3D MAX

[DaSquade 0]

Off Topic:

Quote[/b] ]Quote

model everything in o2....

Well, actually even i could use max, modo or any other kind of 3d program, i still prefure 02 after all these years. Used to model in max, but with OFP i quickly skipped it and started use o2 for all my modelling.

Why?

A. It is free.

B. It is as basic as it can get. Ok, it misses extrude, subtract and all other fancy tools, but in the end for every tool there is a work-around. Sure the pivot point isn't 100% accurate (hope the new one is more precise....or maybe it is a o2 setting?). But in the end i like it's basic form. Except for the lack of shortcut keys for rotation, scale and movement (crosses finguers BIS added at least that or the 'BETA' team had some full o2 users and they are not a bunge of importers ), i think the workflow is very good. I don't need a fancy, super hightech 3d program to model 'only' 20k max models...

C. Due to the lack of (handy tools) and the fact you almost need the hand build your model, i personnaly find it way better to controle what you build with a constant eye on the poly/tris count.

But sure it lack some features like easy reducing your model. Poor or non UV unwrapper etc...That is the only thing i trade o2 in for an other program and do the rest of the job there.

I (we) can only hope the long waiting time of the release of the new o2 has paid of, and it is not simply a O2 on steriodes (oeps did i say that out loud ).

Back On Topic:

Well if you indeed bought Max i think it would be a good start do dive into google and surf the net for some tuts. Luckly the net is filled with Max tuts, so that shouldn't be a hard one.

In the end, Max isn't that hard (for game modelling), and maybe it is the overloaded menu's that will be the thing that makes you feel lost. But it is a mather of tuts, practice and practice.

Not sure if you have a modelling background (like others said...), i hope for you or at least i hope you make good use out of it.

It is a pro-tool, so start to become a pro .

Maybe a suggestion, but try to do some speed models, meaning start on easy models and try the get comfy with the tools. Don't spend to much time on them, untill you get the hang of it. Their is no such thing as a prefect model, but there is such thing as a prefect work-flow , and that you only will have if you practice a lot...

Good luck.

[baddo 0]

Hey PaulHargreaves

If you are serious about 3D modelling then I recommend you familiarize yourself with 3D navigation devices and purchase one.

I've used such a device at work (Computer Aided Engineering) and now I can't even think of using a 3D modelling program without one. It really takes a lot of pain away from your mouse hand! I had pain in my mouse hand always in the end of a working day, but after I got a 3D navigation device it helped a lot in reducing the strain on my hand and also improved working speed.

One manufacturer, which supports also 3DS Max, is http://www.3dconnexion.com/

A 3D navigation device is not at all a big investment if you are going to spend a lot of time doing 3D modelling.

3dconnexion gives away their Software Development Kit for free so even Bohemia Interactive Studio could integrate support for the 3D navigation devices into their own 3D modelling program.

Best Wishes,

Baddo.

[Delirium 0]

MAx = bunch of pluggins put together without major rewrite.

Maya = basically is ok, if only it would be updated modelingwise. This section is so old that it makes a pain to model.

XSI = the best modeler of the top three. Quick and easy to grasp.

Modo = I don't know. I made three approaches and it really sucks. Action centers and other crap pisses the hell out of me.

Silo = pretty good, cheap, fast, still beta.

Blender = the best price to value (it's free). Seriously a way to go. Frequent updates. great UV tools.

O2 = well. Why using a stick and a stone when I have a m107?

[Dynamax 0]

i have both 3DSMAX and LightWave 3D 9, and i must say that i rather like working with LW alot more.

i find it much easier and faster to learn.

oh and Panda[PL], you can cycle through different selection modes via the space bar in LW (Vertisies, faces, edges, and volume).

[Sennacherib 0]

personnally i use wings 3d (the best program for the modelling with polygons, and an excellent uvmapper), and i use also 3dsmax for mentalray, because i don't like pov-ray, yafray or toxic.

tuts for 3dsmax:

http://www.evermotion.org/index.php?unfold=tutorials

http://www.renderosity.com/mod....on_id=3

http://www.3dtotal.com/

[Commando84 0]

max is much easier than maya at least, damn maya is like trying to learn linux check the tutorials out and try them out and you will come a long way.

[cl10k 0]

what is happening here? haven't all of you read his first post? he already bought 3DSMAX so there is absolutely no need to argue about which program we all prefer...

