Hope Realism is a factor

[1-75th_bco_ltc=isaac 0]

I played OFP, but have been waiting for a newer game to come out for years with the same type platform.  Now I play America's Army, and do love the realism it offers except the few bugs that never seem to get fixed, or that pop up with newer versions.  With Armed Assault I hope you have the same option to bring up iron sites, and also to leave the knifes out of the game.  Bunny hopping and straff shooting is another problem which takes atvantange of lag in the game code or connection speeds.  One thing I did not like about OFP was the controls and the control options to map out your keys for game play.  The scrolling up and down to select weapons or positions in a vehicle was shotty to say the least, and would sway my decision to not buying the game in a quick hurry.  Most gamers today are looking for more and more realism from military sim games, and I do hope we get this from Armed Assault.

One thing I did forget was to mention the CEM in America's Army. This CEM meter increases or decreases your soldiers ability to fire. When your CEM is low, your accuracy is lowered. Your CEM is lowered if you jump, or when your are moving around. It also lowers when you are being fired on, which simulates battle awarness and stress. They fixed the bunny hopping by lowering the CEM drasticly when your soldier jumps, and you have to wait for you CEM to raise before you can attempt a long range shot, or be as effective as your enemy which may be in the prone or crouched ready possition. Also, your CEM is over all descreased as your soldier is wounded. Your CEM can raise by lessoning your movements, or being close to your squad. If your soldier is prone your CEM is higher than if you were crouched or standing.

This realism is what draws so many to this game, and again I hope that the devs of Armed Assault do figure this in to game play as it is needed to create the most realism you can get from online sims.

[gandalf the white 0]

-It is generally assumed a person in combat carrying X kilograms of gear doesn't jump.

-running sideways is possible, running sideways and making headshots is another.

CEM is the arcade version of OFP's system.

+ when you are scared, your aim gets worse (lack of squad)

+ when you are shot in the arms, your gun sways

+ the more stable you are, the less your gun sways

the big plus: YOUR AIM ISN'T SHOWN AS A ROUND CIRCLE BUT AS A FECKING DOT THAT ATLEAST REASLISTICLY AIMS WHERE YOUR BULLET WOULD LAND!!

what is your point with this thread? the first paragraph only says the action menu is a bitch (and it is when the addonmaker has made every door / window of your car openable) , and the second paragraph talks about downgrading ofp?!

[JdB 151]

Quote[/b] ]Most gamers today are looking for more and more realism from military sim games

Just out of curiousity, which games/simulators would that be besides the before mentioned OFP/ArmA/VBS1 and America's Army?

[Heatseeker 0]

This realism is what draws so many to this game, and again I hope that the devs of Armed Assault do figure this in to game play as it is needed to create the most realism you can get from online sims.

I thought the price was what drawned so many to the army game, anyway AA's realism is not that big and having CEM bars in Arma is all we dont need/want, its awfull .

If we run tired or get shot our sights will sway and the shots will be less stable, if we are prone or crouched the rifle will also be more stable, we dont need no CEM bars to know that just like we dont need a compass integrated in the HUD to tell north from south , AA is no sim, its a corridor shooter in U.S. army skins, its alright but i get tired of it fast usually.

Its a good thing that you like it but this is not the proper section, there is a AA:SF open thread in the off topic section of the forum .

[LoTekK 0]

CEM. Ha! I'll thank you to not tell me when I should or should not be fearing for my life. The way I've always figured it, if a guy isn't fearful while under heavy fire, and continues to pop out and fire away, more power to him. And the hail of bullets that cut him down.

Quote[/b] ]The scrolling up and down to select weapons or positions in a vehicle was shotty to say the least, and would sway my decision to not buying the game in a quick hurry.

Um. o_O

[BraTTy 0]

I'll take the action bar over Americas Army lack of land mass and vehicles anyday.More realism please

I was offended at the direct comparision to AA too.Comparing a 3d shooter close-quarters combat game to a all out war simulator with vehicles and places to hide (cause you need to)

[llauma 0]

I dont need the game to tell me when I should be stressed because someone is shooting at me. I always play without respawn so many time I, as a player get stressed when someone is shooting at me, hence my aim is probably worse than normally.

