TrackIR Pros & Cons???

[dmarkwick 261]

i applaud both sides going different paths to achieve the same idea. and both work.

Ordinarily I would too. But it seems that's not quite the case, as FreeTrack uses NP developed interface, and so relies totally on NP's developed idea and implementation.

Without NP there would be no FreeTrack, half of FreeTrack's functionality is in fact NP property.

As I understand it

Still, I expect kudos must be given for reverse engineering half of the idea

[kegetys 2]

i applaud both sides going different paths to achieve the same idea. and both work.

Ordinarily I would too. But it seems that's not quite the case, as FreeTrack uses NP developed interface, and so relies totally on NP's developed idea and implementation.

To be fair with that argument, it was NP who originally decided to go for a proprietary interface for TrackIR (You need to sign an NDA to get access to it) instead of, for example, making the device appear as a standard human interface device. If it would have used HID you would not have needed to have a special interface to use it and it would have worked on other operating systems too which TrackIR currently doesn't do. A standard interface might have also encouraged more game developers to support it, as currently developers need to add support for that special interface just to retrieve data from TIR instead of being able to use, for example, existing DirectInput code to access it.

The interface between the game and TrackIR is not that complicated anyway and doesn't do anything "special" (I have "reverse engineered" it myself) and does nothing for the actual tracking.

[The Susser 0]

I hope you don't charge disabled people those prices.

Quote[/b] ]

has anybody taken a look at the cars that park in a disabled parking lately...? it aint the usually clunker, or grannymobile. seriously take a look. they got money just like we do. if not even more.

are you assuming handicapped people are POOR, and cannot do the same things we can!? what a STEREOTYPE. by all means. i know 2 guys who both happen to have one arm, BOTH drive a motorcycle DAILY, both are successful . one does flight simming/arma daily.

thats biased/insulting.

I actually care for disabled people who are living at home. I have worked with a few housebound people who rely on their computers for everything from shopping to a social life. One lady told me she probably would have commited suicide if it wasn't for her online friends. Contrary to popular belief many disabled people neither have a great income or are expecting compensation and certainly will not be able to get a grant, for what is essentially a game controller.

Sure some people have horrible accidents and have big payouts. Others do not and can never work again so obviously dishing out all that money is impossible.

I wasn't insulting I was looking out for people. take it as you will.

[NaturalPoint_Vincent 0]

I will run the idea of being able to pause individual axis within the TrackIR software, by the development team and see if we can get it added to a future version of the software.

You mentioned this feature being included in the next version. I have similar suggestion. Someone might have already asked this at some point, but...

Would it be possible to assign a hotkey to load a profile? While ingame, you can alt-tab and change the "Auto-load Profile" to whatever you want then go back ingame and have it work. So would it be possible to do a certain profile change by the ease of hitting a hot key?

I desire this because as infantry most people play with a deadzone. I didn't for a while, but for being able to see movement at long ranges, your screen needs to be still. When it comes to flying and driving, I like to have no deadzone. So, is this at all possible?

Thanks,

I will add it to the list, and see if it can be done......

[NaturalPoint_Vincent 0]

I will run the idea of being able to pause individual axis within the TrackIR software, by the development team and see if we can get it added to a future version of the software.

You mentioned this feature being included in the next version. I have similar suggestion. Someone might have already asked this at some point, but...

On the topic of suggestions, would it also be possible to have shortcuts to adjust the center point manually? Often I'd want the view to be tilted a little bit downwards, or be just a bit higher or further back than where the game sets the center point to be. I can do this now by doing the exact opposite of what I'd want and then press the center key, but this makes the centering procedure a bit too complicated... Maybe there could be a "center here" button, so I could move my head where I'd want the default view to be, press that key, and that position would become the new center position?

Also, I'd like an option to have the LEDs (or the whole device?) to automatically turn off when there are no active applications using it. Currently I have to manually start the TrackIR software every time I want to play a TIR game (and sometimes I forget to do it, and I have to restart the game), simply because if the device is on all the time it gets really, really hot when sitting on top of my 22" CRT screen that puts out around 130W of additional heat onto it. Maybe it isn't a problem, but I'd rather not risk it getting broken even if it would be replaced by warranty.

It is on the feature/bug report list for TrackIR

[CharveL 0]

i applaud both sides going different paths to achieve the same idea. and both work.

