Mapfact releases: AH-64A and CH-47D v1.08

[mikefictiti0us 0]

Quote[/b] ]and I have yet to see ANYONE do a better FLIR system then Mapfacts has achieved.

visit youtube though it's not released anyway.

_http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=rc7XXGFWh_M

That's mine. All it is is a combination of a setAperature setting (which, as far as I know, was first implemented in Mapfact Air) and units with white textures, to fake the thermal look. It's great for SP use, but that's about all.

I'm hoping someone might be able to work out how to implement FLIR

It's shader based, so it can be used in MP.

I don't think they view through the MFD to see what they're aiming at. In the gunner's seat, theres an optic of some sort that I would think they use.

True, but the pilot and co-pilot can select the TADS screen on their MFD's.

[Gargantua 0]

btw, i remember i saw color thermal vision for vbs2 too, but can't find a shot

Quote[/b] ]It's great for SP use

then what's holding the release ? if you can't make an ac130 - make it for apache, will be cool too just like in that video

[miles teg 1]

It requires all addons to have white hidden textures if I understand correctly.  SFC. Itzhak was messing around with a similar system.   Its cool but doesn't work with 3rd party addons unless everyone starts implementing the hidden textures and that FLIR system in their addons.  

Anyways, Mike, you can correct me if I'm wrong about that.

As for the gameplay differences, the main one would be increased armor levels for the Apache, but other then that no.  However if realism is not the goal then we should all be satisified with the BIS blackhawks in ArmA because after all anything added to them or changed doesn't change what they do in the game.  Just like the Mapfacts Apache.  Any updated textures still doesn't change anything as far as what it does.  So why bother updating them?

Well for some of us, we actually like to use the type of aircraft/vehicle/equipment that is used today by whatever country's military that we are interested in simulating.

But whatever the case, what matters is what the mapfacts members want to do.  If they want gee-whiz graphics and high poly models, then that's their call.  Vice versa if they want to focus on realism as far as they can take it in ArmA.

All we can do is let them know what we'd like to see by asking them nicely....and not give feedback in the very ugly way Mr. Lepardi did it when he said:

"Tried it and removed. Sounds sucked, and effects look nothing like IRL videos."

That was just outright rude and overall a stupid comment.  To me the FLIR while not perfect, does resemble fairly closely what videos show of the real thing.  It's vastly improved over looking at everything through NVG's only.  

At any rate, such comments are what often cause great addon makers to get very pissed off and just leave the community.

Chris G.

aka-Miles Teg<GD>

[Lepardi 0]

"Tried it and removed. Sounds sucked, and effects look nothing like IRL videos."

That was just outright rude and overall a stupid comment.  To me the FLIR while not perfect, does resemble fairly closely what videos show of the real thing.  It's vastly improved over looking at everything through NVG's only.  

At any rate, such comments are what often cause great addon makers to get very pissed off and just leave the community.  

Chris G.

aka-Miles Teg<GD>

I'm not trying to piss anyone off, that's just how it is. The 30mm cannon was what I was talking about, it shoots everything with a 100% accuracy, and when hitting something the effect is only a little amount of dust rising from the ground. The sounds were nothing compared to IRL guncam videos.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJw27Nw3LAk&fmt=18

That is exactly what I was looking for. Can you already download that fix?

[Gargantua 0]

Quote[/b] ]That was just outright rude and overall a stupid comment.

maybe not as constractive but fair. i'm really bored to see 'wow. it's superb!!!' on every addon released here, no matter if it's crappy wip or smth. I don't believe that it reallu helps. in fact i believe there's no need to improve if noone critisize the wrook. that's my point.

[xnodunitx 0]

That depends on the range, if I recall correctly mapfacts AH-64 set was short range attack mostly, it is true that the M230 spreads, however what you see in the video that remake was depicting was done over long range.

(Also its inaccurate because the M230 optics are viewed through the ORT (Optical Relay Tube) that sits infront of the gunner, so it would mostly be clear aside from the reticle and various other integrated bits. Unless it was a Block III AH-64D which uses TEDAC instead of ORT, http://www.lockheedmartin.com/data/assets/12953.jpg however we can see that its still obviously (or should be) different from a multi functional display.

I'll even go further in stating what SHOULD be the obvious, the AH-64A has no MFD. http://gunsagogo.org/0009/0094.jpg gunners/co-pilot cockpit.

Pilots cockpit- http://gunsagogo.org/0009/0108.jpg. The only thing "close" to an MFD is the pilots VDU (Video Display Unit) which is the screen that rests in the upper center (which also seems to be in the wrong place on the cockpit texture...) it's primarily connected to the PNVS but can also be adjusted to view the TADS but even if you were to have it centered around the optic then it would still be wrong)

And also not to crap on anyones parade but I think the wrong people are getting the credit as per is the basis of the BIS AH-64 remakes. The texterior texture was done by Helifreak- http://ofp.gamepark.cz/index.php?showthis=5519 Which Mapfact DID state in the README, so my hats off to you guys.