[1-75th_bco_ltc=isaac 0]

How many of you have been in combat, it's not as if you just snap into some momment of bliss where you pull your rifle to the ready and fire off rounds down range with accuracy.  While I have not played OFP to the extent as some of you, I only look forward to more realism in the gamming arena.  America's Army is a CQC type game, and that is the reason I do look forward to Armed Assault, but however, I don't want to aim my interest into a game where bunny hopping and straff shooting while handling a knife is allowed.  Nor do I feel the need to have some snot nose kid talking like a big man to me on a forum that is here for the purpose of discussion.  So if you would please, hold your tounge like an adult, if you can do that much.

I have been there kiddo's, and listening to the lip from some on these forums is less than needed.  Learn Loyalty, Duty, Restpect, Selfless-service, Honor, Integrity, and Personal Courage.

If you don't know what that is...... I do in all honesty feel sorry for you.

P.S. Respawn is not even close to what a military sim needs. Time limit on maps to where you don't come back until the mission is either a success or failure.

[xnodunitx 0]

I'm not quite understanding what you mean by scrolling up for weaopns,unless you mean taking a weapon out of a vehicle then I can understand,otherwise just use the spacebar.

Considering there was no bunnyhopping in OFP I doubt that this will be included in ArmAus,too many people would abuse the privilege and cause more issues than it would do for good.

In a way OFP has its own type of CEM,though its more of a lifelike thing rather than whats in the game thus I doubt many people have the effect,basicly.

I am in a situation where I have an enemy tank somewhere in the area,I can hear it but my map shows nothing,so naturally I pace is either quicker or slower,I turn to look in all directions and my reactions are quick however maybe off,or as some call it,a nervous break down lol.

I'v never seen respawn except in multiplayer games where the person scripts a respawn point,like a deathmatch or something,even then on actual MP missions I have not seen this happen.

I have to agree with the vehicle position,although choosing your seat where nothing is happening is nice,it would also be nice if there was a specific key that put you into the driver seat,unless there is somebody inside,then you go into the passenger seat.

But its probably too late for these things,I guess we'll have to wait and see what happens.

[BraTTy 0]

Heya 1-75th_BCO_LTC=Isaac ...if I read your name properly and your what..Lt Colonel? If so I mean no disrespect,I am ex-military

OFP has its CQC limits and surely they will better in next following releases.I honestly don't care if they bunny hop or what they want to do.If they have to implement that to get the new generation of gaming kids involved,so be it.

Because I am more of a mechanized unit and my (Tank,Chopper etc..) will blow the ground from their feet and they will bunny hop in their own grave.

I get offended when you would like our favorite simulator to play like a 3dshooter like Americas Army.The game has no vehicles and no comparision.Those bunny hop tactics don't work the same with vehicles.It gives out your position.Hop if you want

edit: sorry just so 3dshootered out (wolf3d,quake 123,ut etc..)

[BraTTy 0]

A new post...I know.Its different

On the topic of "I hope realism is a factor" you have me worried now.....

With the new generation of games and war happening right now.I hope Arma/OFP doesn't head to the CQC tactical shooter way.Because I want vehicles.Even the war in Iraq has direct vehicle support.The game needs to make us of its wide open areas and such.Asides from the CQC soldier only missions which I do like too.I hope they game plays along the lines of Battlefield 2 and NOTHING like Americas Army please.

Battlefield 2 requires vehicle support on many maps to take over points

As many know,I would have never played OFP long without the vehicles.Would have had the shelf life of about 2 months like the free game Americas Army

[stakex 0]

A new post...I know.Its different

On the topic of "I hope realism is a factor" you have me worried now.....

With the new generation of games and war happening right now.I hope Arma/OFP doesn't head to the CQC tactical shooter way.Because I want vehicles.Even the war in Iraq has direct vehicle support.The game needs to make us of its wide open areas and such.Asides from the CQC soldier only missions which I do like too.I hope they game plays along the lines of Battlefield 2 and NOTHING like Americas Army please.

