TrackIR Pros & Cons???

[Dallas 9]

I don't use it always and I could easily do without.

However if you do got the money to spend on gaming accessories, I recommend the experience both for ArmA and other sims.

[Shadow_Spyder 0]

I've got it, and it's amazing. Deffinitly worth the $$ epecially if you enjoy racing Sims and flight sims, and you'd want it for the future of gaming where newer kewl games will implement it. Only problem I ever see, and it might just be the way i've got it set-up, sometimes my in-game head will go nuts and i'll be doing The Exorcist type head spinning lol. Nothing a quick F12 button wont fix (center button) and then I'm good to go... but really no good if it happens in the middle of a firefight... quick way to die.

[dmarkwick 261]

I've got it, and it's amazing. Deffinitly worth the $$ epecially if you enjoy racing Sims and flight sims, and you'd want it for the future of gaming where newer kewl games will implement it. Only problem I ever see, and it might just be the way i've got it set-up, sometimes my in-game head will go nuts and i'll be doing The Exorcist type head spinning lol. Nothing a quick F12 button wont fix (center button) and then I'm good to go... but really no good if it happens in the middle of a firefight... quick way to die.

I get that if the sun shines through the window onto objects behind me. Might want to check for reflective surfaces behind wherever it is that you sit.

Also - I noticed last year that my Christmas tree lights broadcast in the infra-red, as I could plainly see the Christmas-tree shape behind me in the Tracking View window

[leckig 0]

It seems like making that freetrack device may be fun - have anyone of you done it?

[Shadow_Spyder 0]

I've got it, and it's amazing. Deffinitly worth the $$ epecially if you enjoy racing Sims and flight sims, and you'd want it for the future of gaming where newer kewl games will implement it. Only problem I ever see, and it might just be the way i've got it set-up, sometimes my in-game head will go nuts and i'll be doing The Exorcist type head spinning lol. Nothing a quick F12 button wont fix (center button) and then I'm good to go... but really no good if it happens in the middle of a firefight... quick way to die.

I get that if the sun shines through the window onto objects behind me. Might want to check for reflective surfaces behind wherever it is that you sit.

Also - I noticed last year that my Christmas tree lights broadcast in the infra-red, as I could plainly see the Christmas-tree shape behind me in the Tracking View window

Yea, i've tested this and have nothing behind me reflecting. In fact, this was happening to me last night, in the dark, except for the PC monitor light. I think it gets messed up when the reflections go out of the boundaries or something. I think it has to do with which way the TIR is facing, and where my hat is pointing those reflectors. Seems it happens more often then not if I lean outside the box or look up to high to where the reciever can no longer see the reflectors. Either way, I've set the re-center button onto my mouse now so as soon as it happens, it's just a mouse-click away to be back in action.

[DaSquade 0]

Very happy with my PRO4. Like mentioned i need some time to get used to (so nothing for a 5min gamer a week or you must s$$ €).

Works as good as perfectly once adjusted.

The only cons in use i personally have is:

- Like mentioned sometimes the free head movement in quick aims in CQB can be tricky as it is sometimes a bit hard to quickly readjust your view to center aim (i suppose a shortcut key recenter could fix that..if i could find a free/quick access key somewhere .

- Maybe settings, but sometimes a bit sucky in use when you look sideways or up/down and loose track/connection with the device. Then your view will auto recenter, or something like that. Would need to recheck but it was something like that and frustrated me sometimes (especially in helis and heavy CQB situations). Maybe the devs of TrackIR could lock view when the max connection point is reached?

But beside that and it need some adjustment to get used to it. An ultimate handy tool, in ArmA and other games it supports.

I wanted to try or even buy COD4, but afaik it don't support TrackIR....so untill then....on hold here.

[Tankbuster 1733]

It seems like making that freetrack device may be fun - have anyone of you done it?

Not exactly. There's a Finnish chap on the FT forums who will either supply you with all the appropriate bits (the combination of LED and resisters is crucial) either loose in a bag or pre assembled.

Being a lightweight, I went for the ready made one. I spent 19 Euros (iirc) on the kit and a few quid on a webcam and I had it all working within hours. I haven't seen TrackIr in action, but I am certainly most happy with Freetrack.

[kestrel7e7 0]

Quote[/b] ]Maybe settings, but sometimes a bit sucky in use when you look sideways or up/down and loose track/connection with the device. Then your view will auto recenter, or something like that. Would need to recheck but it was something like that and frustrated me sometimes (especially in helis and heavy CQB situations). Maybe the devs of TrackIR could lock view when the max connection point is reached?