[miles teg 1]

Looks good in the video, but the only problem is that the sound seems like the ones based off of the gun camera recordings in which the audio of the gun firing is coming through that little headset mic.  

In other words, what it sounds like there may be entirely different then what it sounds like if you're on the ground and a Apache flying overhead is firing its cannon.  

I've not heard an Apache's cannon firing, but I have heard similar types of cannons like the Bradley's 25mm bushmaster cannon and it sounds much heavier sounding.  

But then again even most video recordings of weapons firing have crappy audio that doesn't sound much like the real thing and even worse when digital video/audio compression lops off a big chunk of bass frequencies.

Still... it doesn't sound horibble on the video. Dial in a little more bass eq on it in a sound editor and it would probably be fine.

At any rate, until then, the MapFacts Apache is still I think quite nice overal even if the model/textures aren't as pretty as what we are accustomed to.   Its nice actually having an Army helicopter providing CAS instead of just the USMC Super Cobra.  

What would be really super is if someone made a standalone FLIR system for both aircraft and a tanks that addon makers could plug into their addons with a little tutorial on what to add into your vehicle's config.

Even better if it could also be used via a mission editor script so that a mission maker can add it to BIS aircraft/vehicles.

But anyhoo...  I just hope that someone will update the Apache with a nice AH-64D Longbow model and hopefully with that updated FLIR system seen on that video if it all works well and doesn't need every addon to have hidden textures for it to work properly.

Chris G.

aka-Miles Teg<GD>

[xnodunitx 0]

If somebody does decide to make an AH-64D with, please for the love of god adjust the model to be accurate.

[mikefictiti0us 0]

Ah, you're right xnodunitx. Silly of me not to check before putting the MFD overlay on the AH-64A. I'll have to fix that.

Miles, the sound is indeed from the actual gun cam recordings. I've looked everywhere for videos that have clear M230 sounds recorded from an external source but no luck as of yet. I did take your advice and increased the bass in CEP, and it does sound better.

Lepardi, nope, I haven't uploaded it anywhere yet. I need to find out how to move the current weapon/ammo count to the right of the radar before I post it. I know how to move Alt. and Speed indicators, just not weapons.

[.kju 3244]

@mikefictiti0us:

Check latest trueMods. Rg changes the position of current weapon

name + mag + bullet count.

[xnodunitx 0]

Ah, you're right xnodunitx. Silly of me not to check before putting the MFD overlay on the AH-64A. I'll have to fix that.

Ah thats okay, it happens, the important thing is that you are taking the steps to correct this error and I'm glad to see that..you don't know how glad I am to see that...

By the way thats quite a funny avatar you have, brings back some 'fond' memories.

By the way if you are looking for sounds of the M230 its probably best to get them from the outside, if I remember correctly Arma cannot distinguish interior and exterior sounds as much as mufflers but in the long run if you have the guncams digital recording then it's going to sound rather bad from the outside.

The only problem with that is that most video's showing the M230 in use have music behind them or are lower quality however

an example of one with music (the only thing being shot here is a vehicle derelict) And you only hear it for one closeup pass before the video slows down..not very great but it gives you an idea of what to look for.

But I'll let you know if I come across anything..PM if it has anything....that normally wouldn't be allowed under forum rules but has what you need....(gah watching all these video's makes me want to get an AH-64D out with Franze's help..)

[agent556 5]

I wonder if it will be possible to make the PNVS as well. It's possible to give the pilot an optic as well as proven by Franze's F18 pack... Would be golden if it can be moved by using the hat switch or 'free head movement' to make it possibly compatible with TrackIR as well.

[xnodunitx 0]

We had PNVS in OFP and in our Arma testbed, the effect is having one view higher then the other and both zoomable, extremely helpful for maneuvering in tight spaces.

The problem we found in our testbed is that the pilot apparently cannot have multiple turrets so the PNVS turning wasn't workable, we also decided against having the PNVS and TADS turning together as it was less accurate and by having the PNVS static it fit even more since the pilots view was generally straight forward.

Now the problem that arises IF you can get this to work is that unless you could switch the helicopter into hover and then change the movement to PNVS you'd wind up crashing since the PNVS movement and helicopter movement would be integrated together (Unless you can tie them together

So that general mouse move controls the PNVS in hover mode and you can use the turning guys to spin the helicopter around without changing position.

Now if only we could have it on the VDU, heheh.

[mikefictiti0us 0]

Thanks for that Q, I checked the scripts and found the command. Now I just need to figure out how to enlarge the text and get it to appear solely when the gunners optics are enabled. I'm terrible at scripting, and it takes me a painful amount of time to figure out stuff that experienced scripters could pull off in minutes.

