Nothing in Arma2 Seems much Different

[Inkompetent 0]

If every 49,568 member of this forum decided not to buy ARMA2 and convince 1 other person NOT TO BUY ARMA 2. That's 49,568 LOYAL customers BI just lost. And another 49,568 potential customers that will go buy some Tom Clancey game instead. That's a total of 99,136 potential sales.

We already have the original Ghost Recon and Rainbow Six: Raven Shield. What more Tom Clancy games is there nay point in getting?

[Guest Ti0n3r]

I agree on this. After reading most previews and watching a lot of WIP footage I get the impression that they're trying to make it sound like ArmA II will be the first game ever where bullets will penetrate through walls or that it's the first game ever with 20+ vehicles etc etc... Might have worked back in 2004 though.

So far I've seen nothing 'next gen' in ArmA II (remember what they called it before they changed the name to ArmA II?).

Ok, maybe they just dropped the plans on making a next generation game

[baddo 0]

The sales numbers of OFP/OFPR make ARMA look like the mentally challenged bastard child.

Hmmm... you know how many ArmA copies have been sold?

Please tell us!

[maxqubit 1]

Sales?

Elite/360 is imho the biggest 'missed opportunity' since, lets say mid 2005.

Even if they would have kept the gfx and 'just' used the power of 360 to up the viewdistance, and the max number of units and profit of the 1280x720 resolution ... Man you are talking missed opportunity big time!!! I think that would have shifted 100k copies easily and we would still play it today:) (dlc, lite editor and stuff)

Ahh, well, let's wait another year to see what ArmA2 and OFP2 will bring us 360 gamers.

[WARFIGHTER989 0]

There is always a needed to make improvements to games, nothing is perfect ever. Its true that to many people the game engine looks so much of ArmA but u cant say anything about its features from few screenshots and videos.

I will be able to play the flashpoint sequel on my 360 so yes it is perfect for me and my clan.

[WARFIGHTER989 0]

I agree on this. After reading most previews and watching a lot of WIP footage I get the impression that they're trying to make it sound like ArmA II will be the first game ever where bullets will penetrate through walls or that it's the first game ever with 20+ vehicles etc etc... Might have worked back in 2004 though.

So far I've seen nothing 'next gen' in ArmA II (remember what they called it before they changed the name to ArmA II?).

Ok, maybe they just dropped the plans on making a next generation game

Call of duty 4 and splinter cell I believe had wall piercing bullets. It made cover in COD 4 very tough to find because perks like deep impact would pierce an M1A2 and kill the person hiding behind the tank.

[stakex 0]

ArmA and ArmA II are 'evolutonary' steps..  OFP was the 'revolutionary' jump to a good thing.  

By the news releases ArmA II will have a more efficient and capable GFX system with some new features,  tighter AI path resolution and more realistic AI behaivior, upgraded animation system, RPG elements, and player skill elements.  Quite a bit of evolution when looking at the list of improvements and additions.

While you are correct that each game is not going to be as revolutionary as OFP was, alot of things BIS has done surrounding this game were very unprofessional and have lead people to feel nothing is really diffrent from ArmA.

Lets face it... in 2005 we were all but promised a next-gen, totally amazing game that would piss ArmA to shame (never once did the devs leave any question that what they were telling us about would make it into the game). Now, after being kept in the dark about the game for years... were being told that all of the next gen features are being removed, and from the info we have now, its just going to be a tuned up ArmA. Im sorry, but NOTHING that we know of in ArmA2 is going to be "next-gen", and as it stands... ArmA2 is probly going to be one of the most dissapointing games ever come release... due largely to BIS's own jumping the gun. Read an old article about "Game2" and then read the new stuff about ArmA2..... tell me what game you want to play.  

Whats more, the devs are touting things that were in OFP, and ArmA as big selling points for the game.

From the ArmA info page... "Lifelike combat simulation (bullet ballistic & deflection, material penetration, etc.); Built in mission editor; Story driven single player full of twists and surprises; Over 50 weapons and drivable vehicles; Multiplayer with large scale maps for 50+ live players"

...ALL of that was in ArmA and some OFP. Sure, there are a couple new features on their game info page, but there not next gen and have been game features for years.... but when most of your main features, are the same main features as your past games (especially a 7 year old game), thats not a good thing.

