Infantry, prepare to be amazed

[whisper 0]

M249 recoil should be worked on for having long burst going wild. After the 5th shot or so, you shouldn't be precise, even for short/medium distances.

All I read about M249 is that is excellent for CQB reflex when using bursts.

Also, dexterity parameter should probably be worked on to give it more weight

[gm2kfp 0]

Finally you can fire full/burst while moving. It was stupid when trying to use full auto to clear a room or in CQB and stand still like some idiot with a giant please shoot me sign on his chest. If you can do it in the real world then you need that capability in the game. Thank you BIS.

[RUKH 0]

M249 recoil should be worked on for having long burst going wild. After the 5th shot or so, you shouldn't be precise, even for short/medium distances.

All I read about M249 is that is excellent for CQB reflex when using bursts.

Also, dexterity parameter should probably be worked on to give it more weight

I don't think that after 5 rounds "go wild" fix is any good. It's not very realistic having more recoil just because you have depressed the trigger for more than a second. Maybe barrel heat could be added somehow to stem the 200rnd bursters.

And the recoil is not the issue when itcomes to the SAW, it is very heavy and fires a pretty mild round for it's weight. Instead emphasis should be set on making it more cumbersome to swing around.

Let's not make the MG's into the Red Orchestra way of +5 rnds burst = AA-gun, no nerfing please!

[whisper 0]

M249 recoil should be worked on for having long burst going wild. After the 5th shot or so, you shouldn't be precise, even for short/medium distances.

All I read about M249 is that is excellent for CQB reflex when using bursts.

Also, dexterity parameter should probably be worked on to give it more weight

I don't think that after 5 rounds "go wild" fix is any good. It's not very realistic having more recoil just because you have depressed the trigger for more than a second. Maybe barrel heat could be added somehow to stem the 200rnd bursters.

And the recoil is not the issue when itcomes to the SAW, it is very heavy and fires a pretty mild round for it's weight. Instead emphasis should be set on making it more cumbersome to swing around.

Let's not make the MG's into the Red Orchestra way of +5 rnds burst = AA-gun, no nerfing please!

Well, there must be a reason why it is used in bursts : it's because the soldier can't handle the recoil for long, if firing too long he can't stop the weapon from moving too much. I don't see the realism issue behind that

[lecholas 2]

I don't know if they had this planned for a while (but why release all the other versions with the view locked) or they listened to somebody in the community, but either way thank god they made this fix!

I hope they will listen to that 'somebody' in the community in a few respects more.

I'm really glad that Dslyecxi's hard work on Tactical Gaming Done Right has some influence on my favorite game.

[dslyecxi 23]

Well, there must be a reason why it is used in bursts : it's because the soldier can't handle the recoil for long, if firing too long he can't stop the weapon from moving too much. I don't see the realism issue behind that

It's fired in bursts because firing it sustained wastes ammo at most ranges. The first few shots are the most accurate, after that the sight alignment is being disrupted by the recoil and you're getting some vertical and lateral shifting of the weapon which is a prime factor in why the "beaten zone" exists with machinegun fire at range.

CQB sustained fire is entirely possible. You simply need to have your stance correct (leaning slightly into it, like with any full-auto wepaon) and you'll be golden.

Really, what sense would it make that the weapon would "get away from you" when firing it sustained for more than five rounds? Once the first few rounds have fired, you'll have adjusted to the pattern of the recoil and will be able to hold the sights (roughly) on target.

Again, the reason bursts are preferred is due to ammo expenditure and that the first few rounds are the most accurate.

[max power 21]

.

But SAW seemed to have almost no recoil? That's odd. Or was it just my imagination?

249 recoil vid!

That's not an m249. That's an ultimax 100 mk 3 or 4 SAW. It was especially designed to have a low recoil. It has what they call a constant recoil system where the recoil is turned from individual shocks to a constant push through some kind of shock absorbing system that acts on the bolt. It is the lightest machinegun in the world, but cannot shoot disintegrating belts. It has to be fed from a magazine, drum, or a beta-C mag like you see in the video.

Next time, when you're trying to illustrate your point by finding a video on youtube, please make sure you're actually looking at what you're looking at.

[deanosbeano 0]

whoa , now we are talking ;0

just a few more engine tweaks and i will finally be in a position to click the campaign button.

good job bis . now just give us a work around for setpos and we cookin with gas

[memnoch 0]

all the above is true heatseeker!

just pointing out that some ppl-including me!!! thought that weapon should have a ridiculous recoil on it!

I saw a program not so long ago about the evolution of the assault rifle. They showed how some of the early ones had crazy amounts of recoil, and demonstrated this by shooting at a helmet perched on a stick from a hundred yards or so away on full auto from a standing position. Most of his rounds missed the target. The reason was that the stock was lower than the barrel and as a round is fired it causes the rifle to rotate around that point causing the barrel to lift. The program then went on to explain how the designer of the M16 raised the stock in line with the barrel causing the force of the recoil to travel straight along the length of the rifle straight in to your shoulder causing next to no lift. I'm no expert on this at all but it made perfect sense to me.

