Upcoming tactical shooter from Blackfoot Studios: Ground Branch

[KrisRedbeard 10]

True, though we are so few in number that time spent on PR work is time not spent working on it.

The whole damned if we do, damned if we don't :(

[down8 30]

True, though we are so few in number that time spent on PR work is time not spent working on it.

The whole damned if we do, damned if we don't :(

Keep up the great job and PR close to release. I hope you have the success you all deserve.

In my case: day fuckin one.

[trent 14]

One of Ground Branch's devs just posted this regarding Takedown's shoddy launch:

http://www.serellan.com/forums/index.php?/topic/2988-kris-on-kickstarter-and-the-release/?p=56417

Kickstarter is NOT a store.

When you supported the Takedown Kickstarter, you were supporting Serellan LLC.

Receiving a copy of the game or other rewards was a bonus.

"The release didn't go smoothly."

And?

Many large, well funded teams with years to create a title in have had worse launches then this.

Accept it and move on.

"But <insert rant/argument here>..."

Stop.

Christian, the team at Serellan and the pulishers at 505 Games are not sitting around, patting each other on the back while sipping champagne on a beach somewhere. They are fretting, sweating, swearing and, more importantly, working.

"Shutup, you're just a Takedown fanboi who <insert rant/argument here>..."

I am a supporter of Chrstian and his team. To me, that they could go from an idea to a released game in a year is something to be proud of. The fact that I was involved as Kickstarer supporter makes me kinda warm and fuzzy inside.

The game, not so much.

I uninstalled the current version after 30 minutes (or thereabouts) as I found it unplayable in its current form.

"Shutup, what do you know, I <insert profanity here> your mum!"

That's nice, could you ask her if its ok to visit later?

Thanks.

As for me, I am the coder on another tactical FPS title that is disheartened by the lack of support and general reactions he is seeing from people in regards to game developers, big and small.

Keep this ###### up and people like Christian, and dare I say it, me, will tell you all to go ###### yourself next time you whinge about there being no tactical FPS games or innovation left in gaming.

-Kris

Release broken game at launch -> tell consumers to "go #### yourself, you whingers, or I'll take my ball and go home!"

[metalcraze 290]

They seem to always use the same arguments, no matter the forum.

And I've seen better mods for Unreal games than this standalone UE3 game.

That it comes from GB dev (are you sure though?) is not exactly reassuring

Edited September 21, 2013 by metalcraze

[Sniperwolf572 758]

I suppose we might find out if that's really him as he posts here as well.

I get what he's saying, but this line is so "high and mighty" thing.

Keep this ###### up and people like Christian, and dare I say it, me, will tell you all to go ###### yourself next time you whinge about there being no tactical FPS games or innovation left in gaming.

I have no problems with supporting the developers, hell, I gave Phil Fish money for Fez and would for Fez 2 if wasn't cancelled because due to tantrums like this.

But with posts like this, the self proclaimed and implied title of "saviors of the tactical FPS for the whining masses" I hope the next time they ask for public backing like Kickstarter I hope people will tell them to hashtag themselves. I don't get it really, GB started off as a "heart-and-soul" thing as the devs seemed to want to make it because they found that there is a lack of such titles, and now they're acting like it was demanded of them and they're doing everyone a favor.

I'll still buy GB if it ends up being a good product, I don't have to like the people or their opinions, but it's kinda funny when you get a glimpse of the way they think of themselves.

[bangtail 0]

They seem to always use the same arguments, no matter the forum.

And I've seen better mods for Unreal games than this standalone UE3 game.

That it comes from GB dev (are you sure though?) is not exactly reassuring

The gaming industry needs an enema.

I'm sick to death of some of these people acting as if they are doing us some whopping great favor.

Let's say I order $40.00 worth of fresh fruit for my dinner party, it arrives in a sealed container and I put it in the fridge. Later that evening, I open the container to serve the fruit and it is all rotten!

Did the greengrocer do me a fucking favor? I don't think so!

When people pay for something (in advance I might add) and site unseen (the definition of support afaiac - and this guy is moaning about 'lack of support'), they have every right to expect a fully functional product.

There is no way that the people testing this thought 'hey, this is awesome, people will love this, lets release it' NO WAY!.

I won't even go into the constant name dropping that went on vis a vis R6/GR.

The smartest thing for Serellan to do would have been to offer this as early access. I don't really agree with early access as I think it is another mechanism to part people from their money (in some cases, not all), but the one thing it does do in the 'pros' column, is it clearly differentiates between a retail game and a 'work in progress'.

