far away, and certainly more than a "click".

Sound should be a top priority for BIS, pushing down even AI.

[MrZig 0]

I agree on the sound engine needing more work.

I also believe more work should be spent on the movement and environmental sounds. In ArmA, you can barely even hear yourself walk, lay down, etc, nevermind your team-mates.

If you've walked in a bush with 3 other guys in real life, even 50m apart, you know that unless you're walking a meter a minute, you're going to sound like a heard of elephants. ArmA fails in this respect.

Another part is engine noises from vehicles. It's pathetic, and doesn't even sound like you're in a real vehicle. And when you hit objects there should definitely be a crash sound. You should also be hearing wind noise, the wheels, etc.

ArmA2 could really use a sound engine overhaul, and I really hope they do it. Do to ArmA2's sound engine what ArmA's graphic engine did to OFP and I'll be a happy camper.

[Perun 0]

Yes, with sound it's like with seeing. When looking in mediumly lighted or darken room, man can see well. But if man came from strongly lighted places to dark room, it takes a time to see better. When hearing nothing or a soft sound, man can hear almost everything. But when man is in closeness to a gun shooting, explosions or something else what is loud, when it's again silence, it again takes a little time to hear good. (man can not hear because of something like whistling in games, but it more likely a pressure in ear. I rather use ultrasound (around 10 Hz) to make that pressure).

PS. And although it would be nice, when looking at strong light to see the stains that makes accommodation of eye receptors, like in real life

[Commando84 0]

hope they make some new great music!

I know the fans can edit in custom music into their missions but it would be cool if Arma 2 had some music that made you feel proud of its music

[Przemek_kondor 13]

hope they make some new great music!  

I know the fans can edit in custom music into their missions but it would be cool if Arma 2 had some music that made you feel proud of its music  

Exactly!

Music tracks from ofp were really good. Missionmakers often used it in their mission. I play those tracks on winamp.

Arma music tracks are - I don't even know how to name it - bleak/neuter - only some elektronic-guitarr riffs with no concept - created with some music-maker application, right?

In the HD-trailer I heard familiar "music"...

[mr.g-c 6]

Is it just me, or did you guys also noticed some "distance-echo" for the gunshots in the Arma2 HD trailer?

I mean at the point as they are in this coast-city and firing....

EDIT: At 1:48 exactly (guy fires M4)

It could be just environmental "wind", but somehow it sounds like the "usual echo" when a gun is fired in a valley and/or area surrounded by woods.

That would be truly awesome if that is the case!

[POTS 0]

There also has to be the sound of gear moving around when you run. You don't sound like a normal person while moving with a fighting load carrier and backpack.

[sk3pt 0]

- Sounds when moving through bushes and trees.

- More and louder wind.

- A music player, and a user music directory (in ArmA root or wherever) without the need to PBO, preferably with mp3 support.

[Pyronick 21]

Full EAX 5.0 support, through OpenAL and Xaudio/XACT (since it'll be Xbox360 aswell). But I guess (or rather hope) it's already implemented?

We haven't heard anything about the new Mega SEF system yet. Except for this:

Quote[/b] ]The Sounds

• 3D positioning with Doppler effect

• 3D environment effects including distance

based distortion, reverberation, occlusions

and obstructions

• Speed of sound and supersonic bullet crack

simulation

• 978 separate sound samples (footsteps, gear

noises, movements etc.)

• Each vehicle sound is composed from

more than 40 noises (engine, friction of tyres

on surfaces, etc.)

• New simulation of the sounds of aircraft and

helicopters

• Improved sound of tanks with separate noises

of the engine and treads.

[Peter_Bullet 0]

Nice ideas guys.

I personally wish for more masculine weapon sound. I don't care wether it's realistic, as long as the weapons sound powerful (wich they are). Propably the bang and echo would do it.

When I was in the army, I noticed that when you fire a rifle, you hear very clearly as the weapon reloads/cocks its self. So you should also hear a loud click-click when firing.

[Neo-Helix 0]

Listen to this here !

It would be cool if something like this would be realizable....

Its like a war horn... the enemy fears...

and imortant: seperation of gun noise and impact !

[sparks50 0]

Quote[/b] ]seperation of gun noise and impact !

This is already in Arma.

The sound engine models the correct speed of sound, which is why you will hear a incoming bullet hit, before you hear the enemy sniper shoot it.

[Neo-Helix 0]

Listen to the sound of the clip.

this is not in arma... and it rocks.

[sparks50 0]

Vopsound ACE has some good A-10 cannon sounds, thats the soundmod I use now. But the separation is already built in as I said

[Alex72 1]

ArmA2's brand new sound engine: Mega SEF

-3D positioning with doppler effect

-3D environment effects including: Distance based DISTORTION, REVERBATION, OCCLUSIONS and OBSTRUCTIONS.

-Speed of sound and supersonic bullet crack simulation.

-978 Separate sound samples (footsteps, gear noises, movement etc)

-Vehicles composed out of more than 40 sounds (Engine, friction of tyres on surfaces etc).

-New simulation of the aircraft/helicopter sounds.

-Improved sound of tanks with separate sounds of engine and tracks.

Please have some faith...

EDIT: Argh... Didnt see there was 2 pages lol. My bad. Deserves to be mentioned again anyway.

Regards

Alex

[CarlGustaffa 4]

I'm loving it already. I read the intervju a while back where much of this is said, and I thought to myself "these BIS guys have read my post and acted upon it"

[Nicholas 5]

There is a little bit of wind sound in ArmA 1 i believe, its just so quiet. And i think the trees do sway. Because when i was a sniper once, looking down into a forrest for patrol units, i seen the tree pixels move as if they were swaying in the wind.