BIS needs to decide...

[Messiah 2]

just because it was in flashpoint doesn't make it suitable for Armed Assault. Many if not most of the flashpoint models used a horrible amount of textures per vehicle, and would be more effort that its worth to convert... hence why they probably havn't made an appearance, and why we also have a few rehashed VBS1 models in arma.

[R0adki11 3949]

Any how why does Bis need to decide on what its going for, its not going to effect game play is it now? Anyhow as soon as the Modding tools are released the Mod teams can sort out the realism issues and correct or add to the arsenal of toys already in game, and we will then enjoy all the lovely mods that will keep the game alive for at least 5 yrs, just like good old flashpoint

[Fred DM 0]

just because it was in flashpoint doesn't make it suitable for Armed Assault. Many if not most of the flashpoint models used a horrible amount of textures per vehicle, and would be more effort that its worth to convert... hence why they probably havn't made an appearance, and why we also have a few rehashed VBS1 models in arma.

true, but come on, some of those Flashpoint vehicles would suit the ArmA setting way better than what we currently have in ArmA (Kamov, Harrier, Su-34); i'm talking about the Hind, the A-10 and the Su-25.

in addition, the CH-47 would also be a great addition to the US Army. or make it a Sea Knight for the Marines.

[Dallas 9]

http://community.bistudio.com/wiki/ArmA:_Military_Forces

Quote[/b] ]

(-) 15th Marine Expeditionary Unit / 15 MEU ([[1]])

(-) 3rd Battalion, 1st Marines (3/1)

6 MBT M1A1 "Abrams"

2 APC M113

2 ICV "Stryker" M2

2 ICV "Stryker" MK19

2 ICV "Stryker" TOW

1 HMMWV "Hummer"

2 HMMWV "Hummer" M2

1 HMMWV "Hummer" TOW

1 HMMWV "Hummer" MK19

4 AA-Tank "Vulcan"

1 Patrolboat MG (RHIB)

1 Patrolboat MG + Grenadelauncher (RHIB 2 Turret)

2 Dinghy CRRC

(-) Medium Helicopter Squadron 166 / MHS 166

2 AH-1Z "Cobra"

2 AH-6 "Little Bird"

2 MH-6 "Little Bird"

(-) Marine Aircraft Group 14, MAG-14

2 AV-8B "Harrier" (AMRAAM or GBU)

(-) MEU Service Support Group 15 / MSSG-15

1 Truck 5t

1 Truck 5t Trooptransport

3 Truck 5t Repair

3 Truck 5t Ammunition

3 Truck 5t Refuel

3 M113 Ambulance

6 Ari M119

4 AA "Stinger"

20 LAW M136

5 AT "Javelin"

(-) National Guard, 28th Infantry Division, 2nd Battalion -

104th Aviation ([[2]])

1 X UH-60 "Blackhawk"

2 X UH-60 "Blackhawk" (FFAR)

[Fred DM 0]

http://community.bistudio.com/wiki/ArmA:_Military_Forces

Quote[/b] ]

(-) 15th Marine Expeditionary Unit / 15 MEU ([[1]])

(-) 3rd Battalion, 1st Marines (3/1)

6 MBT M1A1 "Abrams"

2 APC M113

2 ICV "Stryker" M2

2 ICV "Stryker" MK19

2 ICV "Stryker" TOW

1 HMMWV "Hummer"

2 HMMWV "Hummer" M2

1 HMMWV "Hummer" TOW

1 HMMWV "Hummer" MK19

4 AA-Tank "Vulcan"

1 Patrolboat MG (RHIB)

1 Patrolboat MG + Grenadelauncher (RHIB 2 Turret)

2 Dinghy CRRC

(-) Medium Helicopter Squadron 166 / MHS 166

2 AH-1Z "Cobra"

2 AH-6 "Little Bird"

2 MH-6 "Little Bird"

(-) Marine Aircraft Group 14, MAG-14

2 AV-8B "Harrier" (AMRAAM or GBU)

(-) MEU Service Support Group 15 / MSSG-15

1 Truck 5t

1 Truck 5t Trooptransport

3 Truck 5t Repair

3 Truck 5t Ammunition

3 Truck 5t Refuel

3 M113 Ambulance

6 Ari M119

4 AA "Stinger"

20 LAW M136

5 AT "Javelin"

(-) National Guard, 28th Infantry Division, 2nd Battalion -

104th Aviation ([[2]])