At least in that respect, potential customers know what they are getting into.

If this guy really is a GB dev, he should be showing some solidarity with gamers as Serellan is the one that is essentially 'killing his golden goose', not the people who fund/preorder these projects.

When it's a free mod, take all the time you like and release whatever you want, you may take criticism but you are beholden to nobody.

When you charge/accept money (and I don't care whether it is Kickstarter, preorder or whatever else), it's a completely different story.

Like Sniperwolf, I too will buy GB if it is good, we desperately need some decent tactical shooters :D

Edited September 21, 2013 by BangTail

[dmarkwick 261]

I suppose we might find out if that's really him as he posts here as well.

I get what he's saying, but this line is so "high and mighty" thing.

I have no problems with supporting the developers, hell, I gave Phil Fish money for Fez and would for Fez 2 if wasn't cancelled because due to tantrums like this.

But with posts like this, the self proclaimed and implied title of "saviors of the tactical FPS for the whining masses" I hope the next time they ask for public backing like Kickstarter I hope people will tell them to hashtag themselves. I don't get it really, GB started off as a "heart-and-soul" thing as the devs seemed to want to make it because they found that there is a lack of such titles, and now they're acting like it was demanded of them and they're doing everyone a favor.

I'll still buy GB if it ends up being a good product, I don't have to like the people or their opinions, but it's kinda funny when you get a glimpse of the way they think of themselves.

Well the guy's just a human being, you can't expect every developer to conform to the same cookie-cut personality cutout :)

[Sniperwolf572 758]

Well the guy's just a human being, you can't expect every developer to conform to the same cookie-cut personality cutout :)

Oh, you missed my point, I'm not expecting anything from them. I'm just noting that it's interesting to get a glimpse into that individuals reasoning on why they do what they do and what they think of the people who they believe are doing a favor to.

I think "If you come, we will build what you expect" is a backwards way of thinking (which has been the motto of one certain developer) especially if you have even slightest doubts that you can't actually understand and deliver what those that came to you want.

For example, it makes me believe that failure of GB kickstarter was actually a good thing. They no longer have to answer to the expectations of the people who would have given them the money, and those who would have given them the money have no reason to expect anything Blackfoot doesn't promise. Win for Blackfoot except for the money bit. Which they will be rolling in if they manage to make a modern R6 equivalent.

[Alpha Whiskey Romeo 17]

The very trouble Takedown is having is the main reason why I very purposefully have not done any public releases for it. We will do it right. We will do something innovative. We will do something at a quality level that we ourselves would expect as a consumer. Or we won't do it at all.

That right there told me all I need to know about GB and it's direction, so I'll continue to hold out hope for it.

As for Takedown, well, it's just awful. It's wac-a-mole with lean. It's not only broken with debilitating game-breaking bugs, but it's conceptually broken and shallow to boot. At least I got it for free (thanks Jeza!), so my qualms are moot in comparison to the KS backers and retail buyers.

[sic-disaster 311]

I don't think they think of themselves as the saviours of the genre that we all owe allegiance to, not at all. His post over there might be a tad agressive at the end, but in that same post he also notes that he uninstalled the game after 30 minutes because it was unplayable to him. So he is very honest about his opinion of the game, which is the same as everyone elses and that is something he sympathises with. What he does not sympathise with is the way in which people express their frustration, which I find perfectly understandable. This is an age where people get threatened with death because a game gun got nerfed in a way a particular fan didn't like, and on the Takedown forums I saw someone threatening to sue Serellan and Steam over a 15 dollar game. All of it is so completely over the top that many developers get this feeling of 'why bother anymore, everybody will hate us no matter what we do', and I think that was the point of his last sentence. It is all that hate that made Phil Fish cancel Fez 2, which is a shame (even though I didn't particularly like Fez and certainly don't like Phil Fish).

That last comment wasn't at all meant to sound like people think it sounds I think. They aren't making GB as a favour to us, it is still a project of their own passion. But if you get constant hate for everything you do or don't do, eventually you might give up on it.

[bangtail 0]

I don't think they think of themselves as the saviours of the genre that we all owe allegiance to, not at all. His post over there might be a tad agressive at the end, but in that same post he also notes that he uninstalled the game after 30 minutes because it was unplayable to him. So he is very honest about his opinion of the game, which is the same as everyone elses and that is something he sympathises with. What he does not sympathise with is the way in which people express their frustration, which I find perfectly understandable. This is an age where people get threatened with death because a game gun got nerfed in a way a particular fan didn't like, and on the Takedown forums I saw someone threatening to sue Serellan and Steam over a 15 dollar game. All of it is so completely over the top that many developers get this feeling of 'why bother anymore, everybody will hate us no matter what we do', and I think that was the point of his last sentence. It is all that hate that made Phil Fish cancel Fez 2, which is a shame (even though I didn't particularly like Fez and certainly don't like Phil Fish).

