Expansion: Arma: Queen's Gambit

[4 IN 1 0]

the only thing that hold me back is the price, i would but it for around 18 or 17 euro, even 20 is good enought, but 25 is a bit over for me

[Espectro (DayZ) 0]

I read in many comments that community can make better things than BIS do with tools. Why do you think so? There are many talented peoples in BIS recruited from community and I'm sure that they do their best!

I think that only 20% of new addons will ever reach technical quality of official BIS addons or will be better as BIS ones.

Many of you seem not to realize that there are many technical properties which would be completely unknown to community addonmakers without support of BIS. I assume that even if BIS model is seemingly inferior, it is because huge effort was made to make it playable and working in the engine.

That's just our experience from OFP.

There was alot of addons in OFP that was way better than the original BI ones. Some of those addons actually delivered some features that BI thought was impossible in the poseidon engine.

It's not that BI isn't talented - i'm sure they are. But 1000 talented minds works better than 10 .

I don't know why you bring up 20%? If just 1% of all addons released succeed BI addons, then we are going to have one hell of a pile of awesome addons.

[BloodOmen 0]

I read in many comments that community can make better things than BIS do with tools. Why do you think so? There are many talented peoples in BIS recruited from community and I'm sure that they do their best!

I think that only 20% of new addons will ever reach technical quality of official BIS addons or will be better as BIS ones.

Many of you seem not to realize that there are many technical properties which would be completely unknown to community addonmakers without support of BIS. I assume that even if BIS model is seemingly inferior, it is because huge effort was made to make it playable and working in the engine.

That's just our experience from OFP.

There was alot of addons in OFP that was way better than the original BI ones. Some of those addons actually delivered some features that BI thought was impossible in the poseidon engine.

It's not that BI isn't talented - i'm sure they are. But 1000 talented minds works better than 10 .

I don't know why you bring up 20%? If just 1% of all addons released succeed BI addons, then we are going to have one hell of   a pile of awesome addons.

Espectro is right, OFP's community from the start as soon as tools were released, and many of the addons where far better than the Default ones, look at the BAS Pack  

Btw thts a nice quote for the addon community, " 1000 Talented Minds Works Better Than 10 "

Also new players should read the OFP Wiki:

" A Great number of missions (10000+) created using Flashpoint's mission editor are available for download on fan pages, and fan created mods (25+) and add-ons (2000+) have already been released as well as many still in progress "

Id say theres alot more now

[ebud 18]

edit: and don't even bother about the BF series. Pieces of crap. Stupid games for people who just want quick gameplay.

A little bit offtopic

I really don't understand this things... Why the hell do you think that bf is "stupid" and arma not? They are games, people can choose what type of games they want to play, and if someone wants to play bf series (as i do while waiting for arma) you have to respect him.

Yeah, I know... offtopic. I was trying to compare expansions and my personal taste came into play. What I honestly meant was that the gameplay over the entire BF series from what I can see has not changed at all, yet they still kept pumping out expansions right and left. Honestly every expansion was really just some terrain and units? Right? Edit: Oh and a few weapons.

[Skaven 0]

ok cough cough here go my 2 cents... make it 1  

BIS wants to release an expansion, the expansion costs 25 euros ok I can afford it I have no problem with it but...

Please, fix the bugs that still exist in ARMA and please, try to give us quality and not more of the same. I'm not a modeler so more models for me to retexture is always nice and is already worth the money but there are like only 5% customers like me, people need more.

Now as stated by some and I agree with it (even if it's not my case) I think today some good 20% of addons made by the community are better than BIS ones, I won't even talk about the missions and campaigns.

I ask from this expansion the same quality of those 20% addons/missions since I'm actuallty paying for it  

[ebud 18]

Espectro is right, OFP's community from the start as soon as tools were released, and many of the addons where far better than the Default ones, look at the BAS Pack

While I agree to an extent, I have to say that all the BAS work :EDIT: THE BAS VISUAL WORK :EDIT: is crap now compared to the current ARMA VISUAL content. If BIS artists had released content as regularly as addons makers then the argument that the community can do better wouldn't be valid. Your comparing things made years after the initial game content was made. Also creating an ENTIRE game's worth of content with the same style and quality for a release is different than making a couple addons that are high end, but don't fit with much else or are a bit dodgy and don't work with other addons, or whatever.

I'll agree more with Maa. There were hundreds if not thousands of addons released, and I'd personally say less than 10% would even touch the quality of the ARMA content :EDIT: VISUALLY :EDIT:, and of that 10% the majority only appeal to a very small portion of the community or work well with the core content and other addons.