Ordinarily I would too. But it seems that's not quite the case, as FreeTrack uses NP developed interface, and so relies totally on NP's developed idea and implementation.

To be fair with that argument, it was NP who originally decided to go for a proprietary interface for TrackIR (You need to sign an NDA to get access to it) instead of, for example, making the device appear as a standard human interface device. If it would have used HID you would not have needed to have a special interface to use it and it would have worked on other operating systems too which TrackIR currently doesn't do. A standard interface might have also encouraged more game developers to support it, as currently developers need to add support for that special interface just to retrieve data from TIR instead of being able to use, for example, existing DirectInput code to access it.

The interface between the game and TrackIR is not that complicated anyway and doesn't do anything "special" (I have "reverse engineered" it myself) and does nothing for the actual tracking.

Still, how much time, money and legwork have you spent convincing developers to implement head tracking into their games?

Maybe you could make your own HID interface and promote it's use instead of using someone else's hard work to piggyback on then you will genuinely have some foundation for your rather ironic comments toward NP.

It seems you seem to fancy yourself quite the Robin Hood!

[dmarkwick 261]

I think you're quoting the wrong guy for the wrong reasons here CharveL

[kestrel7e7 0]

Quote[/b] ]Still, how much time, money and legwork have you spent convincing developers to implement head tracking into their games?  

Consumers have a right to a competitive market place, this is far more important, both morally and ethically than a commercial company's selfish desire to be a monopoly. Even capitalists admit monopolies are bad and should be stopped. Every ethically charged question CharveL has posed is based on the assumption that a company has an automatic right to be a monopoly. A company can legally and ethically become a monopoly only if they have a patent, this is not an automatic right, it must be legally earned and enforced. The DMCA reflects this by preventing companies from cornering a sector and becoming a monopoly solely based on the use of a proprietary interface.

Quote[/b] ]Maybe you could make your own HID interface and promote it's use instead of using someone else's hard work to piggyback on then you will genuinely have some foundation for your rather ironic comments toward NP.

You seem to be forgetting the mouse, keyboard, joystick, FSUIPC and SimConnect interfaces that are already in FreeTrack. Last time I checked these had nothing to do with TIR, but they do involve other people's hard work so I guess that means I'm 'piggybacking' . FreeTrack will have its own direct interface before long.

[CharveL 0]

[Fiasco 0]

Quote[/b] ]Still, how much time, money and legwork have you spent convincing developers to implement head tracking into their games?  

Consumers have a right to a competitive market place, this is far more important, both morally and ethically than a commercial company's selfish desire to be a monopoly. Even capitalists admit monopolies are bad and should be stopped. Every ethically charged question CharveL has posed is based on the assumption that a company has an automatic right to be a monopoly. A company can legally and ethically become a monopoly only if they have a patent, this is not an automatic right, it must be legally earned and enforced. The DMCA reflects this by preventing companies from cornering a sector and becoming a monopoly solely based on the use of a proprietary interface.

Quote[/b] ]Maybe you could make your own HID interface and promote it's use instead of using someone else's hard work to piggyback on then you will genuinely have some foundation for your rather ironic comments toward NP.

You seem to be forgetting the mouse, keyboard, joystick, FSUIPC and SimConnect interfaces that are already in FreeTrack. Last time I checked these had nothing to do with TIR, but they do involve other people's hard work so I guess that means I'm 'piggybacking' . FreeTrack will have its own direct interface before long.

Kestrel, your a self aggrandizing dolt.

NP carved out a niche market with a unique consumer product as a for profit entity.

It's not their fault you can't do the same.  

Speaking of morals and ethics, why are you hijacking someone elses thread to bang your personal agenda drum?

You might find more success spreading your message if you didn't come across as such a dick.

[Rexxenexx 0]

Pros: Works 100% in XP. Works 100% on Vista64. Easy setup and config. No extra BS. No Dr. Watson or CTD's.

Cons: It takes like 3 or 4 minutes to stop laughing when you first play. For me it's pretty much every time I start a game.

Another Con is ArmA's fault. Someone should make a mod where you can throw stuff out of an MH-6. I can't count how many times I flew low close to an enemy squad and looked out the side window at them thinking "If I had a grenade or a rock even!"

