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Steel Beasts Pro PE

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OMG, they want 25$ for an upgrade? The game itself costs already 100$
That's the ED way of life. One company has learned from the other.

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I'm not really sure why people keep quibbling about having to pay small sums of money for updates and bug fixes. These things take time and in a lot of cases considerable amounts of time - surely that's worth something, don't forget that these guys have got to eat too.

If you don't want it or you feel its not worth it why bother complaining. There are heaps of user made free skins etc available that improve the look and feel of the game so why shouldn't core upgrades that improve in-game features and functionality cost something and before you start spouting that BIS provides the same service for free - think about how many times you've paid for upgrades to the Real Virtuality Engine over the last 10 or so years.

I for one am enjoying the crewable T72 and the game works beautifully with Nvida 3D Vision.

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- think about how many times you've paid for upgrades to the Real Virtuality Engine over the last 10 or so years.
3 times: OPF GotY Edition , Armed Assault Gold, ArmA X. I can't remeber having having payed for patches and additional models in patches for any BIS game.

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Good on you Beagle you're totally missing the point. I could say I've only just bought Steel Beasts so I've only payed for it once with that kind of logic.

Here we go:

OFP, Red Hammer, Resistance, ArmA, Queen's Gambit, ArmA2, OA, BAF and PMC.

In some cases I've bought several copies of each for developmental purposes.

I haven't even mentioned my VBS1 and VBS2 licenses.

I shouldn't have bothered opening my mouth in the first place :icon_sad:

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So you are looking at the new content as an expansion?..depending on what it adds, that would be a possibility.

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To fix bugs in a game is one thing.

To fix them in a simulator where the behaviour has to match real world data is another. I'd imagine working with something as complex as a computer game with the constraints of millimetric precision is like trying to embark on a climbing wall with your hands and legs bound together. All of these vast possibilities for lateral thinking and problem solving are now narrowed down to what is within your considerably restricted project constraints... Not to mention that everything that changes must be play tested and compared to occult performance data. AND they can't release anything half working because of the demands of the sim community. Now we've gone from changing some values and seeing what it's like to passing it down through several testers and experts with an encyclopedia open. I think the cost of making such advanced simulations must be ridiculous.

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This update goes well beyond simple bug fixes, if you're interested check this out: http://www.steelbeasts.com/updates/SBProPE_2-640_Release_Notes.pdf

As you can see there's quite a lot that's been added.

Don't get me wrong if BIS included highly detailed vehicle interiors and accurate/functional weapons systems I'd have no reason to fire up SB's again. At the moment, unfortunately, I'm stuck with SB's for my modern day tank fix.

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I enjoyed the original SB a lot. My feeling is however that regardless of the technical achievements of SBPro, it needs to look better IMO. A realistic look is more than eye-candy in a sim of this nature, plus it's a big investment. It needs to really look good for me to shell out that much for it, that makes me sound a little shallow but better graphics would be the tipping point for me for sure.

A bit like OFP, would I have bought ArmA2 if it was still stuck with OFP graphics, at a few hundred pounds? Well, OK maybe I would :D but that's because it would have the fidelity that SBPro has, but for OFP which has more aspects to it.

I mean, maybe one day I will shell out for SBPro, the odds are good that I would.

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I'm not really sure why people keep quibbling about having to pay small sums of money for updates and bug fixes. These things take time and in a lot of cases considerable amounts of time - surely that's worth something, don't forget that these guys have got to eat too.

So they ask first $125 for free? Why won't they make a paid monthly subscription for patches to the bugs their product comes with and be done with it?

I mean fixing bugs they are at fault for takes time lol you gotta pay them for fixing something they broke

A plumber breaks you a pipe and hot water starts flooding your kitchen you gotta pay him to fix it bro

And no "2 vehicle interior DLC for just $24.99" doesn't cut it.

A bunch of modders add and fix more in Falcon 4 for free in a year than eSim in 2 while asking money close to a full expansion price for it.

Keep defending man, just don't wonder why even game studios like Paradox charge you $20 for patches (which they call expansions for some reason even though they only tweak balance apart from some bugfixes and a different menu wallpaper)

Edited by metalcraze

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And no "2 vehicle interior DLC for just $24.99" doesn't cut it.

That's just your opinion. For people who rather obviously have a more-than-average deep interest in such things, it is. You or I might not, but then SBPro quite clearly is not aimed at us.

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Given the interaction and what you can do with it I'd buy it, it would pretty much be like buying an expansion that gives you two new tanks, not sure what problem.

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So they ask first $125 for free? Why won't they make a paid monthly subscription for patches to the bugs their product comes with and be done with it?

I mean fixing bugs they are at fault for takes time lol you gotta pay them for fixing something they broke

A plumber breaks you a pipe and hot water starts flooding your kitchen you gotta pay him to fix it bro

And no "2 vehicle interior DLC for just $24.99" doesn't cut it.

A bunch of modders add and fix more in Falcon 4 for free in a year than eSim in 2 while asking money close to a full expansion price for it.

