Body Armor

[EiZei 0]

But I agree for ArmA there needs to be a feature that knocks you down when you get hit, but depending on where you got hit will depend on how effective you are afterwards (ie: hit in the arm = LARGE drop in rifle steadiness)

Yeah, anyways, you are pretty much dead if you are less than 200m away.. especially with BIS bb gun recoils.

[Balschoiw 0]

Quote[/b] ] What do you think about this article with included video, Bals? Maybe it was just a really long adrenaline rush and he collapsed, "useless", afterwards?

If you had read the previous pages, you would have known that we were already debating the video. I still stand strong by my point that soldiers with body armor who got hit hit by rifle ammunition or even small arms fire will suffer injuries that are most likely to take them out of action sooner or later after the incident. I´m not saying that there are SOME that will be able to keep themselves on their feet afterwards, but that´s not representative for all of them.

Body armor does not make you a superman.

Quote[/b] ]The article said 75 yards away. LMAO. Hate to say it, but dam if feels good to be so right.

Still you got busted... or have extremely little knowledge on the things you claim to teach at Fort Bragg....

[BlackScorpion 0]

Quote[/b] ]especially with BIS bb gun recoils.

Why won't BIS then just integrate FDF straight into AA...

*EDIT* removed this part because I realized that he complained that M1 has less recoil than G3... But I still don't believe the "gases amplifying energy" -thing. Just like Metal Heart said.

BTW I really doubt that M24 is based on M1 Garand...

[max power 21]

I think the m24 is based on some remington varmint gun.

There's no mechanism for gasses amplifying impulse from other gasses. Gasses induce drag. If there was a way to amplify thrust with gasses on an inert object, trust me, the aerospace industry would be all over it, and we would all be flying to tokyo with no fuel required.

One thing I don't know is how injured this guy would be after a hit to the vest. The impulse of that heavy round wouldn't be super extreme, but it would be sharp. I don't agree that he would be unable to fight afterwards (unless he fractured a rib).. people can take some terrible beatings and keep on going... but he would probably be injured.

I find that most things in life like this are quite unlike videogames... if a round is going to penetrate a tank, it's going to penetrate and bad things are going to happen... and these bad things happen depending on where the tank is hit. Same with people. It's almost all or nothing... not a hitpoint scale. Gameplay in this regard would be interesting- having to close to a certain distance to get lethal shots on your target. It would be surreal.

[Cam51 0]

Quote[/b] ]The article said 75 yards away.  LMAO.  Hate to say it, but dam if feels good to be so right.

Still you got busted... or have extremely little knowledge on the things you claim to teach at Fort Bragg....

Fort Bragg? Try Fort Bliss.

Busted on what? All the information I told you guys eairlier was what this article hit on again, and I've never seen/read this article till now.

Come down to our IED/Insurgent training facility and I'll show you how much knowledge we have on the things I CLAIM to teach.

[Balschoiw 0]

Quote[/b] ]I think the 6000 or so flawed Interceptors that the USMC recalled make up about 3% of the fielded Interceptors in Iraq.

It have been more than 18000 flawed ones.

[SOMaster 0]

I think we should realize, that a excessive body armour simulation was not planned for AA and that it would have been too complicated to include.

While you are argueing about the "stopping" capabilities of different armour types and weapons it seems as if you forget that the initial question has already been answered and your little chat ( 5 guys having their little chat) is already off topic.....

[Llauma 0]

The energy of a 7 gram bullet traveling at 750 m/s is equal to  a hockey puck traveling at 160 m/s. That's 3-4 times as fast as the hardest slapshot. Even if the speed of the bullet is dropped to the half (375 m/s) it still has the energy of the hardest slapshot.

[7-62 0]

According to a summary of the study obtained by The Associated Press, the 93 Marines who died from a primary lethal injury of the torso were among 401 Marines who died from combat injuries in Iraq between the start of the war and last June.

Autopsy reports and photographic records were analyzed to help the military determine possible body armor redesign. A military advocacy group, Soldiers for Truth, posted an article about the study on its Web site this week. On Friday evening, The New York Times reported in its online edition that the study for the first time shows the cost in lives lost from inadequate armor.