1 X UH-60 "Blackhawk"

2 X UH-60 "Blackhawk" (FFAR)

what should that tell us? that they're all Marines? they're not. they're wearing ACU, using Strykers, carrying M-4s and talking about "them Marines". they're Army.

besides, a MEU wouldn't be stationed on an island taining allied troops. that's what the Army does, not the Marines.

[wamingo 1]

I wonder how many of those who agrees with the OP are not american.

[avman 0]

Don't get me wrong. I like the Mods and addons that the community brings to the game... But I don't like having to go out and try and find all the Mods and addons that a server is using just so I can play a mission. If the Vehicles were included in the game to begin with there would be much less confusion and trouble.

In OFP I hated downloading a really cool mission and then having to scour the web to find and download all the vehicles that were needed to play the mission properly....

I guess I was just hoping that BIS would have included everything from OFP and then added MORE. Like just Imprve upon what was already so good in OFP. It just feels like 2 steps backwards in the vehicles and items category, compared to what we we used to having in OFP.

[Clavicula_nox4817 0]

The game's campaign clearly portrays an understrength Stryker Brigade Combat Team that gets assisstance from the Navy.

[Fred DM 0]

The game's campaign clearly portrays an understrength Stryker Brigade Combat Team that gets assisstance from the Navy.

the Marine Corps . there may be a mix of Marines and Army in the game, but there sure aren't any Navy units.

[Fred DM 0]

Don't get me wrong. I like the Mods and addons that the community brings to the game... But I don't like having to go out and try and find all the Mods and addons that a server is using just so I can play a mission. If the Vehicles were included in the game to begin with there would be much less confusion and trouble.  

In OFP I hated downloading a really cool mission and then having to scour the web to find and download all the vehicles that were needed to play the mission properly....  

I guess I was just hoping that BIS would have included everything from OFP and then added MORE. Like just Imprve upon what was already so good in OFP. It just feels like 2 steps backwards in the vehicles and items category, compared to what we we used to having in OFP.

and with that i totally agree! nothing pisses me off more than finding a great mission/campaign only to discover that it won't run as long as i don't download a dozen vehicles, weapons and units first.

that system sucks. either put everything in one package or use only the units in the basic game that everyone has. and that's why it would be great if BIS included as many vehicles and units as possible.

[weegee_101 0]

http://community.bistudio.com/wiki/ArmA:_Military_Forces

Quote[/b] ]

(-) 15th Marine Expeditionary Unit / 15 MEU ([[1]])

(-) 3rd Battalion, 1st Marines (3/1)

6 MBT M1A1 "Abrams"

2 APC M113

2 ICV "Stryker" M2

2 ICV "Stryker" MK19

2 ICV "Stryker" TOW

1 HMMWV "Hummer"

2 HMMWV "Hummer" M2

1 HMMWV "Hummer" TOW

1 HMMWV "Hummer" MK19

4 AA-Tank "Vulcan"

1 Patrolboat MG (RHIB)

1 Patrolboat MG + Grenadelauncher (RHIB 2 Turret)

2 Dinghy CRRC

(-) Medium Helicopter Squadron 166 / MHS 166

2 AH-1Z "Cobra"

2 AH-6 "Little Bird"

2 MH-6 "Little Bird"

(-) Marine Aircraft Group 14, MAG-14

2 AV-8B "Harrier" (AMRAAM or GBU)

(-) MEU Service Support Group 15 / MSSG-15

1 Truck 5t

1 Truck 5t Trooptransport

3 Truck 5t Repair

3 Truck 5t Ammunition

3 Truck 5t Refuel

3 M113 Ambulance

6 Ari M119

4 AA "Stinger"

20 LAW M136

5 AT "Javelin"

(-) National Guard, 28th Infantry Division, 2nd Battalion -

104th Aviation ([[2]])