I can't wait to see what addons come out, but it will be ages before enough addons are made that come close to matching the arma content artistically and technically. I agree some content can be reskinned to higher quality now, but thats just a drop in the bucket to the entire production process. How many OFP addons were actually UVmapped, textured and configed correctly? I'm not holding my breathe assuming most addons will be done correctly or that the overall quality will get better when the tools come out. Most addons for OFP were crap :EDIT: VISUALLY :EDIT:, including many of the things I worked on over the years, and I'm guessing most ARMA addons will be crap :EDIT: VISUALLY :EDIT: as well.

Having the tools out doesn't mean the overall quality of work will rise, and again, if you can't make an addon correctly now, the tools won't help.

The tools will be out sooner or later, and saying that an expansion should take a back seat to releasing editing tools is silly.

:edited for spelling and to try and not piss off addon makers

[Espectro (DayZ) 0]

Espectro is right, OFP's community from the start as soon as tools were released, and many of the addons where far better than the Default ones, look at the BAS Pack

While I agree to an extent, I have to say that all the BAS work is crap now compared to the current ARMA content. If BIS artists had released content as regularly as addons makers then the argument that the community can do better wouldn't be valid. Your comparing things made years after the initial game content was made. Also creating an ENTIRE game's worth of content with the same style and quality for a release is different than making a couple addons that are high end, but don't fit with much else or are a bit dodgy and don't work with other addons, or whatever.

I'll agree more with Maa. There were hundreds if not thousands of addons released, and I'd personally say less than 10% would even touch the quality of the ARMA content, and of that 10% the majority only appeal to a very small portion of the community or work well with the core content and other addons.

I can't wait to see what addons come out, but it will be ages before enough addons are made that come close to matching the arma content artistically and technically. I agree some content can be reskinned to higher quality now, but thats just a drop in the bucket to the entire production process. How many OFP addons were actually UVmapped, textured and configed correctly? I'm not holding my breathe assuming most addons will be done correctly or that the overall quality will get better when the tools come out. Most addons for OFP were crap, including many of the things I worked on over the years, and I'm guessing most ARMA addons will be crap as well.

Having the tools out doesn't mean the overall quality of work will rise, and again, if you can't make an addon correctly now, the tools won't help.

The tools will be out sooner or later, and saying that an expansion should take a back seat to releasing editing tools is silly.

:edited for spelling:

Yes of course them addons is lower quality than BI ones in ArmA. The same reason that Wolfenstein 3D won't impress many young gamers as it impressed me. The BAS addons was created to OFP: ressistance and to an extend, VBS. It's a different outdated engine, so they didn't have the same technology posibilities as with the ArmA engine.

Now we have the engine, but not the tools to 'exploit it'.

Offtopic - It's also funny you should mention BAS vs ArmA, though. As the littlebirds in ArmA clearly have MUCH in common with the latest BAS ones. Yea, it's a rip-off, but a damn good one. Would have been 'smoother' if the people that made those littlebirds currently in ArmA, actually had been paid for it.

From the developers point of view, you are right - it would be silly to release the tools first and then release the expansion pack. But not for the community and I guess that in the long run, it would be a nice step to do it now, before ArmA looses much more of it's appeal and the community. Just look at OFP, the tools kept the community interested in the game, and even now, new addons are coming out for ofp allmost every day. Too bad the community was this small, but that's because most people had long forgotten OFP when the quality addons made it out to the public since the tools were released very late.

I also agree that getting the tools isn't an overall magical solution, and even with the tools we are going to see a large amount of 'crappy work' from addonmakers. But it's quite easy, let's just not download them, ey? I can ignore 10 threads with crappy addons, just so I can spot one impressive one.

I think I have much more faith in the addon community than you have, though. I'm quite sure we will see addons that is far superior to the ones BI made. The simple reason is, that an addon-hobbyist can use 100 hours creating one single addon, and BI can't. They had to have various models ready for a rushed release, so of course they took a few easy turns a couple of times. (The campaign was a bit too easy, though).

I for one can't wait till they release the tool that makes us possible to tweak the AI. There are soo many talented scripters outthere, that can make wonders with very little. Imagine what they can do using such tools. For proof, just look at OFP again and the FDF-mod. Man, that was impressive.

[Skaven 0]

Quote[/b] ]Having the tools out doesn't mean the overall quality of work will rise, and again, if you can't make an addon correctly now, the tools won't help.

Indeed, tools won't make you better they will just make it easier (supposing the tools are good).

For example, tools won't teach me how to model, unless they make auto-models This is actually something that could be sugested ahahah.

[ebud 18]

Offtopic - It's also funny you should mention BAS vs ArmA, though. As the littlebirds in ArmA clearly have MUCH in common with the latest BAS ones. Yea, it's a rip-off, but a damn good one. Would have been 'smoother' if the people that made those littlebirds currently in ArmA, actually had been paid for it.