ArmA is especially bad because it has a very short timeout.

To prevent this problem I deliberately made Freetrack so that it never resets the view when it loses tracking.

[ModeZt 0]

I also started using Freetrack. First to say u need to spend time on choosing the right webcam. Second u need to buy appropriate LED's.

The main idea i whanted to say.. Freetrack is emulating Track IR. Without TrackIR it would be impossible to use head tracking in games.. If we whant to see more games with head tracking support we need to support TIR..

[GAU-8 0]

that is EXACTLY the reason we need to speak up to game developers with new games out on the horizon. so many good games in the near future to be released..and no support.

when i heard about ARMA, i and a few others from the flight sim forums who played OFP chimed in about track-IR as much as we could to BIS (i havent a clue if it they really heard us..or they had it planned anyways..doesnt matter. it is in

to be honest, if arma didnt implement it. i probably wouldnt play it at all. once you get used to track-IR, you have a frustrating time without it. at least i do. im not speaking for others out there only me, but i dont play anything that doesnt use it.

[Tankbuster 1733]

The main idea i whanted to say.. Freetrack is emulating Track IR. Without TrackIR it would be impossible to use head tracking in games.. If we whant to see more games with head tracking support we need to support TIR..

Yes you are absolutely right.

ArmA supports TrackIr, not Freetrack. It just happens that the two present similar data to the game.

It's a little like saying ArmA supports Logitech mice. Of course that means it also supports many other makes of mice.

Not a perfect analogy, I know, but it's the best I could come up with!

Saying that we need to support TIR so that developers will support it is stretching the point a little. I'm sure that the developers know that TIR AND FT support is something they want to be able to write on the game box.

I support FT because it's so much cheaper than TIR. Am I damaging the chances of having support for these systems in the future?

[dmarkwick 261]

Quick question about FreeTrack, I'm a little confused to how it functions. Does it take advantage of NaturalPoint's built in (to ArmA) code, or does it use 100% original (or otherwise non-NaturalPoint) resources?

[kklownboy 43]

thanks for the input guys!

see honey it's not just another piece of crap for my computer that I will use for a week then shelf

HAHA

I don't blame you for laughing all the way to the bank, NaturalPoint_Vincent. Good luck with your patents.

Fortunately Freetrack, being free, open source software, doesn't require any financial justification from a significant other, nor any financial commitment for that matter and is fully capable with the majority of usb webcams available. You're not tied down to any one piece of expensive hardware, a generic webcam is cheap and easy to get. Not to mention the Freetrack software has features currently unavailable to TrackIR users and with more to come.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freetrack

BS. A good web cam is 100$ to me, and to spend a couple of hours to get the LEDs is worth 200$of my time. So i get it all from NP, and they get Devs to notice. your such a crapper on this kinda of thread... pimping your open source. sick of it. And i have tired it, ill stick with NP.

[Tankbuster 1733]

thanks for the input guys!

see honey it's not just another piece of crap for my computer that I will use for a week then shelf

HAHA

I don't blame you for laughing all the way to the bank, NaturalPoint_Vincent. Good luck with your patents.

Fortunately Freetrack, being free, open source software, doesn't require any financial justification from a significant other, nor any financial commitment for that matter and is fully capable with the majority of usb webcams available. You're not tied down to any one piece of expensive hardware, a generic webcam is cheap and easy to get. Not to mention the Freetrack software has features currently unavailable to TrackIR users and with more to come.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freetrack

BS. A good web cam is 100$ to me, and to spend a couple of hours to get the LEDs is worth 200$of my time. So i get it all from NP, and they get Devs to notice. your such a crapper on this kinda of thread... pimping your open source. sick of it. And i have tired it, ill stick with NP.

Bless!

[kestrel7e7 0]

BS.  A good web cam is 100$ to me, and to spend a couple of hours to get the LEDs is worth 200$of my time. So i get it all from NP, and they get Devs to notice. your such a crapper on this kinda of thread... pimping your open source. sick of it. And i have tired it, ill stick with NP.

All webcams on the compatible webcam guide on the FreeTrack forum are under $100USD, you can get $20USD webcams that perfectly meet FreeTrack's requirements. Also webcam's are multipurpose, maybe you're not interested in using one at the moment but you never know when one might come in handy. Webcams don't run hot, are simpler and consequently less likely to fail and if you do have problems, fixing it (ie buying a new one) is fast and easy, minimizing down-time.

