ArmA 1943

[Col. Faulkner 0]

The mg42 does not have a 50 round box, it has a 100 rounds box, and sometimes 200 rounds, putting a 50 round box on an MG42, is like putting a 10 round clip on an assault rifle.

Err...yes it does. The drum typically used by german infantrymen (in the non-mounted version) contained 50 rounds.

Yes, and the MG42 could also apparently be adapted to use

the 75  round saddle drum of the MG34. When the gun was

used in the light role, the ammo drums were commonly used.

Even when loose belts were used in the light role a 50 or 75

round (metal, non-disintegrating) belt was loaded as a

"teaser" (you can often see this practise in wartime photos

of German soldiers lugging MG42s about).

This matches best how they are likely to be used in the

game, anyway, since all weapons are "personal weapons"

in ArmA - unless you plan to script in the behaviour of gun

numbers and ammo bearers - which would be really great

(or unless you are building guns in the SF role - mounted on

tripods with boxes of ammo to hand).

(OT @JdB. I like your new sig. Maerten "Bestevaer" Tromp

is one of my all-time heroes!    )

[MehMan 0]

Might as well pipe in here:

GIJOE94: please for the love of god learn how to mod or make addons! Instead of asking everybody to do something for you, learn how to make it yourself. We've given you links to tutorials that should help you get started. Follow Faust's lead and LEARN! Nobody is going to make everything for you. If they will, then I feel sorry for them.

Make a plan of what you want and don't want in your mod, learn how to make it and make it. Don't expect anybody else to do it for you.

You're currently the kind of "modder" most people dislike; that is the guy who goes:

Hi! I'll "lead" the mod, the people I get will do the work for me.

So please, learn how to make an addon from point blank, don't download models or textures, make them yourself.

[hypno toad 0]

"Unfortunately, faust has left us due to lack of config knowlage"

unfortunatly he left mod, because he had enough of people who do nothing except telling "do this, do that"

like i have enough of people who asked me "show me just to look at sherman" and than i see screens of sherman

or someone who just send PM "when will you do this, when will you do that" - i will not cooperate in such way - MOD is cooperation of people , not "i am leader of mod",

when i will see some effects i can help again

untill now i see no effects, Faust made Opel mesh in 3d, he made textures, i made addon of it (LODs, configs) and thats how it look at the moment

i said few times , help for help (meaning of word cooperation)

i need UK uniform for my WW2 troops with UK weapons

and you told me that should i remove soldiers using UK weapons from my ww2 pack ?

you wanted to start mod with no skills , no idea about configs, file structure (questions like where do i put cpp) , no idea about computer graphics (using paint, asking what is Corel)

hyno toad, are you engineer, historician ?

how old are you, you saw few games and you think you are technical expert ?

when you graduated some technical university ?

i am engineer, i graduated MSc in 2002 and i don't feel enough skilled to call myself expert, but as i see you are with 100 round box for MG42 ,

100 rnd box has MG3

a lot of recoil, well recoil when prone is the same in all mguns in game, where do you get knowledge that recoil of mg42 is bigger than recoil of mg34, dp27, m60, pkm or other machineguns when shooter is prone and bipod touch ground

mp40 with low recoil ?

have you ever had mp40 in hand ?

mp40 has only auto mode, yes it is right, in my ww2 pack it has auto mode as i remember, mp41 had single mode (if you are talking about my mp40)

if you have good historical resources - show it please, because it can be very helpful for all addonmakers

as far a i remeber MP40 have this mechanizm under barrel to avoid SMG get inside moving vehicle (if operator fire from small window of APC)

mp40 was not heavy pistol as tomy

if it was light, it had slow rate of fire, it had long closer(or receiver - i don't know technical english too good) and it had not so small recoil comparing to other submachineguns

recoil is function of weight of gun and how good recoil breaker it has at the end of barrel

heavier weapon has lower recoil than lighter weapon with same ammo

or light weapon have good recoil breaker lik AK74 or Abakan

in WW2 time such recoil breaker had DShK, SVT40 or Tomy 1928 (have no idea about effect of it)

please do not use other games as knowledge sources

in Stalker Abakan has wrong sight, AK has wrong model details, in Max Payne 2 Romanian Romak3 rifle is called SVD, in SoF2 AK74 has mount for scope (AK74M and AK 100 series have mount for scope or special versions like AK74N)

many developers who make games don't care about realism, we try to keep it here, so if you will show us scientific worthy proofs all in configs or even models can be changed in my pack or it will be big help to other makers

to simulate all recoils , for the first we must have good technical, engineering resources

if we have no such resources - all is imagintaion

if they say they are using my addons, maybe they changed something in config, because my tomy uses different ammo than mp40 ?