No, the littlebirds in VBS and ARMA have nothing to do with the BAS LBs. I know who made both and if you actually look at the source files there is no comparison, the BAS versions may have more bells and whistles but the visual content isn't even close. The VBS/ARMA versions are much better IMO. I should know, lol. They have much in common only in the fact that are both the same helo, thats about it

[ebud 18]

I think I have much more faith in the addon community than you have, though. I'm quite sure we will see addons that is far superior to the ones BI made. The simple reason is, that an addon-hobbyist can use 100 hours creating one single addon, and BI can't. They had to have various models ready for a rushed release, so of course they took a few easy turns a couple of times. (The campaign was a bit too easy, though).

I for one can't wait till they release the tool that makes us possible to tweak the AI. There are soo many talented scripters outthere, that can make wonders with very little. Imagine what they can do using such tools. For proof, just look at OFP again and the FDF-mod. Man, that was impressive.

Yeah, you do have more faith than I do

I too look forward to the one good addon out of however many get pumped out and hope I like it. Addon teams like CSLA, BWMod, FDF and Frenchpoint are ones that come to mind when I think of good quality addons that will probably be made the right way. BWMod especially had some amazingly well made content. Most of their vehicles could get put in right away as they were made correctly to begin with. I can't do much more than reskinning, but from just reskinning I can see how friggin hard it will be to make addons in the future. I may end up finally becoming just a player finally now that the amount of talent and work it will take to make addons has surpassed my time and skill

And Skaven, your right the tools will probably make it easier, but as you've already proven, you can work with hi poly models, normal maps, etc and get them working already without the tools. It's really only islands that can't be done right away.

Edit : Crap I should have put these in one post.

[mattxr 9]

Ebud your forgot your awesome quailty Tonal. Its was Top of the range too.

[ebud 18]

Not really when compared to ARMA content, and most of the new TOnal content was provided by others who are much better than I am, but overall it wasn't quite up to the quality that ARMA is VISUALLY.

I just got a PM from someone who pointed out to me that my condescending attitude is probably out of line. True, true. But my opinion is based on visual content only as thats the only reference I have. I cannot grasp how hard scripting is. Configing yes, coding no. I'll just assume the scripting will continue to raise the bar as code is code. If it works it works. Visual content can always be debated.

When I said most ARMA addons will be crap, I meant it, but to be fair I should have said they will not visually attain the standard set by the core content. I'm just assuming that with the amount of work needed for the new way of addon making, not many will be better than the core content. I'm sure some will be better, but most will fall short.

I sorry if I offended anyone personally by that comment. I only specified BAS content as that was what was brought up and I worked on a lot of it visually and I know how it stacks up.

[Skaven 0]

Ebud, I started importing some models for myself exactely to start understanding how ARMA works, that way I could have an already made model so all I had to do would be to make it work and perssonaly I don't think it's that harder than OFP at least not weapons and soldiers, vehicles so far seem to be a little bit harder but like 5% not more than that again you make 1 you make 100 the worst is the first one than it gets easier and easier.

What you do need today is to have a little bit better knowledge of O2 since ARMA requires some new things but all very easy to achieve also, ARMA seems to be a little bit more picky in some things but it's just knowledge once you learn them and we are talking like 5 or 6 things tops you will just start making them automatically. For example, ARMA doesn't require the zbran and Lodnoshadows property no more and I still use them cause it's automatically for me, ARMA as some of this things too, not harder and not easier it's the same difficulty but different.

You must also learn how to make normal maps and to map your models using 1/2 textures only or learn how to use the merge texture tool instead.

I find all of this things really easy to do, at the beggining it may seem hard as it did to me but in reality once you normal map 1 or 2 models the rest is all the same you may increase or decrease the filter effect darken or lighter some spots but in reality it's really really easy, merging textures is also a piece of cake some code and a larger photoshop texture file is all you need in here.

The rest is cpp code that in my opinion is even easier than Ofp, it has more features but things are a lot clear now.

For example in OFP you had like 15 textures for a soldier, now you have 1 or 2... with normal maps if you decide to change them you have 6 being 4 of them just filters... .

Ebud you have what most of us don't have which is the hardest to achieve = Talent, you are a professional designer, sometimes when I'm doing my soldiers I think to myself ... god I which Ebud was here so he could do this stu*** pockets for me.

What as changed a lot and you know this a lot better than me, is the quality, you remenber our first days when we used the M16 model as a shotgun? ahahahah those where the days Ebud

[Maddmatt 1]

...Offtopic - It's also funny you should mention BAS vs ArmA, though. As the littlebirds in ArmA clearly have MUCH in common with the latest BAS ones. Yea, it's a rip-off, but a damn good one. Would have been 'smoother' if the people that made those littlebirds currently in ArmA, actually had been paid for it....