1 X UH-60 "Blackhawk"

2 X UH-60 "Blackhawk" (FFAR)

what should that tell us? that they're all Marines? they're not. they're wearing ACU, using Strykers, carrying M-4s and talking about "them Marines". they're Army.

besides, a MEU wouldn't be stationed on an island taining allied troops. that's what the Army does, not the Marines.

The LAV and the Stryker are from the same family, the major difference being the LAV has more armor than the Stryker. I think its more or less just an error on BIS part than anything else. Also, at the time that BIS was probably planning, the Marines were in talks about buying some Strykers for their Expeditionary units (and I think they did in fact do this).

[Clavicula_nox4817 0]

The game's campaign clearly portrays an understrength Stryker Brigade Combat Team that gets assisstance from the Navy.

the Marine Corps   . there may be a mix of Marines and Army in the game, but there sure aren't any Navy units.

Marines are part of the Navy and don't have their own branch.

[hellfish6 7]

http://community.bistudio.com/wiki/ArmA:_Military_Forces

Quote[/b] ]

(-) 15th Marine Expeditionary Unit / 15 MEU ([[1]])

(-) 3rd Battalion, 1st Marines (3/1)

6 MBT M1A1 "Abrams"

2 APC M113

2 ICV "Stryker" M2

2 ICV "Stryker" MK19

2 ICV "Stryker" TOW

1 HMMWV "Hummer"

2 HMMWV "Hummer" M2

1 HMMWV "Hummer" TOW

1 HMMWV "Hummer" MK19

4 AA-Tank "Vulcan"

1 Patrolboat MG (RHIB)

1 Patrolboat MG + Grenadelauncher (RHIB 2 Turret)

2 Dinghy CRRC

(-) Medium Helicopter Squadron 166 / MHS 166

2 AH-1Z "Cobra"

2 AH-6 "Little Bird"

2 MH-6 "Little Bird"

(-) Marine Aircraft Group 14, MAG-14

2 AV-8B "Harrier" (AMRAAM or GBU)

(-) MEU Service Support Group 15 / MSSG-15

1 Truck 5t

1 Truck 5t Trooptransport

3 Truck 5t Repair

3 Truck 5t Ammunition

3 Truck 5t Refuel

3 M113 Ambulance

6 Ari M119

4 AA "Stinger"

20 LAW M136

5 AT "Javelin"

(-) National Guard, 28th Infantry Division, 2nd Battalion -

104th Aviation ([[2]])

1 X UH-60 "Blackhawk"

2 X UH-60 "Blackhawk" (FFAR)

Whomever made that Order of Battle is a goddamned idiot and has absolutely no idea what they're talking about.

[hellfish6 7]

This goddamned idiot made a double post. My bad.

[Col. Faulkner 0]

Whomever made that Order of Battle is a goddamned idiot and has absolutely no idea what they're talking about.

Yes, it doesn't make much sense to call them 3/1 Marines

when almost all the equipment in their TO&E is Army (in the

real world). Oh well, in the ArmA virtual universe clearly the

US Marine Corps and the US Army have more equipment in

common.

[Fred DM 0]

The game's campaign clearly portrays an understrength Stryker Brigade Combat Team that gets assisstance from the Navy.

the Marine Corps   . there may be a mix of Marines and Army in the game, but there sure aren't any Navy units.

Marines are part of the Navy and don't have their own branch.

what?  

the US Military consists of branches: the Army, the Navy, the Air Force, the Coast Guard, and the Marines. i believe the nuclear forces would be a sixth branch.

what makes you say the Marines belong to the Navy? they get their corpsmen from the Navy and they use their boats. but the army also uses Air Force planes.