The study found that of 39 fatal torso wounds in which the bullet or shrapnel entered the Marine's body outside of the ceramic armor plate that protects the chest and back, 31 were close to the plate's edge.

"Either a larger plate or superior protection around the plate would have had the potential to alter the final outcome," the report concluded. And like Balschoiw already know body armour make you not an superman! armed assault need no body armour! (imho!

[dmakatra 1]

Could someone get like a mod or something to move the thread to off-topic already?

[ebns72 0]

I remember watching a video where body armor saved a soldier's life from a 7.62 sniper bullet. The guy had serious bruising and swelling all over his chest afterwards, but it saved his life. He got knocked down and was in a lot of pain, yet managed to get up and take cover...however based on the pictures of his injuries afterward I'd say he was probably out of the fight and got taken out of the combat area soon afterwards. The bottom line is body armor won't really deflect rounds, it mainly just saves your life but still puts you out of combat. Unless we have a realistic "wound" system in arma it will be difficult to implement body armor.

It could still maybe lessen the damage of small pistol rounds and ricochets I suppose, but not form larger calibur rounds.

[Blake 0]

Based on what I heard long time ago...The normal soft body armor (9mm proof) withour armor plates installed can also be problematic if shot with rifle round. The round would penetrate, i guess also deform a bit on the way in and rip fabrics from the vest into body interior which could cause serious infections. Since it's bullet proof material (kevlar etc.) it's not same as if normal cloth would get dragged into the body with a bullet. Therefore normal 9mm-proof vest without plates could in fact add to lethality if shot with high-powered rifle round. Now I don't want anybody taking off their vests because of this, but I'm just curious are there any studies on this issue?

[snoops_213 75]

Yes there are. And you are right. The bullet will stop spinning after it hits the vest, and will actually "tumble" though the vest and body. This is where all the damage is done. Instead of a nice clean though and though, it will do all sorts of shit, bouncing here and there inside you

Body armour has its advantages and disadvantages. I dont see it being implemented in ArmA. And irl just because bad shit is happening I wouldn't be telling the boys to be scrapping it. You have to remember people that all you equipment was sold by the LOWEST bidder.

[Balschoiw 0]

Quote[/b] ] You have to remember people that all you equipment was sold by the LOWEST bidder.

That doesn´t mean it´s overall bad quality. The military developed the concept, the armor is just produced by manufacturers following the strict guidelines of military.

[24Gamer 0]

must remember that body armour doesnt cover the whole body, so i recon you could be shot a dozen time in the chest without dieing (might get severe bruising or end up in hospital) but for example you got shot in the leg several times or just in the head once then you could quite easily die, it would be awesome if BIS could simulate armour that actually deflects bullets and protects the player.

[funnyguy1 0]

My opinion:

If you`re shoot, no matter where, you`re stunned for a sec, and then the adrenaline does the job. You could even run sometimes, or behave like nothing happened, but as the shock goes away you`re begining to feel the results.

So you`re neither dead, nor able to fight.

And gues what?

medics, medevac, body armor, bullets affecting body properely that`s what next gen games need.

edit: to correct myself...as the real life shows, there are, however, some situations, in which you die when shoot...I was going to insert a simle, but I suppose that was a bad idea.

edit2 for ZiiiP: look at the first one

[ziiip 1]

My opinion:

If you`re shoot, no matter where, you`re stunned for a sec, and then the adrenaline does the job. You could even run sometimes, or behave like nothing happened, but as the shock goes away you`re begining to feel the results.

Maybe this works for 1-2 bullets, but after that you're dead meat.

[Jack-o 0]

Well my thinking onbody armor is:

-make more tipes , heavy , light , medium

-the heavyer it is more armor it provides and lowers ur speed

-the lighet it is , it provides less armor and more speed (ideal for blackops)

-The next one is range which u are fired upon

-the closer the enmy shoots u from , more likely ul be kiled

-close shot is 100% penetrates every body armor

so u die

[@cero 0]

Well my thinking onbody armor is:

-make more tipes , heavy , light , medium

-the heavyer it is more armor it provides and lowers ur speed

-the lighet it is , it provides less armor and more speed (ideal for blackops)

-The next one is range which u are fired upon

-the closer the enmy shoots u from , more likely ul be kiled

-close shot is 100% penetrates every body armor

so u die

You should add amunition tipes affecting what tipes of armor.