i work on ARMA values, i cannot do bullet .45 1.5 stronger than 9mm para, because in this game we have no such big area of hit

look at OFP, ARMA addons structure of configs and etc.

otherwise tomy ammo will be as strong as default BIS ammo for machinegun , it is real "problem" of such military game, but it is limitation

Well, I find videos, and wikipedia are better than the word of a single person.

The mg42 uses 7.92x.57 Mauser ammunition, the size of a rifle round. If the AK-47 gives a lot of recoil, the mg-42 gives more, the bullet caries more gunpowder that the 7.62 rounds, and therefore, probably has a bit more kick to it.

I was wrong about the 100 round box, I did some research and: The MG-42 uses either 50 round boxes, or 250 round boxes. 50 round boxes are just no fun whatsoever. It is used up way to quickly. So game play wise, you should use the 250 round box. Or, even though it is not that realistic, a 100 round box.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v....search=

That was a 50 round box, it used that up in about 5 seconds. Is there any fun in that?

Look at how much recoil it has when the bipod is set up, Imagine firing that while standing, it would probably make you fall backwards. Not to mention that it is a pretty heavy gun, it is not something you can fire like an assault rifle easily.

The world war 2 era was not really a time where proper SAW's were used. The machinguns should have a fair ammounts of

recoil.

Whadya know, I found a video of a guy firing the mg42 from the standing position. I don't know about you, but I would not want to be firing long range like that.

those are blanks, too. Imagine using real rounds. It looks like he is having enough trouble as it is.

Also, you don't have to be an engineer to know that when you fire a large projectile out of a gun, you would probably have a significant ammout of recoil.

Did I ever mention that I got my info from max payne, or even video games for that matter? The only game that I had gotten any of that info from was red orchestra. I don't play max payne too much, and I have not even heard of the other ones.

The 3 games that I play frequently are, red orchestra, armed assault and Insurgency mod, for half life 2.

If you cannot make weapons do more damage to people, make it do more damage to vehicles. If an mg42 takes a 10 round burst at an airplane, it should take it out of the sky.

If an mp40 takes a ten round burst at an airplane, make it do nothing.

[Col. Faulkner 0]

I was wrong about the 100 round box, I did some research and: The MG-42 uses either 50 round boxes, or 250 round boxes. 50 round boxes are just no fun whatsoever. It is used up way to quickly. So game play wise, you should use the 250 round box. Or, even though it is not that realistic, a 100 round box.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v....search=

That was a 50 round box, it used that up in about 5 seconds. Is there any fun in that?

Look at how much recoil it has when the bipod is set up, Imagine firing that while standing, it would probably make you fall backwards. Not to mention that it is a pretty heavy gun, it is not something you can fire like an assault rifle easily.

The world war 2 era was not really a time where proper SAW's were used. The machinguns should have a fair ammounts of

recoil.

Whadya know, I found a video of a guy firing the mg42 from the standing position. I don't know about you, but I would not want to be firing long range like that.

those are blanks, too. Imagine using real rounds. It looks like he is having enough trouble as it is.

It rather depends on whether "fun" or historical authenticity

is wanted.  The fact is that 50 round drums were regularly

used by the real MG42 gunners in real combat and were

explicitly mentioned in the WW2 German infantry training

manuals, and that alone justifies their inclusion in any mod

with any pretence to authenticity.

The MG42 (and all similar belt fed squad support guns) can all

be fired from the hip if required. The WW2 German technique

was to sling it from the shoulder, couch the butt under the

right arm and hold the folded bipod legs or grab one of the

extended bipod legs.