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And maxqubit, a side note here. Idk if your talking about an OFP:E 360 version or an ArmA 360 version. If your talking a 360 OFP:E version...... it would sell probly as well as, well it probly wouldn't sell at all. Its just too old now and the Xbox version didn't sell well anyway. Anyone who would have been intrested would probly already have an original version and just play that.  

If your talking a 360 version of ArmA... your giving the 360 way too much credit. First of all, the view distance would probly have to be cut if anything, not raised. ALL games on the 360 have lower view distances then the PC version, even MADDEN 08 believe it or not. The graphics would not be as sharp as they can be on a high end PC, and ArmA would probly never sell anywhere near 100k copies for the consol. Not to mention the initial release of ArmA a year ago was WAY to buggy for a consol game... only recently has the game been patched to a playable level, and by then ArmA already had a reputation for being a buggy POS that the devs rushed. Not good for sales...

Anyway, consol gamers just are not big on ArmA style games, and true ArmA fans would be more intrested in the PC version that they can play user content, which you cannot do on the 360 (missions, yea, but not MODs). If you think about it... BIS would have just wasted time and effort on developing a port that likely owuld not have been worth it. Which is probly whats going to happen with the 360 version of ArmA2... IF we ever actually see one.

[maxqubit 1]

I was talking ELITE! Meaning that IF (and that is a big IF) BIS and CM would have joined in making OFP:ELITE for 360 and releasing it Q1 2006 (like GRAW) it could have made a big impact. Essentially the only thing they would have to do extra is a bit 'nicer' gfx/animations.

They would have shifted 100k copies easily.

But no, BIS and CM take the difficult route, going for so-called spectacular games releasing it Q4 2008 ... well you have to face the competition now ... RS:Vegas, CoD4, BF:BC, heck even FC2 and/or Crysis might come to the 360 ... and that are only shooters which spring to mind directly, not to mention my time with BioShock, GTA4, Mass Effect, errrm Halo3 anyone ... Back in 2006 Q1 we didn't have this amount of games ... it was the GOLDEN opportunity to sell something

But plz, go on with the ArmA, ArmA2 route and OFP2 ... i can wait for 2008/9, but don't tell ME Elite/360 in 2006 is a bad idea, it was a EXCELLENT idea but it is an oppotunity lost (by BIS and CM)

(and of course 360 is 'a bit' less powerful than hi-spec pc, but hey, who OWNS a hi-spec pc anyway??? i like the idea of a machine esp. designed for games and devs making games for that fixed-spec machine ... you can optimize ... optimize is a word which you will never encounter in pc gaming, hmmm it is replaced by the word 'upgrading' i guess)

[shadow 6]

...ALL of that was in ArmA and some OFP. Sure, there are a couple new features on their game info page, but there not next gen and have been game features for years....

Can you please define "next-gen"? Is that something that has never been done before or is it really nice graphics or what?

Quote[/b] ] but when most of your main features, are the same main features as your past games (especially a 7 year old game), thats not a good thing.

If the main features are great things, does it matter that they are 7 years old?

Maybe I'm going blind but I dont see alot of constructive criticism here

[SaBrE_UK 0]

No you're not blind. The idea with ArmA was to create OFP 1.5, and it basically is OFP with nicer graphics to your average gamer. It easily achieved what it set out to be, and the ambition in ArmA 2 is a welcome change.

[Spoock 3]

welcome change? I think RPG elements, better AI, dynamic campaign are very interesting things

[JeRK 0]

...ALL of that was in ArmA and some OFP. Sure, there are a couple new features on their game info page, but there not next gen and have been game features for years....

Can you please define "next-gen"? Is that something that has never been done before or is it really nice graphics or what?

Quote[/b] ] but when most of your main features, are the same main features as your past games (especially a 7 year old game), thats not a good thing.

If the main features are great things, does it matter that they are 7 years old?

Maybe I'm going blind but I dont see alot of constructive criticism here

Do you read the suggestions forum? If not, please do. If yes, could you answer the threads more please?

(I'm not being offensive, many game developers don't read the suggestion forums, often because there's never anything good in them. It's rather different here though)

[zaphod 0]

... and i just want the missing vehicles back ...

.. day for day, month for month, patch for patch ...

[dm 9]

...alot of things BIS has done surrounding this game were very unprofessional and have lead people to feel nothing is really diffrent from ArmA...