[iLL 0]

You hit the nail on the head with this one - well done, some people won't like it (the coop/camping community) but the ctf'ers will love this. Good job.

[max power 21]

@memnoch

I think the programmers may be mushing muzzle rise and recoil into the same compartment. They are related- one causes the other- but they are not necessarily the same thing. Having a stock inline with the recoil is one way to reduce muzzle climb and keep the sights on target. Muzzle breaks are another, and they can actually reduce felt recoil too.

But I forgot to say how excited I am about this turn of events. Kudos to you and BIS, Dslyecxi.

[NeMeSiS 11]

You hit the nail on the head with this one - well done, some people won't like it (the coop community) but the ctf'ers will love this. Good job.

I expect that most of the coop community will like this, after all, they are the ones who use the iron sights the most (often no crosshair)

[BroK3n 0]

ah yes the SAW machinegun..... no other gun beats this baby's curtain of lead... and it's superb accuracy and stability!

... which of course many people (including me) have exploited and ruined the game for everyone.

I once had a round during the CTF demo and was getting petty-shot by an ak74. I got shot in the leg, dropped down, turned around to where the tracers were coming from and sprayed in that general direction. Needless to say that fella went down despite being all the way at the other end of the desert (about 200 - 300 metres) and he texted, "Nice one."

I felt almost guilty because the gun itself has a very tight grouping even at that range. Add that to 200 rounds, in prone position, and you have a mini vulcan.

I hope someone would tweak the SAW to even out the gameplay a little (the M240 feels more right, btw).

As of now i avoid picking up an AK74 because the recoil on that thing is tremendous.

[dslyecxi 23]

Quote[/b] ]some people won't like it (the coop community)

Err, what? I think you're a bit confused. This change is excellent for the game in general, and most definitely coop. It certainly was not suggested with CTF or DM in mind - I personally don't even play those, so... it would be a bit illogical (to say the least) for that to be the inspiration for such a change.

Also, you gain nothing by trying to further the idea of a "rift" in the community, drawing a line in the sand or whatever. Might as well just leave that out of this.

[Killerwatt 0]

This is going to make urban warfare so much more immersive

Cheers,

Stewart.

[whisper 0]

Well, there must be a reason why it is used in bursts : it's because the soldier can't handle the recoil for long, if firing too long he can't stop the weapon from moving too much. I don't see the realism issue behind that

It's fired in bursts because firing it sustained wastes ammo at most ranges. The first few shots are the most accurate, after that the sight alignment is being disrupted by the recoil and you're getting some vertical and lateral shifting of the weapon which is a prime factor in why the "beaten zone" exists with machinegun fire at range.

CQB sustained fire is entirely possible. You simply need to have your stance correct (leaning slightly into it, like with any full-auto wepaon) and you'll be golden.

Really, what sense would it make that the weapon would "get away from you" when firing it sustained for more than five rounds? Once the first few rounds have fired, you'll have adjusted to the pattern of the recoil and will be able to hold the sights (roughly) on target.

Again, the reason bursts are preferred is due to ammo expenditure and that the first few rounds are the most accurate.

Mmmh, I never said otherwise

Note I'm talking about firing on the move, mainly.

And yup, my suggestion is just having what you said simulated : "the reason bursts are preferred is due to ammo expenditure and that the first few rounds are the most accurate."

[Commando84 0]

sweeet BIS! totally dig that stuff. Will make CQB much better.

[frederf 0]

It's cool to see the player's eyeball unbolted from his buttstock, quite well done.

It does mean that a "camshake" sometime in one of the future patches would be welcome. Because although your eyeball isn't bolted to your buttstock in real life, the shaking of the gun against your shoulder is still going to affect your vision, right? Maybe I'm wrong.

[CameronMcDonald 146]

Talk about kickass. Well spotted, Lex.

[Scrub 0]

Fantastic! Beautiful implementation. AND check out how many pages we have without anybody complaining! Mark the date on yer calendars, mates!

Thanks again, BIS and Dys.

[Mabes 0]

OMG! CQB is actually going to be possible, and FUN. Can't wait for that patch to come out.

[Opticalsnare 12]

Thats pretty sweet

[ade_mcc 0]

This is ace - nice video.

[Hostilian 11]

Looks a lot better.. Nice find!

#C

[smellyjelly 0]

It's cool to see the player's eyeball unbolted from his buttstock, quite well done.

It does mean that a "camshake" sometime in one of the future patches would be welcome. Because although your eyeball isn't bolted to your buttstock in real life, the shaking of the gun against your shoulder is still going to affect your vision, right? Maybe I'm wrong.

That could be used to balance the machine guns. You can't shoot anything if your blind.    Of course, I assume that might not work if proned since the ground might absorb most of the vibrations.

Another change that may need to be made to the machine guns is that the stand shouldn't go through the ground.