The German squad gunners were fully expected to be ready

to participate in the final assault on a position firing their  

guns from the hip. For example, the WW2 German manual

"Ausbildungsvorschrift fuer die Infanterie" explicitly  

recommends a drum magazine on the gun and that (quote)

"...the gunner takes part in the assault, firing on the

move". Wartime evidence shows that these official

recommendations were generally followed in the field.

The WW2 German "Anleitung" for the MG42 states that

4 or 6 round bursts are to be used and continually enjoins

gunners to practise proper fire discipline. A 50 round drum

(or the 50 round belt length) is perfectly adequate when the

gunner disciplines his fire like this, and is convenient when

he needs to move rapidly. He is more likely to hit a target,

the gun is saved from overheating (thus avoiding dangerous

stoppages) and ammo is conserved.

The 250 round boxes (actually 5 of the 50 round non-

disintegrating belt lengths clipped together) were only

really practical with assistant gunners and/or when firing

from prepared positions.

Regarding recoil, I don't think there is any dispute about the

MG42 kicking hard. I have once fired a Bundeswehr MG3

(descendant of the MG42) and I remember its recoil to be

very vigorous but still controllable when fired sensibly.

Finally one would never fire any weapon from the hip

at any range much over about 50 yards and reliably expect

to hit anything (not even a submachine gun), so the

statement about "firing long range like that" is also rather

naive.

[hypno toad 0]

Fair enough, I still think it should have a 100 round box, or at least 75, so we can have a bit of fun with it. 50 rounds on a machingun that fires 1200 rounds per minute is not too fun, I don't like having to reload every 10 seconds during a big firefight.

I also think is is naive to miss-read what I was saying, lets face the facts, the team is probably not going to make animations for firing from the hip. So that only leaves the option of firing the MG42 from the shoulder. And the MG42 that I used (in armed assault, villas ww2 mod) had very little recoil, and could probably used for Rambo tactics. Which in a realistic games, is sort of annoying.

[Jarvis 0]

50 round drums were very common for the MG-34 and 42s.  It may spit out alot of ammunition, but really, you need to keep it into small bursts.  The drums were specifically made for infantry running around with an already very heavy weapon.  The saddle drums on the other hand, like seen on the MG-15, were pretty damn rare, and don't think I've ever seen a picture of one(42 with saddle drum).

Now if it can be done, a loader would be carrying around a box and an extra box of 250 round belts, though it might be wierd as once the loader opens the box, the gunner loads it, he now has to run around with a 250 round belt, and ingame that might not go too smoothly, unless you are able to animate that.

*edit*Also the 50 round belts were able to be linked together, so in reality you could have 100 150 200 and mostly(probably only) the standard 250 round.

[Jarvis 0]

Whadya know, I found a video of a guy firing the mg42 from the standing position. I don't know about you, but I would not want to be firing long range like that.

those are blanks, too. Imagine using real rounds. It looks like he is having enough trouble as it is.

Also, you don't have to be an engineer to know that when you fire a large projectile out of a gun, you would probably have a significant ammout of recoil.

Blanks? Those are not blanks man, I have the whole collection of those guys firing the thing. It clearly shows the dirt being kicked up from the rounds hitting the dirt, what blanks would those be? In terms of the assault position, it was only meant for the gunner to be able to hit or even spray a close target, say in an urban environment or running into a village and having to stop immediately and shoot an enemy soldier. The assault position is real and they were trained how to do this.

Oh by the way, what type of round a weapon fires, and the weight of that weapon drastically depends on what kind of kick back and muzzle rise you will have.

[vilas 477]

fun ? hahahaha

i remember one person that claimed that M1 Carbine is very weak

in real life it was weak rifle too

in Korean war there were accidents that US soldiers firing at long distance couldn't harm Koreans in thick winter jackets

because M1 Carbine was weak and underpowered weapon

it was good on short distance because it was stronger than Thompson (SMG is good for 50 meters), Carbine was good against not protected personnel

but when person was 250 meters away in very thick winter jacket it was not enough, for that purpose was Garand

i choose authentity than fun

when i bought ARMA i expected military simulator, not just another stupid FPS game

trained gunner from MG42 can fire short series 3-5 rounds , than MG42 is very deadly weapon,

realism is important in military simultor, for "fun" go and play RTCW, i love RTCW for fun, i put cheat on god mode and i have fun blowing all with panzerfausts

i also gave in  my Alien M41 Pulse rifle not 99 rounds but 45, because i think in such size weapon 99 rounds magazine should be much bigger, thats why i changed number of rounds in M41 magazine, because such small size magazine cannot contain 99 cardridges

realism for the first, thats why i had so many topics in Arma...disappointment topic, because i expect realisom of this game, not fun,

war is not fun, war is hard and f***, if you are not enough good you die and that is not fun

[BloodOmen 0]

Wikipedia Is Our Friend

[MehMan 0]

Wikipedia isn't the most reliable source because anybody can edit it, so I don't count it as a good source.