Battlefield 2 requires vehicle support on many maps to take over points

As many know,I would have never played OFP long without the vehicles.Would have had the shelf life of about 2 months like the free game Americas Army

Well Im not quite sure why your worried about the game turrning more to CQC. The maps are going to be much larger then the old FP maps, and as we can see from the screenshots, there are going to be MORE vehicles added to the game. Remember ArmA is just a more powerful OPF... not an entierly new game. I surrgest you read the recent Press Release stickied at the top of the boards...

However I disagree on the CQC aspect. Most people seem to think the game can't have both... and when it comes to the old OPF thats true. But now with fixed collision detection, CQC in large cities will likely be a big factor in OPF. We know from the press release the new map will have large cities with many fully accessible buildings... so CQC will be there.

And a side note... as where its not cool to compare anything Flashpoint with Americas Army... its also laughable to compare it to Battlefeild 2. BF2's an arcade shooter, plain and simple... with little to no realisim.

[BraTTy 0]

It certainly is but requires some teamwork between soldiers and vehicles.And is based upon FPS w/ vehicles

Battlefield 2 is fairly large scale warfare

[Balschoiw 0]

Am I the only one who doesn´t get the idea behind this thread ?

[Hekezu 0]

I have been playing Operation Flashpoint and America's Army since their first launch day. America's Army is aimed towards realism, yes but it will take pretty long until they manage to achieve the same depth as OFP could, and what Armed Assault will add to that.

Long range maps are my favorite in America's Army but in the newest version there are some serous bugs in the drawing distance with player models. You can see the landscape further than you can see the players so you can't scan your surroundings from far enough like in OFP.

CQB was pretty bad in OFP thanks to buggy collission system but it'll be fixed in Armed Assault. Also BIS will probably add the leaning around corners feature. I don't play OFP so much nowadays because I have a clan/squad to manage in America's Army. But I will convert my clan to ArmA as soon as it is released or we can get our hands on a demo. I'm sure they will love it but most of them are FX-whores. When they can see deeper than the surface, they won't be coming back.

America's Army is still far away from realism. The first step back is the enviroment. Maps are small and most of them have only a few possible tactics to choose from. As said above America's Army focuses on the infantry combat after the troops have been deployed to the battlefield, so no drivable vehicles. Round times are usually limited to 10 minutes while in OFP and ArmA operations can take anything from 15 mins to 2 hours.

I have been in a lot of clan matches and I can say the game is not realistic at all. Guys bunnyhop around corners and headshot (yes, even after they limited jumping! ) and m203 grenades are way too accurate. Weapon modding is awesome though. And in matches CEM really isn't in that great position as you describe. A mediocre player can headshoot you while you try to pin him down with your machinegun which usually lowers CEM a lot.

I also miss the feature to wreck your legs so you have to crawl. In America's Army you still can run but not as fast as you used to. But I love the bleeding feature. Medics in OFP weren't realistic. But on the other hand ArmA will offer scripting possibilities justl ike OFP. Modding/mission making community can make their own bleeding and medic scripts so it isn't that black and white.

ArmA will also offer wide variety of user made content which America's Army won't offer! And that content has kept OFP alive for 4 and a half years! America's Army gets its patches, yes, but they are released pretty rarely and usually contain more bugs than actual fixes.

I agree that America's Army has been developed towards the realism but it still doesn't offer as much as Armed Assault will. America's Army is still under development and the developer team lisenced Unreal engine 3 which surely will offer a lot! Both games have a lot to offer, even for eachother. But while talking about realism America's Army will come third after Armed Assault and OFP. I will still continue to play America's Army but what I'm really looking forward is Armed Assault. I can love them all.

[Heatseeker 0]

Am I the only one who doesn´t get the idea behind this thread ?  

Someone thinks ARMA should be more like America's Army? And we should all play the game like the army wants, aparently a military mission throws soldiers into a big shooting arena and when someone goes for the objectives the others start bitching . Aparently if the soldier doesnt acomplish his objectives in 10 minuts or less the operation is called off.

I would rather tell the Army to make a proper sim instead of a propaganda tool that shows the military, war and weapons has cool things to appeal to the kids, and while at it they could also fix the netcode and lag on some maps...

Armed Assault wont be a u.s. army game, i would even like it better if it focused on other armed forces..