For the LED model you can buy them pe-constructed from some members of the community or you could even buy a TrackClip Pro if you're that desparate   . Using the 'time is money' mantra as an excuse not to build a model yourself is flawed logic since learning is the greatest investment you can make.

Nothing gets devs to notice a new control interface more than it being open source.

With regards to 'pimping,' let's not forget Vincent's internet wide 'technical support.'  

[ModeZt 0]

Quick question about FreeTrack, I'm a little confused to how it functions. Does it take advantage of NaturalPoint's built in (to ArmA) code, or does it use 100% original (or otherwise non-NaturalPoint) resources?

FreeTrack is seen by the game as a TIR device. I just installed the FreeTrack, launched ArmA and started using my head ))) I haven't even opened the "Options" menu in the game! In Test Drive Unlimited i clicked on "Enable TrackIR" and it started working.

So maybe some day the Natural Point will somehow bann the FreeTrack users or something    

As it is said in the wiki ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freetrack ) there is a serious difference betwen TIR and FT. TIR uses the built in processor to analize the data. FT uses your CPU to analize the webcam image. Depending on the webcam the CPU usage may vary from 1-2% to 20%.

BTW. The good webcam may be cheaper then 100$. I mean the Sony Playstation Eye. It gives 120fps@320x240 ( same as TIR ) and it costs 40$ in US. http://www.us.playstation.com/PS3/Accessories/SCPH-98047 It's not available in Russia at the moment.. I'll give it a try as soon as possible.

[kestrel7e7 0]

So maybe some day the Natural Point will somehow bann the FreeTrack users or something    

They would have to create a new interface that is not back compatible. Anyway, the law favours interoperability and competition.  

Quote[/b] ]

BTW. The good webcam may be cheaper then 100$. I mean the Sony Playstation Eye. It gives 120fps@320x240 ( same as TIR ) and it costs 40$ in US.

I don't think USB can handle 120fps@320x240 in colour, remember TIR doesn't send video to the computer, only the point coordinates. Ideally you would want a 120fps black and white camera to reduce USB bandwidth. At any rate FreeTrack is not really designed for it and would need to be modified to make best use of the higher fps.

[dmarkwick 261]

So maybe some day the Natural Point will somehow bann the FreeTrack users or something

They would have to create a new interface that is not back compatible. Anyway, the law favours interoperability and competition.

Aah I think I'm beginning to understand. I also think I'm starting to understand the "good luck with your patents" jibe earlier, obviously NP don't like you piggybacking off their work.

Which is understandable

TrackIR all the way for me matey

[kestrel7e7 0]

Aah I think I'm beginning to understand. I also think I'm starting to understand the "good luck with your patents" jibe earlier, obviously NP don't like you piggybacking off their work.

Which is understandable

TrackIR all the way for me matey

You like monopolies? TrackIR is like Microsoft (hypothetically) only allowing Windows to work with a Microsoft brand mouse and charging a premium for it (as a sidenote the ball mouse was invented by Xerox). The only reason a consumer would enthusiastically support such a notion is if they had already bought a pricey Microsoft mouse and are desperately trying to justify their purchase.

[dmarkwick 261]

You like monopolies?

Nope, but I do believe in the rights of genuine innovators to protect their investments.

TrackIR is like Microsoft (hypothetically) only allowing Windows to work with a Microsoft brand mouse and charging a premium for it (as a sidenote the ball mouse was invented by Xerox).

Bit of a straw man argument there, MS do not of course do any such thing. I might argue, using a similar straw man argument, that you (hypothetically) might well insist on the right to walk right into NP studios and demand that you have access to all their PCs, development tools and indeed their hardware stock so that you can break the monopoly.

You might think that TrackIR is such a great name, that you want to use it too, but NP have a monopoly on that as well. Of course, no such thing is happening.

I suggest the real state of affairs is that NP have put out a product that is hardware, used by their software. Surely such a thing is not outside the bounds of fair play?

The only reason a consumer would enthusiastically support such a notion is if they had already bought a pricey Microsoft mouse and are desperately trying to justify their purchase.

The only reason? I might argue that "the only reason" someone would use such an argument is to fully justify their own actions as though, secretly, they know the real state of things. The "only" reason I support such a notion is that it just sounds right to me. If a company put out a product, they have a right for it not to be ripped off. (Not only ripped off BTW, but actually used to rip itself off.)