Why do so many people believe that? They are based off of the same real chopper, of course they are going to look similar. Besides, if you look properly you can see that they are not the same.

Quote[/b] ]

I for one can't wait till they release the tool that makes us possible to tweak the AI. There are soo many talented scripters outthere, that can make wonders with very little. Imagine what they can do using such tools. For proof, just look at OFP again and the FDF-mod. Man, that was impressive.

You don't need any special tools to edit the FSM file, besides, there are already a couple tools that can make it easier such as Flea's FSM Editor. So it's been possible to edit the AI since the game was released.

[ebud 18]

What as changed a lot and you know this a lot better than me, is the quality, you remenber our first days when we used the M16 model as a shotgun? ahahahah those where the days Ebud

Yeah, those were the days, haha.

But none of this or anything I've ranted about has anything really to do with the expansion

Back to that... heh.

Now that the screenshots of the units went over like a lead balloon, hopefully whomever is working on them realize they really need to push them beyond just repurposed exisitng content.

I was just looking at a few other games this a.m. and visually I was pretty impressed. The units I thought looked pretty cool, and I think that is what is missing. You can make units realistic, but if they also look boring, then it won't be much fun. The default ARMA units are pretty well done, but just don't have that "wow" factor and the new units really need to get grittier and more realistic, but thats just my personal opinion.

[Daniel 0]

My current problem with ArmA isn't the lack of community made British units. I'd happily play with stock ArmA units if that's all that was possible.

What I want are new comunity built islands without having to hack them together with sticky tape. Sahrani is extremely detailed and high quality, but the terrain model is extremely limiting for mission designers.    

Too many steep hills and forests to do large scale engagements and manouvers. The only decent place I've found so far is the plateau west of Pita and north of Everon.

[Major Fubar 0]

Let's please try to stick the the topic of the expansion: there are already threads for discussing problems with Arma and discussing addons.

[mad mike 0]

I am not a wizzkid with computers,i also downloaded a programe.exe that uploads the addons i downloaded but no succes for me. So i would like to have the option to costemize my character in game , for example what sort of armour,camo,head or beret the color of the beret,for a sniper and spotter a ghillie-suit,arm (Nation) patches etc...i know some of the people out there are must better with those addons ,but i am not.

So i think i am not the only one whose not a wizzkid.

Dont mean to offend someone .

Greetz Mike

[colkurtz 0]

I am not a wizzkid with computers,i also downloaded a programe.exe that uploads the addons i downloaded but no succes for me. So i would like to have the option to costemize my character in game , for example what sort of armour,camo,head or beret the color of the beret,for a sniper and spotter a ghillie-suit,arm (Nation) patches etc...i know some of the people out there are must better with those addons ,but i am not.

So i think i am not the only one whose not a wizzkid.

Dont mean to offend someone .

Greetz Mike

what has this got to do with the queens gambit expansion?

[mad mike 0]

Well mabye Bis can or did create it and put it in the addon Queens Gambit, i dont know, but it will make things a lot easier for me and i hope for some others to.

But i will wait until its released and find out.

Mabye some think this has nothing to do with the addon ,thats fine with me.

Until now i have not seen much info about it,so this all was only something a ran into and had to put it somewhere .

So if you dont like it, dont read mate.

Greetz Mike

[colkurtz 0]

Well mabye Bis can or did create it and put it in the addon Queens Gambit, i dont know, but it will make things a lot easier for me and i hope for some others to.

But i will wait until its released and find out.

Mabye some think this has nothing to do with the addon ,thats fine with me.

Until now i have not seen much info about it,so this all was only something a ran into and had to put it somewhere .

So if you dont like it, dont read mate.

Greetz Mike

When the tools come out the community will probably do all the addons that folks like you and me are crying out for.

And as BIS have said 'Tools time' is soon.

[mad mike 0]

well lets hope it does ,then i wish the community great succes making the addons !!!

I did not mean to piss you of i anyway mate ,sorry if i did.

Goodluck playing Arma and mabye we meet in a online game.

Greetz mike

[colkurtz 0]

well lets hope it does ,then i wish the community great succes making the addons !!!

I did not mean to piss you of i anyway mate ,sorry if i did.

Goodluck playing Arma and mabye we meet in a online game.

Greetz mike

Hey you pissed no one off, its a free discussion forum as i understand it.

[mad mike 0]

Oke in that case...next time i will try to piss you of..... .... .

Just fooling around mate,have a good day see you around.

Best regards Mike

[fish44 0]

Well for one thing, it seems like ArmA has been a big success in terms of sales, otherwise they would not be thinking of an addon. Very Good.

And if such gives them revenue (or potential revenue), then, im sure they will spend some of it fixing whats broken, and improving what can be improved. Very Good Also.

It that happens, then im happy. Additional content is only icing on the cake.

Bring on the Expansion!!!!