[nichevo 2]

Kestrel, your a self aggrandizing dolt.

NP carved out a niche market with a unique consumer product as a for profit entity.

It's not their fault you can't do the same.

It seems you assume that people who provide things for free are only doing so because they couldn't "cut it" in a commercial sense. I would suggest some people gain greater satisfaction from seeing their work help others, rather than simply generating a profit.

TrackIR is like the Mayo Clinic, FreeTrack is like a Red Cross clinic in Somalia. It's pretty obvious which one offers better treatment. But that doesn't mean it's worthwhile to rubbish the alternative, which helps people who might otherwise go unassisted.

I find it very strange that people feel justified to heap scorn on a product which is free (or near-free if you consider the DIY kit). After all, you can't say you're getting poor value-for-money.

Rant over. But all that said, I do think Kestrel and Charvel could both do with turning down the vitriol. Kestrel especially could do with acknowledging the good points of his "competitor's" product.

[kestrel7e7 0]

Kestrel especially could do with acknowledging the good points of his "competitor's" product.

I thought I made it pretty clear, both here and on the FreeTrack Wikipedia entry, that the TIR camera operates at 120fps and uses minimal CPU. It's also more PNP. If you know some other good points (in comparison with FreeTrack) I missed then I'm interested to hear them.

[CharveL 0]

Kestrel especially could do with acknowledging the good points of his "competitor's" product.

I thought I made it pretty clear, both here and on the FreeTrack Wikipedia entry, that the TIR camera operates at 120fps and uses minimal CPU. It's also more PNP. If you know some other good points (in comparison with FreeTrack) I missed then I'm interested to hear them.

You haven't been listening.

Install the TIR software and take a look at what it offers for starters. It might give you some ideas to implement in future updates if nothing else.

[kestrel7e7 0]

You haven't been listening.

Install the TIR software and take a look at what it offers for starters.  It might give you some ideas to implement in future updates if nothing else.

What's missing? I thought I covered all of that already.

[CharveL 0]

You haven't been listening.

Install the TIR software and take a look at what it offers for starters. It might give you some ideas to implement in future updates if nothing else.

What's missing? I thought I covered all of that already.

Ok, check off the list then...

1. Game profiles that automatically load based on the game you are playing.

2. TrueView

3. Heads view to test your profile as it would work in-game - without having to go in-game

4. Gauges view to show the acceleration of your head movements affected by the profile you're tweaking for all 6 degrees. This is great for visualizing how much movement your head will need to affect in-game head movement.

5. Ability to assign keys to Pause, Center, and Precision (handy for when you want to fine aim).

6. Ability to trap an assigned key so that games can't use it.

7. Options to Run at Startup, Run Minimized, and Close to Tray.

8. Mouse Emulation for use in non-tir enhanced apps/games.

9. Recording and Playback

10. Acceleration curve editing using 15 points along curve for fine tuning including the option to mirror when editing or shift entire curve.

That's probably not a comprehensive list but some of the main features anyway.

I thought you might have mentioned it but does your software have a feature similar to TrueView where your lateral (X) head movement is relative to the direction you're facing in-game not just left to right in relation to the webcam? This may not be very important in ArmA but for in-cockpit flight or racing sims it's essential.

[kestrel7e7 0]

6 and 9 have not been implemented, they haven't been requested and I see no practical use for them. But remember anyone can add new features in open source code.

At the very least CharveL, you should download FreeTrack, before making any further comments.

[sandzibar 0]

any possiblity of fixing the 'bring up iron sights/scope' and trackIRs head view implementation.

currently if you hit mouse2 your head/eyes will move to the sight on your rifle... rather than bringing your rifle sight to where your eyes are currently looking.

whilst people not using trackIR wont notice this.. its a bit of a pain if you are, and have the UI crosshairs switched off. you lose your focus on your target and have to readjust to where it was whilst now in ironsight/scoped mode. this can take quite a while. especially if your wep is pointing at the gound... you find that the enemy soldier is no longer in view and you have a fantastic view of the flowers/grass instead.

any other trackIR uses understand what im jabbering on about here?

[andersson 285]

Yes but I turn my body without thinking so I never had that problem, it comes so natural for me somehow

[DarkSoul 0]

i think this is intresting product.

3DV Systems