[baddo 0]

Hi

I really don't care much if the U.S. Army or whatever isn't completely accurately represented in this computer game. Of course it would be nice if everything was just like in real life but I think that is a practical impossibility to achieve. With this I mean that you can get different opinions on what is accurate and what is not even from inside your own Army (How do I know this? It's how human beings work.), so how can a foreign game developer get it right? It's the information they have acquired and have been given by others that makes them do what they do, in the time frame and resources they have available for the work.

Also are you absolutely sure that throughout the whole U.S. Army the used vehicles and other equipment, order of battle etc. are exactly the same everywhere? I doubt it very much, that would be a practical impossibility too.

Don't get me wrong, I prefer realism and accuracy to real life but it's really not a disaster of any kind if your opinion of what is accurate enough and Bohemia Interactive Studio's opinion of what is accurate enough don't match.

I must add, aren't the U.S.M.C. and U.S. Army never co-operating? Maybe you could imagine that in this case there is co-operation and because of that the equipment is mixed. Isn't that a possible scenario in real life too? In the event of war it doesn't matter much for a country whom's motorcycle is being used and by who, all it matters is that it is possible to use it.

Cheers,

Baddo.

[dm 9]

http://community.bistudio.com/wiki/ArmA:_Military_Forces

Quote[/b] ]

blah...

Whomever made that Order of Battle is a goddamned idiot and has absolutely no idea what they're talking about.

Agreed.

The mixture of units in the game would be perfectly acceptable IF a few more units had been thown in - the current soldier models re-skinned to wear MarPat, and some PROPER Army soldiers in ACU for a start.

It just seems so patently and painfully obvious that most unit/equipment choices were made due to the availabilty of content from VBS, when 30 mins of research could have produced a much more believable order of battle, with a bit more variety and interest.

I've already hashed out several "realistic" orders of battle (for all 3 sides) whichcould have been achieved, so I wont do it again here, I just wish it could have been "right" from the start...

[Baff1 0]

Not being American, obviously I couldn't care less about this. Marine, Army.....It's all the same to me. Foreign uniform, foreign gun, foreign tank. No need to go into to detail at all.

I tried to put myself in the OP's position however. I thought of the games I did play with my own nations units and how important the accuracy was.

In Hidden and Dangerous 2, I felt the historical accuracy was spot on. Units on both sides had enough of the right kit, uniforms and nationalities to keep it real, (despite the inclusion of the odd American gun that wasn't historically in Norway in 1940). the more I learnt about actual Commando and S.A.S. raids in WW2, the more I learnt to appreciate the depth of research in that game.

In OFP when I had all my British forces mods going (many thanks to all those genius's who made them and helped me get them going). It wasn't such a priority to me, that the versions need to be exact.

As long as I had enough to play toy soldiers with I was happy as Larry. The most important part for me was to have the depth of palate so to speak.

Enough varied weapons and transport systems to script fun adventures for myself and my mates.

All they really have to do other than that was fit into a loose theme.

If possible I preferred a desert uniform for a desert map etc.

Would it be nice to have the exact unit models for each exact theatre I attempted to portray, sure.

But to be honest I usually added stuff that wasn't anyway. The older guns that are no longer in service. Maybe a sports car just for fun. A cheeky tractor.

At the end of the day, it's all just fantasy. Something made up.

I'm not in the army. It's a video game.

My imagination can compensate for any minor discrepancy, if indeed I even want to over analyse that much.

[Dallas 9]

Seriously it's not that big a deal.

The units of ArmA is a little bit of both. Enough to pretend they are either Marines,Army, any type of SF or zombies for that matter("According to George Romeo zombies don't wear shorts..."). unofficial addons will save those who can't handle the inaccuracies and the rest of us yoyos wont know the difference.

Ooh-rah, Hooah or Kip-kip it's all good.