That last comment wasn't at all meant to sound like people think it sounds I think. They aren't making GB as a favour to us, it is still a project of their own passion. But if you get constant hate for everything you do or don't do, eventually you might give up on it.

Is GB getting hate?

Takedown is getting criticized because it was not fit for release.

That criticism is fair and deserved imho, as is a polite request for a refund (despite the fact that Steam doesn't usually, I suspect there will be an exception 'a la WarZ' in this case as the game is clearly not ready).

Death threats (apart from the fact that you can be prosecuted for making them) and talk of litigation have no place in the debate over a $15.00 game.

And yah, it's not about the money, but when you spend well over $15.00 in the process of litigating, it's simply a waste of time.

Chalk that one up to 'caveat emptor' and move on ;)

[sic-disaster 311]

Not GB specifically no, just Kris in that topic on the Takedown forums. And some of the people over there insult GB to get to Kris, but that is so obviously the case it is laughable. I don't think the hateful comments on Kris are warranted, because I think he is being misinterpreted.

The criticism on Takedown is very fair indeed, I bought it myself though I didn't support their kickstarter. I didn't because I didn't trust Serellan to make a proper tactical shooter with their background (Christian Allen only worked on the expansion for GR, and after that directed the horribly shitty sequels which I hate). Back then they had not even decided on their engine yet, so many things were still unsure. Over time I saw the direction they were going with, and I got slightly interested. After seeing gameplay footage though I knew exactly what I was getting into: not the best tactical shooter ever, but certainly something that could be enjoyed in co-op with a few friends, and if I didn't buy it then publishers everywhere could say "See? There is no interest in a game like this". That said, I haven't had much trouble with the release myself, but certain choices are very poor. Not being able to walk and lean at the same time, and all doors being open by default are the worst offenders.

I have had one disconnect from a single player match, and I think it is because I tried to join an MP match earlier and failed. I believe the game kept trying on the background while I was playing single player, then when it failed to connect I got the message which caused me to be dropped from the SP game. When I simply play SP without trying to join an MP match it doesn't happen.

[KrisRedbeard 10]

Yeah, that's me.

As many people have noted, I wasn't talking about the game, but the reaction many people having towards towards Christian/Serellan LLC.

Being a dev on another tactical FPS and then seeing all the hate and abuse thrown at them isn't exactly encouraging...

[Sniperwolf572 758]

I didn't because I didn't trust Serellan to make a proper tactical shooter with their background (Christian Allen only worked on the expansion for GR, and after that directed the horribly shitty sequels which I hate).

I'm not sure "background" even matters anymore today or the fact someone directed a successful game "back in" 2005. They had a fair shot at making a decent game. Things are changing at such a speed today, even 5 years ago is a long time in regards to the quality expected from today's titles and the competition they're against, especially now that the consumer base won't eat up anything. The best bet is really to make a good product according to todays standards and let your work speak for itself.

...and if I didn't buy it then publishers everywhere could say "See? There is no interest in a game like this"..

I seriously don't think it matters at all, a giant IP in the genre has to make an incredible profit for the "safe play" investors to invest into a title or an investor has to take a risk which ends up being that giant IP in the genre to change their minds.

Everyone seems to think the investor in the second case seems to be Kickstarter, but I don't think Kickstarter has that deep pockets. But what happens is they ask for too little so they can get ANY funding and then get nowhere near to that "giant title" (Takedown) or if they ask for too much and don't reach the goal needed to get any money (I'd say Ground Branch but I'd be only going the fact that they failed to get funded, 400k doesn't seem like a lot of money anyway to make an incredible breaktrough, but I might be wrong)

[JdB 151]

Found this on the page the admin linked to in the closing post of that thread. Found it funny:

All you are are doing here is giving Serellan LLC a bad name and tarnishing the whole TakeDown franchise before the game is even made.

Surely the people that put in the money are to blame for the game (oops sorry meant to use the industry standard "franchise" ... ) getting a bad name rather than releasing a game as "Retail" rather than in alpha or beta as early access/paid testing when it clearly isn't anywhere near completion :rolleyes:

I wouldn't mind getting this kind of game early and helping with the testing phase, but at least be sensible enough to call it for what it is. Saves you loads of trouble.