This thread serves no porpuse.

[privatenoob 0]

AmericaArmy is no sim, not even close unless you compare it to CS or BF42 and the DEVS of AmericasArmy has made it clear that AmericasArmy

will blend realism and "dumb fun" in a balanced way. Therefore it will never be a realistic combat sim.(simply because they do not STRIVE towards making one.)

Although I applaude the 2.5 version with its changes that made all CS-nerds go bananas.

And since you cant even compare Arma to AA in gameplay,

objectives and so forth, why not compare it to any other game

out there. Like Hidden and Dangerous 2......atleast that game has

more in common then AA does.

I play AmericasArmy when I want fast action dumb fun that doesnt challenge me, its a great game and its fun but it lacks everything that OFP has

that make you feel like you truly are on the battlefield. And thats what a real sim game should do.

(and not focusing on each players fragrate.)

[robert(uk) 0]

Despite its stability, Hidden & Dangerous 2 is the greatest game I currently play. It has no jumping whatsoever, but you can climb onto things, which I think is great, and it would be neat to see something like that in ArmA. The vehicle system in H&D 2 would be ideal for ArmA also. In H&D 2 you just press Space by a vehicle and it brings up a list of available places (seats) in that vehicle, and you just select the number of the seat you want to get into. This method is also used for opening doors and other similar interactions.

I wil always think H&D 2 is awesome, simply because it keeps drawing me back over games like BF 2. The H&D 2 community is fairly small now, but it's a very dedicated one...

[Scrub 0]

It seems 'realism' is a bit of an arbitrary term.  

@ 1-75th_BCO_LTC=Isaac: I know they are long, but have you looked at the threads of everybody's ideas and hopes for ArmA?  Moving toward realism has been 95% what the community is posting for the past 1-2 years (longer, everyone?) .  Everything from more character feedback, natural movement and control, to better damage models.  So, that's probably why you've had such harsh comments comming back at you. Now, how the CEM functions is basically in OFP now, running & damage messing your aim, so altering it might not be a big thing (NOT a guru at knowing these things).  The unrealistic portion of what you presented is an actual meter that tells the player "Hey! You're F@#*^%@ scared, and that slug you took hurts like a @*#%#!"  This can be done, and to a point IS in mods like ECP, with effects like tunnel vision, sounds of your breath, modified sounds in general, shaking arms, grey/blackouts. Limitations on your movement or speed thereof.  The realism factor that many have posted (correct me if I'm wrong, please), is to have only the emulated senses that a person has.  Many times in crisis situations the only way I've known I'm scared or hurt is by looking, or how my body reacts to the adrenalin (or endorphins ) and thinking "that's strange, why am I shaking, and why do fall down?" -the anterior cruciate (think that's what it's called) was torn in my knee.  

Just some thoughts, the more realism, the better!  

[stakex 0]

It certainly is but requires some teamwork between soldiers and vehicles.And is based upon FPS w/ vehicles

Battlefield 2 is fairly large scale warfare

Don't get me wrong, I do play quite a bit of BF2 and think its a lot of fun...

But IMO there is nothing about it that makes it realistic. Sure, it needs cooperation between teamates (which almost never happens) and requiers the use of vehicles. But thoes factors don't really make it realistic... quite personally I think the vehicles in BF2 are a real joke.

And after playing OPF its impossible for me at least, to call BF2 anything more then a small, sandbox war game. Some of the maps, like the Damn are fairly large... but with only 64 max players the maps are mostly baren with small skirmishes. At least with OPF you could add in AI for missions that are really large. And sicne BF2 only has one gamemode your SOL for playing anything other then a restricted capture the flag.

BF2 is a fun game for what it is... but OPF has its own vehicle combat, which is realistic... and BF2 has its own arcade style combat. ArmA will continue with the OPF style... and leave the BF2 style where it belongs

[hipacross 0]

i've been playing ofp for years, from the time it was put out! The last thing i would want to see is it become anthing like America's Army.

[canukausiuka 1]

Personally, I think the CEM part of Americas Army does a decent job of making suppressing fire useful. Better than, say, Brothers in Arms. However, it would not work directly brought to an OFP-style game. I would really like to see some sort of suppressive fire accounted for.