You realise that constantly whining about "[un]professionalism" on a forum is oxymoronic?

many game developers don't read the suggestion forums, often because there's never anything good in them. It's rather different here though

Really it isnt. There's 1 "gem" post for every 100 threads. Gamers (myself included) dont know what they want from games, because they want everything. And that tends to make for awful, awful wishlists... (to implement even a 10th of the current wishlists would take years)

[NoRailgunner 0]

There might be something different... stay tuned or stand by for next developers blog.

Quote[/b] ]Another major feature advertised for Game 2 was RPG elements and non-scripted conversations. What has happened to them? Were they reduced or perhaps scrapped completely? You will learn more in the next episode of this blog.

[shadow 6]

Do you read the suggestions forum? If not, please do. If yes, could you answer the threads more please?

I was commenting on this thread in particular in regards to unconstructive criticism.

Yes, we do read all the suggestions but we do not have time to reply here for every suggested feature (unfortunately).

[paragraphic l 2]

Yes, we do read all the suggestions but we do not have time to reply here for every suggested feature (unfortunately).

Wow I wouldn't even expected this from BIS to do! Great to hear though

[CyDoN 0]

Havent read the posts in this thread yet, but from the title only i would say thats its too early to come into conclutions

[Tobruk 0]

I think it is pretty obvious from reading the blog on Arma2 that the product will be a working version of ARMA that will be the true squel to OPFlash, with all its RPG mission glory, plus improved performance etc. etc.

Nothing less (I hope) and nothing more.

Look at this way, when Codemasters and BIS split, BIS lost a chunk of its development $$$ stake. As a result they needed to release ARMA as is (an interim step on the way to opflash 2/ARMA2) in order to generate some cash to get the job done.

People can whine all they want about how it was unfair to release ARMA blah blah, but remember this: who else is making these kinds of military combat simulator games (not FPS games) these days??

Most other game makers have already decided that there is no money in this type of game, that is why we get MOH 1-4 and COD 1-4 etc etc. All good games but not simulators IMHO.

Thus instead of whining, recognize it for what it is and support these struggling companies. What is $50, 3-4 tickets to a bad hollywood movie.

This is also why no one is making military flight sims any more (except oleg).

[lwlooz 0]

If the main features are great things, does it matter that they are 7 years old?

I am quite insane probably , but I think it matters a lot.

The way I see it , and correct me if I am wrong , is that BIS current plan is to release a streamlined and optimized ArmA version for consoles , ArmA:Elite if you may . To not piss of the PC gamers , they call it ArmA2 and release it for the PC too. To sell it more they claim it to be the mystical game2 we all have been waiting for since the day the 1.96 patch came out. Apparently they believe that will make them billionaires because someone must have told them that consoles "are the future" and they have this weird idea that the average console gamer is totally into complex combat simulations. This is probably why they decided to go with that uber-patriotic SF Marin3zor content with a current cover design that borders on the revolting.

If this is indeed BIS longterm strategy , I personally believe that ArmA2 will be indeed their last game as it was rumoured because

for one console gamers just like to brainlessly shoot up shit to relax after a hard day at work. ArmA2 is just going to be too difficult and stressful to do that , leave alone that the campaign isn't going to be as cinematic and interesting as let's say COD4.

Furthermore most average gamers(those are the people that play consoles) go for the most hyped up game and let's face it, BIS already has a bad reputation and the publishers it will find are not going to have the money to make people come in their pants like people did with Crysis and all the other bland shooters.

So to sum up , I think BIS neither has the product nor the financial backing to successfully sell a game on the console market.

Of course they could make the game easier and more accessible to appeal to console gamers.

We all know that isn't possible tho. Why? This would extremely piss of all of us . Leaving aside the few poor misguided beings that drop in here now and then thinking this to be another bland shooter we all bought OFP because it was different. It offered a wide range of complex choices what to do , demanded you to use your imaginative part of the brain and not just train your reflexes , painted a gritty and intelligent picture of war and added an amazing editor and modability on top of it enabling to be as creative as you want. It was a vision of a bright future ahead with BIS working on trying to get ever more closer to the perfect combat simulator, a game by intelligent people for intelligent people.