Keep defending man, just don't wonder why even game studios like Paradox charge you $20 for patches (which they call expansions for some reason even though they only tweak balance apart from some bugfixes and a different menu wallpaper)

I guess the alternative is that this development doesn't exist, at least not for the pc consumer.

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@DMarwick – They’re slowly dragging the graphics into the 21st Century mate but still much of it is “like so last millenniumâ€.

Leo2a4.JPG

Leo2a5.JPG

But this is the reason why we play.

LeoInt.jpg

centauroInt.jpg

@Metalcraze – If you feel that a small group of people with an extremely limited market, doing highly specialised work for 15 or 16 months as their sole source of income deserve absolutely no remuneration then we’re going to have to agree to disagree I’m afraid.

Oh and this has been e-Sims financial model for some time now - in between version patches - free, what they consider major updates - paid.

Hopefully one day, people will come to realise that not everyone else on the planet was put there for their own satisfaction.

Edited by norrin

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@Metalcraze – If you feel that a small group of people with an extremely limited market, doing highly specialised work for 15 or 16 months as their sole source of income deserve absolutely no remuneration then we’re going to have to agree to disagree I’m afraid.

Oh and this has been e-Sims financial model for some time now - in between version patches - free, what they consider major updates - paid.

Hopefully one day, people will come to realise that not everyone else on the planet was put there for their own satisfaction.

Most of Steel Beasts Pro PE development income comes from military contracts, the upgrade charges are for tanks that those military clients won't pay for but add depth to the sim, like the T-55, Challanger etc. One day the tanks might even have shadows and moving road wheels, here's to that day.

The thing I never liked about esim is their adversion to allowing modding, I remember reading a comment from Ssnake few years ago (before Arma was released) saying that he thought BIS would have regretted adding mod support to Operation Flashpoint as it drove military business from them...

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@Metalcraze – If you feel that a small group of people with an extremely limited market, doing highly specialised work for 15 or 16 months as their sole source of income deserve absolutely no remuneration then we’re going to have to agree to disagree I’m afraid.

If by an extremely limited market you mean real world armies that pour millions into training tools, which SB Pro is, then sure.

I gave an example of what community does for another hardcore sim for free (that includes adding new airplanes with fully modeled and clickable 3D cockpits) and here we have a light version of a military budget-backed sim.

They already ask a hundred bucks for this (excluding what military already paid them to do these vehicles). And it keeps selling. And then they ask $25 for two cockpits and bugfixes. It's as if BIS was to cut out half of the content from BAF apart from cutting out a campaign and missions, slapped it into 1.60 and then asked $25 for the package including the patch.

See now? The cockpits themselves are not the problem, to get further free patches (did I just write free patch?) you need to pay $25 first.

Hopefully one day, people will come to realise that not everyone else on the planet was put there for their own satisfaction.

Of course. Games are made only for developers themselves, which are to receive satisfaction from getting moneys.

For the past few years I've noticed that hardcore sim and wargame communities really like to be ripped off - and people complain that Epic Games asks them $5 for a bunch of recoloured skins for weapons in Gears of War 3.

Edited by metalcraze

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For the past few years I've noticed that hardcore sim and wargame communities really like to be ripped off

Much as I hate to buy into the hyperbole, I really have to agree. If you want the complete set of RailWorks (or whatever the hell its latest incarnation is called, the one with shadows on the trains - ooooh) you'll have to shell out at least 1300 euros (rough calc)

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If by an extremely limited market you mean real world armies that pour millions into training tools, which SB Pro is, then sure.

They are under no obligation to provide it to the general public and that in itself generates a cost for them. At the very least they have to create a public build of the latest Mil Sim version, update licensing keys, provide documentation and host the files. For the public version the market is relatively tiny compared to other games that already have a narrow market base such as ArmA.

I gave an example of what community does for another hardcore sim for free (that includes adding new airplanes with fully modeled and clickable 3D cockpits) and here we have a light version of a military budget-backed sim.

If I remember rightly its not that long ago that a group of modders from that community created a company called Lead Pursuit, put together a freely available number of mods and sold an updated version as F4 Allied Force. They had licensing costs as they had to pay Atari for the honour so in my mind that was justifiable. As for Free Falcon, its like ArmA, as long as people don't charge for content no one can be accused of infringing upon copyright or making money from someone elses IP. It's in the communities best interests to keep it that way. Imagine what would happen if I started charging people for scripts or addons, not only would there be an enormous community backlash but no doubt BIS would be on the blower demanding their cut.

For the past few years I've noticed that hardcore sim and wargame communities really like to be ripped off - and people complain that Epic Games asks them $5 for a bunch of recoloured skins for weapons in Gears of War 3.

I guess many "hardcore" simmers are like me, they are at a stage of life where $25 doesn't seem like a great deal to them. That's less than a round of drinks at the pub, which are gone within 5 or 10 minutes, what's the better value I ask (though I do like a drink :)).

Another issue is that there are so few companies today that are willing to pander to this select group of nutters and provide intelligent non-mainstream games or sims or whatever you want to call them.

If we weren't so starved for choice then maybe I'd feel differently but I'm happy to pay, if it means these guys can stay in business and continue providing their wares to the not so general public.

But each to his own.

Edited by norrin

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