Look, if you've cleverly found some kind of legal grey area in which it's possible for you to develop a free version of someone else's hard work, on the back OF that hard work, then fine, good on you. There's always a market for a free rip-off. Just like there's always someone who's irritated that they might actually have to pay to use someone else's technology. Takes all sorts after all.

[kklownboy 43]

BS. A good web cam is 100$ to me, and to spend a couple of hours to get the LEDs is worth 200$of my time. So i get it all from NP, and they get Devs to notice. your such a crapper on this kinda of thread... pimping your open source. sick of it. And i have tired it, ill stick with NP.

All webcams on the compatible webcam guide on the FreeTrack forum are under $100USD, you can get $20USD webcams that perfectly meet FreeTrack's requirements. Also webcam's are multipurpose, maybe you're not interested in using one at the moment but you never know when one might come in handy. Webcams don't run hot, are simpler and consequently less likely to fail and if you do have problems, fixing it (ie buying a new one) is fast and easy, minimizing down-time.

For the LED model you can buy them pe-constructed from some members of the community or you could even buy a TrackClip Pro if you're that desparate . Using the 'time is money' mantra as an excuse not to build a model yourself is flawed logic since learning is the greatest investment you can make.

Nothing gets devs to notice a new control interface more than it being open source.

With regards to 'pimping,' let's not forget Vincent's internet wide 'technical support.'

you dont get it... and i guess you never will... I have a webcam. A really good one. Why would i want a 20$ junker... just to use your rip off software?... I use my web cam to well, webcam. And there ya go again.. about time is money, not clue there eh? Wont even go into the "Open Source" comment, lol... and the run hot....?

I have a track clip pro, you keep dissing the NP product? Is that the only way to get ppl to use yours?, its about merit, and you have since lost it, long time ago on the forum. And the flawed logic on learning or buying...do you understand about time wasting activity's that look like your doing something/learning?... You know like this post. And like i said in my first post to you , I have used freetrack, Ill stick with NP. you are a looter.

[Jarvis 0]

Cons:

Embarrassing when chicks ask "what's that thing on your hat?"

**LAUGH LAUGH LAUGH...AWE SHITT...**

My ex came over one time and asked is that a camera? -she's a dumb little ho and she would ask that kind of shit.

Anyways I had to embarrasingly explain that the little sticks on my gaming headphones do when I'm playing a game , and she really...idk "oh you're playing your games again?" that kind of thing... She got really disappointed when she thought it was a camera, she's a little cyber ho like that...

Pros:

When I don't use it in Arma flying, I can't fly or land it's a real handicap so if you get it you really know where you are and can know where your enemy is when dogfighting...really great to have!

Cons:

see comments of other ppl above

Getting used to it, definately, you have to change the sensitivity to your liking, personally I have it so you really have to turn your head to get a response otherwise you'll have to hardly move your head at all and that really puts a strain on your back and kneck...but really worth the 200 bucks definately hands down.

[scudrunner 0]

Pros overwhelmingly defeat the cons and the only con I know of that hasn't been mentioned is about the trackIR clip. the clip you can buy, while definitely worth it if you use headphones and/or dont like to wear hats, is fairly cheaply made (read cheap, breakable plastic) Mine broke within 2 weeks and i have to use tape to keep it in position. No effect on performance, just an eyesore, but annoying.

Other than that, the TrackIR becomes as indispensable to gaming (if you're a big flight guy, Arma, FSX, etc) as a joystick. I could get carried away and say it's almost as crucial as high speed but that may be a bit much....

[NaturalPoint_Vincent 0]

Pros overwhelmingly defeat the cons and the only con I know of that hasn't been mentioned is about the trackIR clip. the clip you can buy, while definitely worth it if you use headphones and/or dont like to wear hats, is fairly cheaply made (read cheap, breakable plastic) Mine broke within 2 weeks and i have to use tape to keep it in position. No effect on performance, just an eyesore, but annoying.

Other than that, the TrackIR becomes as indispensable to gaming (if you're a big flight guy, Arma, FSX, etc) as a joystick. I could get carried away and say it's almost as crucial as high speed but that may be a bit much....

Did you order from us?

Send your order info to me, and I will see about getting it replaced for you..........

support @ naturalpoint.com

[scudrunner 0]

Wow. Away from my home until later this week but sounds like a good deal. I'll shoot you an email. You just made my night. Anyone mention customer service as a pro?

Now, i wonder if the anheuser bush company will offer to replace their stuff as well...