7 years on ,this vision turned first into envy and hate for/of VBS, and then increasingly into frustration and disbelief at what was going on , especially after buying ArmA which forced the community to abandon everything it accomplished in 5 years and now has to recreate everything with little chance of achieving much different gameplay from what we had in the last days of OFP.

And this brings us back to the question. Yes it does matter , because I just assume people beside me also want this combat simulation to move on , be more advanced and complex in a sequel . I would hate to think that at BIS headquarter one has the idea that the Status Quo is good enough . All the thousands of suggestions in the game2 board should tell you it isn't , and it is especially not good enough if main gameplay features are concerned. The current features are great things , but I would one day like to run for cover from an artillery barrage and be able to hide in litte fire-position. I also would like to play online scenario that ingame last days or weeks , which is only practically possible if I can save and load online missions. I would like to be able to carry a rucksack or pouches in order to increase my inventory space (Sounds RPGy doesn't it) or a mortar/mortar-base and be slowed down by it. Or drive a vehicle in a cargo place(plane or ship[LCU]) and store it there or even load cargo-sling under an aircraft. This few examples of varying difficulty to implement are supposed to show that there are a lot of main features that everyone including you Shadow I guess would love to see implemented.

Now to be fair BIS are in fact planning at the moment to implement one new main gameplay feature and that is suppressive fire. Which I think is a great decision and look very much forward to . I don't mention "Reloading on the Move" as a main feature because it in itself is a rather pointless and gameplay damaging idea and would only be great if it was based on an animation system that allowed to interpolate between two states better(Run-Reload->Cancel Run,Reload-Run->Cancel Reload[Like mentioned in the other thread in the suggestions forum]) and "Firing from Vehicles" i don't mention either since that is of as much importance as swimming(little importance that is) for almost all combat scenarios. I rather had them work on something that applies to all combat situations like the damaging models of vehicles or improving how the engine takes terrain and weather into consideration(Can I move a Motorized Truck Company through muddy fields,then drive up a steep cliff,drive down another one right into a forest and continue on? In ArmA you can).

In Short: I think BIS gamers market lies with sad Sim-Gamers like me , optimizing and streamlining the old to sell it on consoles in my opinion isn't going to work. So I hope BIS just keeps its focus on introducing as many new gameplay features as they possibly can with each new release and this will make Sim-Gamers very happy , and while we might not be a big market , we won't piss off to the next hyped game and probably most are willing to spend up to 100 Euros for a Combat-Sim

[mrj-fin 0]

I would spend 500 euro to game which will have all those features what was planned in Game 2 (VBS2 isnt yet that good and missing alot of features). I dont mind buy any games this days coz my criteria has raised too big.

[shadow 6]

If the main features are great things, does it matter that they are 7 years old?

I am quite insane probably , but I think it matters a lot.

The way I see it .....

You are assuming that there will not be many new features in Arma2 because I pointed out that the age is irrelevant if the quality of a feature is good.

All I can say is calm down, all good things come to those who wait

[JeRK 0]

If the main features are great things, does it matter that they are 7 years old?

I am quite insane probably , but I think it matters a lot.

The way I see it .....

You are assuming that there will not be many new features in Arma2 because I pointed out that the age is irrelevant if the quality of a feature is good.

All I can say is calm down, all good things come to those who wait

The problem is that we don't want to play a modernized OFP, we want a game with some brand new features.

[smellyjelly 0]

If the main features are great things, does it matter that they are 7 years old?

I am quite insane probably , but I think it matters a lot.

The way I see it .....

You are assuming that there will not be many new features in Arma2 because I pointed out that the age is irrelevant if the quality of a feature is good.  

All I can say is calm down, all good things come to those who wait  

The problem is that we don't want to play a modernized OFP, we want a game with some brand new features.

And these new features should be...?

Honestly, I think the formula is fine as it is now. I'm not saying some aspects can't be improved, because they can, should, and probably will be, but other than that it's good.

[NoRailgunner 0]

Quote[/b] ]The problem is that we don't want to play a modernized OFP, we want a game with some brand new features.

That's more your personal wish not an problem

Like ArmA 2 should be "The ultimative and close-to-reality combat simulator that ever hit the pc game market!".

Isn't it better to have a game with less gameplay/performance bugs and very good edititing and modding tools?

In the end most customers prefer playing the game instead of watching most time only at nice graphic & sound features.

Let's just wait and see what happens!