Also, don't you guys need an Mg42 before you start deciding on what kind of a mag will be fitted on?

[Törni 0]

I do not know if it can ever be simulated in the game correctly, but for example the switch from MG34 to MG42 meant that the recoil also increased considerably (as the new "bone saw" had a very high rate of fire) so it took a very large and strong person to hold the gun steady during assaults and remember WWII MGs used a large caliber round 7.92 Mauser in case of the German general purpose MGs.

But ArmA does not make a difference between soldiers. People in real life are of very different sizes. Some men weight only 60 kilograms or less while others 100 or more.

Without a person who understands the basic configs you are asking for trouble. But they are text files and can be learned with a decent amount of pain  

EDIT: If you are going after the entire WWII even the German vehicles are going to keep you occupied for a while, since there surely are a plenty of variants (event of the most common ones - PzkpfwIII, PzkpfwIV etc. the list goes on...)

Quote[/b] ]war is not fun, war is hard and f***, if you are not enough good you die and that is not fun

Or takes sometimes just one slip or mistake. One wrong step. And on the top of that you most propably are extremely tired, stressed and hungry.

EDIT 2: You should also include the changing of barrels for MG42s.

[GIJOE94 0]

Hi folks. I'm back from some important buisness. Right now, we need an addon maker, a texturer and mainly a config writer. So if you'r one of these please join us.

[Zarele 0]

lol, you guys keep amazing me

[hypno toad 0]

fun ? hahahaha

i remember one person that claimed that M1 Carbine is very weak

in real life it was weak rifle too

in Korean war there were accidents that US soldiers firing at long distance couldn't harm Koreans in thick winter jackets

because M1 Carbine was weak and underpowered weapon

it was good on short distance because it was stronger than Thompson (SMG is good for 50 meters), Carbine was good against not protected personnel

but when person was 250 meters away in very thick winter jacket it was not enough, for that purpose was Garand

i choose authentity than fun

when i bought ARMA i expected military simulator, not just another stupid FPS game

trained gunner from MG42 can fire short series 3-5 rounds , than MG42 is very deadly weapon,

realism is important in military simultor, for "fun" go and play RTCW, i love RTCW for fun, i put cheat on god mode and i have fun blowing all with panzerfausts

i also gave in my Alien M41 Pulse rifle not 99 rounds but 45, because i think in such size weapon 99 rounds magazine should be much bigger, thats why i changed number of rounds in M41 magazine, because such small size magazine cannot contain 99 cardridges

realism for the first, thats why i had so many topics in Arma...disappointment topic, because i expect realisom of this game, not fun,

war is not fun, war is hard and f***, if you are not enough good you die and that is not fun

Well, how about you make 2, the heavy MG42 gunner, and light MG42 gunner, if it is possible you could make the heavy mg42 less mobile, kind of like you are carrying an RPG. Where is is a bit harder to turn.

And in ammo crates make both versions of the ammo (except you need to be the right kind of gunner).

Though it may sound unrealistic, it isn't really. Because if your purpose is to use the 250 boxes, then you will be using them.

Just a side note, you should probably not focus too much on realism, it can really kill the game play. You can be killed way too frequently, You could be an artillery loader, reloading an artillery cannon for hours on end. If armed assault was completely realistic, you may end up doing just that. If you are looking for realism I suggest that you make some reloader positions in tanks and large weapons... wouldn't that be so realistic Sitting in a tank, not seeing what is happening outside. Or getting any action whatsoever. Now that sounds like some good old fashioned fun.

[hypno toad 0]

Wikipedia isn't the most reliable source because anybody can edit it, so I don't count it as a good source.