This is a lot of calculations for such little time. We may see a body armor, but I don't think is going to be working like we would like, they'll just make the unit take more shots, I can't see BIS calculating all this stuff when they are talking about releasing AA in mid 2006.

I would be happy with a body armor that can be added in the inventory like in many other games. Maybe after AA release BIS could release a patch with that on it, like with the mini and other things.

If that body armour was available in the inventory, the unit's performance could drop down a bit due to be wearing the body armor.

It would be interesting to be able to have different tipes of amunition for the same weapon too, that in convination with the body armor would make the weapons selection ingame much much more interesting. So to say, if you know your enemy is not going to use body armor, then you'll may choose 9mm soft point for your hand gun. On the other side, if you know your enemy is going to use sofpoint kind of amunitions instead of FMJ or AP then you'll like to have some kind of body armor on.

Depending on what mission you'll play you could choose to use protection or not.

I'm not too bother anyway, because this can allways be done by the comunity. Saying that, this could be done in OFP now.

Regards.

@CERO.

[Mahatma 0]

as far as I know lethality of a bullet is based on its momentum (somewhat velocity*weight?) and, like mentioned in the previous post, idea is preventing a fatal wound rather than full protection, less speed means less lethality...

As far as physics go e=m*v*v,so it makes more sense to halve the weight of the bullet and make it go twice as fast,than double the weight.But I would guess that the body armour is strongest in the MOST vulnerable part of the body (ie the chest,head).

Anybody read about the englishman in iraq who had four hits in his helmet,and still lived?If one of those were direct hit-and it is highly likely that it was a 7.62mm-then the helmets must be incredible!

Just my 2 cents:)

[GBee 0]

Anybody read about the englishman in iraq who had four hits in his helmet,and still lived?If one of those were direct hit-and it is highly likely that it was a 7.62mm-then the helmets must be incredible!

No it was 5.56 from his friend's weapon. After the story hit the newspapers he was forced to admit that they had fired at the helmet whilst he was not wearing it. It was a while ago now so I can't remember the exact detail but I believe it started as a joke and was quickly blown out of proportion.

Just found the news report which followed about 2 weeks later:

http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30100-12287676,00.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2948747.stm

Edit: Added links to the story

[Randy 0]

From my understanding, body armor is improving, for example, my impression based on review articles i've read regarding 'dragon skin' body armor from Pinnacle, I think thats the name of the company, is able to withstand several muzzle velocity assault rifle hits, AP included. The armor is expensive but apparently highly effective, with impact energy and weight distribution being the most optimal of todays products, so that the wearer is not put out of action from 1 or 2 hits. To quote (obviously company PR can be an exaggeration, but the author of the defense article seems to agree) dragon skin is '30 years ahead of all previous solutions'.

Any proportion of this can be taken as spin obviously, but the effectiveness of body armor should defintely not be understated in ArmA. Personally, I'd throw on as much armor as possible if I was on campaign anywhere, as would any soldier who wants to come home to their family.

[max power 21]

This brings to mind a good point. It is not necessarily only the technology that is lacking- it is also the cost of the units.

They could, for example, design a car that would allow the operator to withstand a 200 km/h crash into a brick wall relatively unharmed. The cost of something such as this would be astronomical, not to mention the machine would probably hardly look like a car in any conventional sense.

So, I'd imagine that it would be possible to design body armour that can do all sorts of fancy stuff... but how much is the army willing to pay for such a thing?

[Randy 0]

True, cost bears the highest consideration to those up top, but the latest and greatest equipment is always available to the elite forces, such as Delta Force, SAS and many others. Its possible we will be able to play as one of these units im sure.

[Bergmania 0]

I think that in most western armys the infantry grunt usally only have "shrapnel-proof" protection.. The weight of tha "bullet-proof" armour is just to great. And since something like 80% of all casualties are made by shrapnel that kinda make sense.

Vehicle crews and other "high value" personel have the level III and IV body armours with ceramic/steel plates.