Edited September 21, 2013 by JdB

[dmarkwick 261]

Yeah, that's me.

As many people have noted, I wasn't talking about the game, but the reaction many people having towards towards Christian/Serellan LLC.

Being a dev on another tactical FPS and then seeing all the hate and abuse thrown at them isn't exactly encouraging...

I sometimes wonder why any dev would ever develop their game with the constant input of "the community" :) I remember the terrible debacle that was B-17 The Mighty Eight after some features were publicly announced as dropped for the (then) upcoming release. Those poor guys felt (and this is an actual paraphrase from what one of them wrote) that they were treated as though they were child molesters or something. They recieved the most attrocious verbal treatment from "fans".

Since that time, I never begrudged a dev studio developing in isolation again.

[bangtail 0]

I sometimes wonder why any dev would ever develop their game with the constant input of "the community" :) I remember the terrible debacle that was B-17 The Mighty Eight after some features were publicly announced as dropped for the (then) upcoming release. Those poor guys felt (and this is an actual paraphrase from what one of them wrote) that they were treated as though they were child molesters or something. They recieved the most attrocious verbal treatment from "fans".

Since that time, I never begrudged a dev studio developing in isolation again.

Have to agree with you - best for devs to follow their own path and ignore the 'peanut gallery'.

You can't please all of the people all of the time.

[froggyluv 2136]

Death threats (apart from the fact that you can be prosecuted for making them) and talk of litigation have no place in the debate over a $15.00 game.

And yah, it's not about the money, but when you spend well over $15.00 in the process of litigating, it's simply a waste of time.

Those poor guys felt (and this is an actual paraphrase from what one of them wrote) that they were treated as though they were child molesters or something. They recieved the most attrocious verbal treatment from "fans".

Shit. Is. Out. Of. Control.

Seriously, people acting like they are in some sort of multi-million dollar contract which is being defrauded by the Ponzi scheme masters -game developers.... Threats, litigations, rampant dev trashing and just generally nasty attitude.

Congratulations video game fan base -your gonna piss yourselves into a world full of 3 games GTA/COD/BF. Can't wait to see the complaints when other ambitious indie games aka Star Citizen launch - "Yo, I found a fuckin rock in the Pegasus star system that you get stuck on -WTF!!?! Calling my lawyer(s) and gonna sue your asses you f8ck8$n A$$h*le B*tch*s Moth#r C*ckS*ck*n **$#*$$$$*#!!!!!!!!111!"

[Dwarden 1125]

i have rule i use for ages (maybe close to 10y now) for all games , after 3 major patches i take look on the game again and decide ...

[PuFu 4600]

i have rule i use for ages (maybe close to 10y now) for all games , after 3 major patches i take look on the game again and decide ...

So you still don't play A3 then i assume ... (sorry david, couldn't help it :D)

[zatoichi 10]

i have rule i use for ages (maybe close to 10y now) for all games , after 3 major patches i take look on the game again and decide ...

If Groundbranch can take anything from the Takedown debacle, it's don't take the bun out of the oven until it's ready. And definitely don't pretend the cold mush is finished as intended if you do.

[Flogger23m 2]

Not sure if this was posted on the previous pages, but Ground Branch is going to start a smaller Kickstarter campaign to get the game built up enough to put on Steam (and non-Steam) Early Access. They are looking for $25,000 only and are mainly targetting previous Kickstarters and followers.

Politely spread the word as much as possible. If they can make $100,000 like they did last time, perhaps it can speed up the process.

[CalamityUSSOCOM 11]

Wow just watched a couple of there DEV Vids and I gotta say their customization is just awesome and so far the game is looking great! Can't wait to see where this will go.

[Flogger23m 2]

Wow just watched a couple of there DEV Vids and I gotta say their customization is just awesome and so far the game is looking great! Can't wait to see where this will go.

Well, with luck, they get $25,000 on the Kickstarter they will launch in the next few weeks. Then we will have to wait a few months for it to go up on Early Access. Then we will be able to see basic builds of the game for ourselves. Personally I am kicking in $15, maybe more if I can afford it. The loadout has a great interface much like many flight sims. While the 3D aspect is not needed, this type of loadout editor should have been included in ArmA 3's editor IMO. This is just one feature that Ground Branch is developing that truly pushes the genre forward.

[CalamityUSSOCOM 11]

@Flogger Well said.