[Dwarden 1125]

well You can always try push at BIS to fix these "details" before US release

(as US customers will for sure whine about incorrect info and such)

for now take it there was army and marines on Island, some before some came later ...

and about mixed and outdated equipment ...

that's nothing new in any army

- save new ones for real "hot' areas or parade shows

- prolong life of old ones and save $ before getting new ones

- lazyness

etc

plus if i understood it correct some of that "outdated" equip was meant to be sold/left for local army

[NoRailgunner 0]

Nice too see this "USMC vs. US Army" discussion

Mission: Search & Find

1. The Marine Corps is a partner service with the U.S. Navy under the Department of the Navy. (The U.S. Marine Corps relies upon the U.S. Navy for sealift to provide its rapid deployment capabilities.)

2. In larger conflicts, Marines act as a stopgap, to get into and hold an area until larger units can be mobilized.

some more informations:

USMC Organization

On Sahrani are both US Army and USMC - the big question is:

Where is the US Navy (the logistical train) ?

Maybe BIS make some Amphibious transport docks (LPD) like

San Antonio (LPD) or for "Resistance" Galicia Class? Perhaps the Poseidon will see daylight again

[Heatseeker 0]

I have posted about this way before Arma's release. Others showned their concern about it too.

Its unfortunate that such a strange selection of units were chosen for a self proclaimed realistic game/sim... this was never a concern in OPF.

It goes for the 3 sides of the game (the civilians could use a cessna but otherwise their ok).

The RACS dont feel wright, BIS should have made them less "americanised" or used UN troops instead.

The east side is all weird using US body armor and mixing rare high tech with old vehicles, just doesnt make much sense.

A BTR, hind and mig17 would have fitted much better.

The US side... not much left to say about it. It should have been either Army of USMC, not armines. OPF wasnt totaly acurate but it sure felt like more care was used in its design, it felt 80's.

I think for future BIS games better pre planning and concept/design work should be adopted, Arma might be an impressive piece of tech but its design is lacking.

The environment, the plot, the missions and campaign, the units represented ingame are all very important too .

[Clavicula_nox4817 0]

The game's campaign clearly portrays an understrength Stryker Brigade Combat Team that gets assisstance from the Navy.

the Marine Corps   . there may be a mix of Marines and Army in the game, but there sure aren't any Navy units.

Marines are part of the Navy and don't have their own branch.

what?  

the US Military consists of branches: the Army, the Navy, the Air Force, the Coast Guard, and the Marines. i believe the nuclear forces would be a sixth branch.

what makes you say the Marines belong to the Navy? they get their corpsmen from the Navy and they use their boats. but the army also uses Air Force planes.

I'm active duty Army, I know how the military is set-up. The Marines fall under the command of the Department of the Navy. Always have, always will. They are a different Department of the Navy, while the Navy is a Branch/ but they still fall under the Navy. Saying that the Army recieves aid from the Navy is the most correct way of saying it.

Also, I know the Army uses Air Force planes, I jump out of one every week.

one final thing, if the Marines are their own seperate branch, who is the Secretary of the Marine Corps? It's public record and should be googleable.

[MAA3057 0]

http://community.bistudio.com/wiki/ArmA:_Military_Forces

Quote[/b] ][imghttp://img147.imageshack.us/img147/7233/armatemeuoz0.png/img]

(-) National Guard, 28th Infantry Division, 2nd Battalion -

104th Aviation ([[2]])

1 X UH-60 "Blackhawk"

2 X UH-60 "Blackhawk" (FFAR)

besides, a MEU wouldn't be stationed on an island taining allied troops. that's what the Army does, not the Marines.

That's correct and does fit into the story line well. The Army\Air National Guard (or DOD) created the State Partnership program right after the seperation of Soviet states. The National Guard trains with these nations to help them create a more professional army. Small example, Illonois trains with Poland, Texas trains with Czech Republic, Connecticut with Uruguay on both our soil and theirs. On the wiki link I provided, you can find which US state trains which country.

Links:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_Partnership_Program

This kind of makes sense since South Sahrani maybe fell into Soviet rule and is trying to develop a more democratic governed modern military force after their 'probably' recent split from the communist north, thus, sending in National Guardsmen by the SPP.