Also, don't you guys need an Mg42 before you start deciding on what kind of a mag will be fitted on?

I hate it when people say that about wikipedia. The point of wikipedia is so people can edit it. If you have an error in your information, there are generally 50 other people looking at the page, and then it gets fixed right away.

And don't say the info is unreliable. It is definitely more reliable than the word of one person. Unless you can present solid proof, we ill just quote wikipedia.

[malick 0]

I just had a great time reading through these pages and must admit that all of this is quite funny indeed.

At first, I was quite interested, because OFP/ArmA would make wonderful WW2 simulators, afterall.

It seems amazing that you have "started" a mod without even knowing what, where, when, or how you were going to do things. Come on, guys...

Do you even know something about the second world war, at all ? Except from empty references, like movies, games and wikipedia ? I'm talking historical and technical references. You know, books, not guts... Don't do things as you would like them to be, but as they are or were.

Many people here are willing to help, advise and even give you part of their work. Treat them decently.

And by the way, remember that thanks to wikipedia, the population of elephant has tripled in 2006. Way to go !

(thanks Stephen Colbert )

Malick

[hypno toad 0]

Once again, people are being ignorant by saying that books are just as reliable as wikipedia. And yes, I am reading a war book right now.

Reading a book does not make you more reliable than somebody who reads wikipedia.

[BraTTy 0]

I don't think books are very reliable.

For example I grew up in American schools, our books don't talk about anything embarassing to us. Parts are ignored.

History teaches us to be proud

On the same note, I have been collecting Pacific material for years now.

[GIJOE94 0]

Bratty, about your pacific request we will have one. We just need to have some pacific island made (By the guy who's currently doing us a new island) and possibly pacific ships, planes ect. Scince you know so much about the pacific mabey you could help us?

[Sekra 10]

So now you're going to include the pacific theatre as well? wow. You're allready doing more stuff than any other ww2 mod for ofp ever even dreamed of. And they even knew how to make mods and still most of them never reached the point where they aimed at before ArmA was released. You DO realise that the US was fighting against Japan in the pacific and not germans? That would mean a whole new set of soldier models, weapons and all the other equipment.

In my eyes, this "mod" is turning out to be more like a silly fictional campaign with very little historical accuracy regarding equipment and which uses a bunch of addons made by a bunch of people who are not directly involved with the mod. You seem to be lacking any realistic goals with this "mod" and having just an Opel Blitz early alpha model wip you're a very long way of even thinking of adding a new theatre to the package. This is getting totally ridiculous.

[Santosa 0]

Hi folks. I'm back from some important buisness. Right now, we need an addon maker, a texturer and mainly a config writer. So if you'r one of these please join us.

have you read the above posts at all?

[vilas 477]

@ Bratty

"For example I grew up in American schools, our books don't talk about anything embarassing to us. Parts are ignored."

nice, i heard that in some of western coutries children are taught about "Polish death camps" while they were German camps on occupied PL territory, such thing in my country is a crime in law codex

for exapmle people in Russia don't know that Stalin was in agree with Hitler and they both attacked Poland

HItler attacked 01-09-1939, USSR attacked 17-09-1939

USSR and Third Reich were enemies since 06-1941 ,but for almost 2 years they were occupants and commited many crimes

yes different level of history makes many problems

sorry for offtopic, ,but Bratty You said something important

it is important problem :/

lets back to the topic:

Santosa

dear Santosa - important question is not if someone read something, but how much someone understand from what he has read

i met in my life some people who read but don't understand :[

best example - text about Jukka "unknown reasons" on one forum and on this forum "lack of config knowlage" :]

i wonder what will be reason of my non-cooperation after some posts ? lack of scripting abilities ?

Jukka is modeler, he don't need config knowledge

if he will find time and fun he will do that Blitz addon himself without any leadership on head

what concerns Opel Blitz - Jukka made mesh and textures, i made addon (config, LODs, memory points)

omg...

[GIJOE94 0]

Jukka didn't make the textures, faust did. By the way vilas, could you help me with the kuble wagon please? I've got it in the editor, but not in the game.

[Deathstruck 375]

[GIJOE94 0]

I am tryin, just need to learn more about configs. I can only get an addon to show up in the editor. When I push preview, the game crashes. I need more help with that.