Of course, I want ArmA regardless of whether it has suppressive fire or not, or improved AI or not. The new engine alone is enough to have me wanting it.

[Hekezu 0]

i've been playing ofp for years, from the time it was put out! The last thing i would want to see is it become anthing like America's Army.

Well, weapon models and animations are a lot better. When you switch the firing mode, there's an animation for it. For example if you have an m203 launcher attached to your m16 and switch to that, the player will raise the launcher's sights, BUT you can't use the sight which is disappointing.

The gun can jam so you have to fix the jam. The player clears the chamber and sees if it is actually clear and you'll lose the round in the chamber. So the game "simulates" the bullet in a gun's chamber so if you reload your m16 twice in a row you'll end up with 31 rounds. Sounds useless but the one bullet can save your life and it's realistic.

So, there are some aspects that are really well done in America's Army and should be seen in Armed Assault as well, or at least in "Game 3". Currently in OFP we don't have good animations for reloading so hopefully we'll get some new ones for Armed Assault.

[hoot 0]

Quote[/b] ]Well, weapon models and animations are a lot better.

compared to a 4 year old game! compare it to latest 1985 mods/enhancements and you will see

Quote[/b] ]When you switch the firing mode, there's an animation for it.

well, when i was in basic training at battalions' shooting range i shot with g3, uzi, g36... and believe me, i didn't raise any of those guns to my eyes for switching firemodes, i did it 'blindly'. so my point is, i don't need an animation when i perform actions by using a finger or a thumb! the barrel shall always be directed towards the enemy, seconds decide. switching firemodes blindly, avoids the gun to cant (when shooting while switching firemodes)!

Quote[/b] ]For example if you have an m203 launcher attached to your m16 and switch to that, the player will raise the launcher's sights, BUT you can't use the sight which is disappointing.

this is an example how eyecandy works its like needless animations mentioned above. if it works, fine - if it makes no sense for any usage, it becomes just futile!

Quote[/b] ]The gun can jam so you have to fix the jam. The player clears the chamber and sees if it is actually clear and you'll lose the round in the chamber. So the game "simulates" the bullet in a gun's chamber so if you reload your m16 twice in a row you'll end up with 31 rounds. Sounds useless but the one bullet can save your life and it's realistic.

jamming is fine, but there are lots of more reasons a gun can jam simulating all makes it a real (visible) advantage!

Quote[/b] ]Sounds useless but the one bullet can save your life and it's realistic.

once that jamming is implemented in arma/ngg, you'll find such features as well for sure.

comparing ofp to those pseudo mil.tac.sims is just blasphemy.

i've played aa for 2hrs and it was nothing that kicked me out of my boots...all of it was seen before - in ofp.

furthermore, im more than sceptical about games made by gouvernments. aa makes war shiny and heroic, but war is dirty. to speak through altman's m*a*s*h (btw: nice to have it on the medictents in ofp ): "fuck the army!"

anyhow, everybody should game what he/she wants to, but without harming others in the realworld of course :P

[Hekezu 0]

...if it makes no sense for any usage, it becomes just futile!

Ofcourse, I understand but don't you think BIS should some day add these kind of features in to the engine so atleast mod makers can make their add-ons to the top notch! We all know that add-on makers want as many things to be modeled and simulated as possible.

For example weapons could have "holding spots" where soldier's hands automatically attach to and you can include your own gun holding stance animation and reloading animation in your add-on. Ofcourse this requires a lot of work from BIS to make soldiers' hands seperate from the the other body so the different parts could have different animations.

But what comes to America's Army it is easier to make those kind of things to work because 1st person models and 3rd person models are different. I do think that the realism comes first and then eye candy but BIS is already improving the graphical side of Armed Assault so why not allow these kind of things? Answer: It takes time to code those things. Instead of having super cool weapon animations we still want to see leaning feature, improved armor/armor penetration code and so-long-wanted multiple gunner positions in Armed Assault.

We are in the same boat but you shouldn't really kick down America's Army. It's a great game but comes nowhere near OFP nor ArmA, and we agree on that. My point was just both games have a lot to give to each other.