By the way thats quite a funny avatar you have, brings back some 'fond' memories.

Hah, I have a love/hate relationship with BF2. It's probably the only game I play that, at times, has the ability to frustrate me to the point of wanting to smash my keyboard.... but I still keep going back for more.

Anyway, thanks for keeping an eye out for quality sounds, it's much appreciated. That video would have been perfect if not for the music. I tried to filter it out with Cool Edit Pro, but it's simply too loud. Removing the music makes the M230 sample sound far worse than those that I'm currently using.

Also, I posted a thread in the scripting help subforum, but I probably should have just posted my question here. My question was is it possible to get the optics view to shake when the 30mm is being fired?

[xnodunitx 0]

Oh? What's your character name? Might have to try fighting with and against you some time.

[subs17 9]

This mod rocks

[mikefictiti0us 0]

Oh? What's your character name? Might have to try fighting with and against you some time.

Same as my username, though I won't be able to play with you if you're not in Australia.

It requires all addons to have white hidden textures if I understand correctly. -- Its cool but doesn't work with 3rd party addons unless everyone starts implementing the hidden textures and that FLIR system in their addons.

You have to create a low-poly "skin" around the model, make it a hiddenselection, and have it enable\disable when FLIR is turned on and off. Obviously not MP compatible, as well as the fact that the low-poly skins only look good from a distance.

It has issue's as well and I haven't figured out how to get around them. That, and the file size for FLIR alone (default BIS units only) would be something like 100mb, so it's really not worth it.

Having a set of units with white textures specifically for use with FLIR mode is the most practical way to fake thermals on AI units at the moment.

There's a guy I've been talking to on YouTube who is experimenting with another way to achieve fake thermals without having to edit models and textures. It looks great but, because of some kind of limitation to the game/scripting engine, it only works with a few units at a time.

[Lepardi 0]

This mod rocks

No, it doesn't.

[subs17 9]

I wonder if its possible to add a WHOT/BHOT switch and put the TI in vehicles like the Cobra, M1 and Striker?

[xnodunitx 0]

Hmm..white hot and black hot swapping might be possible if there is a way to invert the colors.

Also why is that Mike? LAN mostly or did something happen to BF2 while I'v been gone?

[mikefictiti0us 0]

Also why is that Mike? LAN mostly or did something happen to BF2 while I've been gone?

Because I'd have a terrible ping on overseas servers.

I wonder if its possible to add a WHOT/BHOT switch and put the TI in vehicles like the Cobra, M1 and Striker?

Oh it's possible, using edited models, setAperature and setObjectTexture :

(Yes, I'm still using the same MFD overlay, xnodunitx It's actually starting to annoy me now, don't know why I haven't switched it...)

[Benoist 0]

Could you release that?

[mikefictiti0us 0]

Could you release that?

Heh, not yet. I might post two or three sample, FLIR-enabled models with a version of Mapfact's FLIR script that has WHOT/BHOT modes in a week or so. Depends on how long it takes me to clean up some of the problems it has. It'll probably still have problems when I post it, but eh...

There's some interesting possibilities as well -- it's possible to edit and script a vehicle so the engine area turns slightly white when the engine is turned on. You could script it so that it uses higher gradient white textures over time, thus simulating a build up of heat.

Ed : On a side note, does anyone know of a way to apply one model to every unit in the game (and have them animate in synch) without editing their individual models?

[Alex72 1]

Wow Mike! That is whats have been missing in arma. Damn that looks nice. Hope you get it in a state that can be released. Good luck with it.

Alex

[modemmaik 53]

...

You have to create a low-poly "skin" around the model, make it a hiddenselection, and have it enable\disable when FLIR is turned on and off. Obviously not MP compatible, as well as the fact that the low-poly skins only look good from a distance.

It has issue's as well and I haven't figured out how to get around them. That, and the file size for FLIR alone (default BIS units only) would be something like 100mb, so it's really not worth it.

Having a set of units with white textures specifically for use with FLIR mode is the most practical way to fake thermals on AI units at the moment.

There's a guy I've been talking to on YouTube who is experimenting with another way to achieve fake thermals without having to edit models and textures. It looks great but, because of some kind of limitation to the game/scripting engine, it only works with a few units at a time.

I do not know, weather you are aware of Mateck's invention about "custom skins" Mateck's M1A1 (HA) Thread.

This way only minor modifications to the model is needed. I think that linker split already uses it for some kind of automatic camo switching on his tropical island. I also use it for the T-72 ERA project and a follow up M1 Abrams / M1A1 project.

This concept enables access to the textures, where the areas are already defined as hiddensections, so this should be an easy way to apply white or black textures while FLIR active.

I am a bit puzzled about your MP-incompatible statement. I regard FLIR as a local function only, so no MP implementation is needed, I think