[cl10k 0]

sry doublepost

[blackjack-VS- 0]

I was a max user till i wanted to buy 2 licences for work...few months ago i had to choose which software i had to buy, and after a "survey" on several ,xsi convinced me with the unique price of 500$dolars for a foundation licence, all the functions it has and the fast learning curve for a max user i was. The cinema4d newest version is around 500$ to, and its an excelent software to.i guess there's no bad softwares at all at the moment on the market, but there's diferent prices for sure,compared to maya and max who are still expensive.

imho max is still the most complete/compatible package for gaming, even that xsi is getting really high level with the gigapoly feature and all those craps...but max comunity/plugins are still the strongest and will probably be.

Good luck with max and hope to see ur addons soon!

[Guest]

O2 = well. Why using a stick and a stone when I have a m107?

LOL! what a naive thing to say...!!

or mabey lets use a nuclear bomb to kill some ants... makes sense or?

Unless you have seen what is possible with just o2 alone, you may wonder why some people need high end programs just to stayon the same level as what can be made with o2. I personally dont use o2 because I have been using 3ds max since 1992. 30 percent of 3dsmax deals with the lowpoly side of things....the rest is not going to be used at all for gaming. Same with all your other highend programs..

If you really bought it... then you should use the books that came with it and go through most of the tutorial atleast once....

And I hate to break it to you....but..... Learning a 3d application is like learning how to box. If you think you will be able to box without knowing what its like to get hit in the face, you wont last very long.... Tutorials should be a bloody nose experience if you are the type of person to skip things because your too lazy.

Try to imagine SF who dont want to sweat or run for endurance... The worst is that you are making teapots and other stuff...but eventually youll get the correct motion flow through using 3dsmax...

at the end of the day your going to end up using less than 10 modifiers to get any object modeled or set up in 3ds max.

good luck

[Törni 0]

I agree that if it used only for real-time modeling for ArmA Max is a bit of an overkill.

[Delirium 0]

@djfrogstar

I wonder how are you goint to make next generation assets then. Low poly modeling is just a small bit of what you're doing in game asset developing.

How are you goint to make a normal map if all you do is low poly? How about rigging and animating?

You still in 1992 then, I guess.

Le'ts not forget that Arma is all those things capable. The only obstacle are tools.

For learning Max, there are tons of tutorials and i would suggest the following order:

1. http://www.3d-palace.com - tons of free video stuff. A good place to learn Max basics.

2. http://3dtotal.com/ - web based content

3. http://www.cgtutorials.com/c11/Modeling/newest/ - next thing for you to learn is a proper edge loop and workflow. BAsics

Now the coolest of all. It's for maya, but general technique applies:

1. http://www.thegnomonworkshop.com/dvds/mes01.html

2. http://www.thegnomonworkshop.com/dvds/mes02.html

and these are fo max

3. http://www.thegnomonworkshop.com/dvds/ijo01.html

4. http://www.thegnomonworkshop.com/dvds/ijo02.html

If you're serious about it, I suggest you go and buy them and start learning.

Also, go and register at:

http://www.tweakcg.com/ and read what's there. The best modelers' place.

[cl10k 0]

@delirium: excellent links!! especially the gnomon stuff is great! (i have organic modelling I & II) ;-)

also worth a short visit: http://www.military-meshes.com/

[Guest]

@djfrogstar

I wonder how are you goint to make next generation assets then. Low poly modeling is just a small bit of what you're doing in game asset developing.

How are you goint to make a normal map if all you do is low poly? How about rigging and animating?

You still in 1992 then, I guess.

Le'ts not forget that Arma is all those things capable. The only obstacle are tools.

@Delierium

The only obstacle are the tools? Sorry but thats paper tiger... I see islands, units,vehicles all in ARMA without tools. I do understand that people without any experience will tend to be afraid of moving into uncharted territory. The workarounds are not always fun but you get results and can make progress.

I guess if you stare at your GI render all day it will get itself into ARMA on its own..?

stuck in 1992?

Well not really, Back in 1992 I was already working fulltime as a graphic artist working on commercial pc games. Just in case you didnt know, there was not realtime 3d on the market in terms of games. And your whole game was limited to 256 colors. So if you really want to inform me of game asset developing send it via PM.

Gnomon workshop are always good

[Panda-PL- 0]

Quote[/b] ]The workarounds are not always fun but you get results and can make progress.

Without documentation we cannot use certain features. You need to know how to name selections and set up the models to make it work.

And how do you propose to make character animations without tools?

As for hipoly model... Well, it isn't really needed. You can make height maps easilly and then convert them to normal maps. Might not be 100% accurate (it depends on ones experience much more) but is a lot faster.

[nephilim 0]

im pretty sure the new oxygen wont support high poly models to derrive normal maps from...

besides is the app that important?

this whole discussion turned into a x is better than y thing..

fact is all of them are different just pic the one you can work with...

in the end it doesnt matter...

none of the tools have a button to make super cool models..

only your own abilities limit you..

some people here think that if some good modder uses a certain tool that theyll make awesome models with it aswell..

thats just pure crap..

3d apps are hammers with which you slam nails into the wall..

it doesnt matter if the hammers red, green or is made of titanium..

if you cant use it properly youll hit your fingers instead of the nail..

so please...

[ArmaVidz 0]

well the title says it all i want to start making 3d models, and to tell you the truth im a complete noob does anybody know of any good starting tutorials and what tools i need to use to make it compatable with arma also i was looking at ofp addons and i was trying to learn how to port over mods and addons (with the mod/addons authorisation of course) into arma to see how it all works.

with porting ofp mods over i already have photoshop cs2 in place and i have o2 and bulldozer but to be honest im cack at it im having trouble viewing the p3d or 3d models within the ofp o2 viewer,

im an avid arma player spending about 8 hrs a day designing missions and re-texturing (skinning troops) i would just like to get into learning how to port over opf mods and create models for the game

As an artist, I can clearly see when someone is inspired.

[Guest]

@ June 29 2007,10:32)]

Quote[/b] ]The workarounds are not always fun but you get results and can make progress.

Without documentation we cannot use certain features. You need to know how to name selections and set up the models to make it work.

And how do you propose to make character animations without tools?

As for hipoly model... Well, it isn't really needed. You can make height maps easilly and then convert them to normal maps. Might not be 100% accurate (it depends on ones experience much more) but is a lot faster.

As far as named selections.... AFAIK they can be found out through hexediting.... and yes it is a pain to do...

character animation without tools.... well.... either use OFPANIM (which is a nightmare IMO)

or test your unit with the existing animations... If you can get your unit rigged in o2 correctly you will be making progress. Like nephlim said, there is no magic button.

yeah I can imagine the new tools and how it will speed things up...

like the import export plugins for maya and max...

those are awesome....

Ozone will of course skip the workaround for having multiple UVWs without hexediting your file.

[USSRsniper 0]

Dont forget about www.3dbuzz.com   if you register you can download Video tutorials for 3ds max!

[OrLoK 20]

Hello all,

The best thing to use is the big thick tutorials manual which ships with max.

Work through it chapter by chapter and you'll have a good basic knowledge of the whole of max from the material editor to timlines etc.

Strange how all these legit owners didnt mention it before as it's difficult to miss in the box

I have had a play with LW and Maya, and I personally find Max easier to use all round, but i loved Maya's modelling cpabilities. LW, ive never been able to get my head around. But ive been using 3ds since R3 (Dos) so I'm biased .

Oh, if you got your copy digitally from the creators, you should be able to dl a pdf of the tuts.

Rgds

LoK

[Delirium 0]

Strange how all these legit owners didnt mention it before as it's difficult to miss in the box

because it sucks big time.

New age, new learning methods.

Buying such a toy, even that expensive means that owner would like to start playing with it, and not reading a book about it.

Tell me, if you were to buy a M5 would you read a 1000+ pages manual first?

[dmitri 0]

Maya's poly modelling and animation capabilities are superior to Max. In the end though, it all depends what you want to learn and eventually feel comfortable with. A good modeller\animator will be good regardless of the app he employs.

I use both, rendering and texturing in Max while modeling in Maya. Importing\exporting via obj makes working with both seamless.

[OrLoK 20]

@Delirium

You really don't like max do you?

Anyhoo, IMHO the tutorial manual was great for me, then one can dive into the other manual. I dont agree that it "sucks".

Also the "New Riders" range of max books are great.

I love my manuals, so I suppose each to their own.

True, it is nice to jump in and play (and, again) for me max is much more intuitve, wheareas I struggled with Maya, but again, thats just me.

But when one is dealing with a mid/high range apps like Maya and Max, there is so much capability there, its a shame not to have a manual detailing what one can do, even if one only uses 10pc of the prog.

As i said each to their own. At least nowadays we can share the models we make and are not stuck to proprietry model formats.

Also, I wonder if the next version of max or maya will be MayMax? It would be great if they could get the best bits of both in one prog now theyre owned by the same company.

Happy modelling

Rgds

LoK

[USSRsniper 0]

Professionals do read 1000+ pages. I like manulas, programs that dont have atleast PDF manula are bad.... By jumping in and playing around you can't get far....