FFUR - Huge Release !!

[Journeyman 0]

So your attitude is "They're going to use your addons and all you addon makers can shut up and sit in the corner" ? That's a nice way to act.

Just who are you quoting here? I've not read this anywhere! I don't see anyone being disrespectfull to addon makers! Addon makers have been the hub of this comunity and we all respect their work! Please keep it in perspective.

Like I said if U have issues then discuss it privately, not here thank you!  

[Thunderbird 0]

I think this debate should end in this topic, and as reported more than once, all people being involved in FFUR by their work are or will be kindly thanked for supplying their talent.

The cooperation would have been better if some people would have never taken part in this topic, or if they would have done it more kindly.

Rokosfl, as far as I know, we don't use any of your 'RKSL' addons and you aren't a current member of Falklands mod team.

CBFASI and I found a suitable aggreement about the Lynx, though.

I regret if some people sensitivities have been hurt because of of the fact that we usually use addons first before crediting people for their original work, but I repeat again, this is a common method used by total conversion mods such as EECP, Y2K3, etc since a while... and this is so far the best method to work the most efficiently, try to understand that, or maybe you will understand it when you'll get the FFUR European Crisis pack.

(Had to withdraw some aspects of 'social life' routine in order to accomplish it in less than 5 weeks).

In any way, this is the last release we'll do for ofp. we will re think our methods and go for the alternatives that might be more convenent and far more effecient in order to avoid such situations in the future.

Merry christmas all.

Best Regards

Thunderbird84

[Guest RKSL-Rock]

Rokosfl, as far as I know, we don't use any of your 'RKSL' addons and you aren't a current member of Falklands mod team.

Ahem,now whos casting nasties. I think you will find I am very much a current and active member of the Falklands team – if you had actually bothered to read the team roster you would see:

http://www.flashpoint1982.co.uk/meet_the_team.php

Look at for Rockape, my usual name of every forum but this.

CBFASI and I found a suitable aggreement about the Lynx, though.

Yes I know you did because I was part of the debate on the FLK internal forums.

I regret if some people sensitivities have been hurt because of of the fact that we usually use addons first before crediting people for their original work, but I repeat again, this is a common method used by total conversion mods such as EECP, Y2K3, etc since a while... and this is so far the best method to work the most efficiently, try to understand that, or maybe you will understand it when you'll get the FFUR European Crisis pack.

(Had to withdraw some aspects of 'social life' routine in order to accomplish it in less than 5 weeks).

You have some bloody cheek, this is not the common method used by total conversion mods at all.  EECP and Y2K3 actually make an effort to ask before proceeding. This is just the selfish practice of someone too lazy to ask permission.  Using this method you back honest mod teams into a corner so they cant say no.  Because if they did all you would do is what you are doing now…coming all self rightous claiming you aren't doing anything wrong. You are being arrogant and too self important to say you were wrong and apologise.

As for sacrificing your own social life to accomplish this assembly of other people’s work…what about the addon makers who spend months making stuff that you just ‘adapt’ for you own purposes.

In any way, this is the last release we'll do for ofp. we will re think our methods and go for the alternatives that might be more convenent and far more effecient in order to avoid such situations in the future.

I should hope you are rethinking your methods and perhaps come to realise that you are part of the community and not THE community.

[Thunderbird 0]

Dude, listen, this debate should end on this topic, and stop claiming yourself 'mister I know everything'...

if you wish to continue it then do it by pm.

I know Y2K3 and EECP very well as I worked with pappy at several times, and have even been an EECP beta tester a while ago (before to build FFUR).

Merry christmas again and take a break, you really need it.

[Guest RKSL-Rock]

Dude, listen, this debate should end on this topic, and stop claiming yourself 'mister I know everything'...

if you wish to continue it then do it by pm.

I know Y2K3 and EECP very well as I worked with pappy at several times, and have even been an EECP beta tester a while ago (before to build up FFUR).

Merry christmas again and take a break, you really need it.

Sorry if anyone else is getting pissed off with this but im tired of this being ignored, bullshitted away or just laughed at.

Lets keep it in the public eye for a few more minutes shall we. My aim in all of this is to get you to respect addon maker’s rights. Which you say you acknowledge then, a sentence latter admit you disregard them at will. You owe some people here an apology, me included.

I'm not claiming myself to "know everything" nor am i trying to be the spokesman for the entire addon making fraternity but I do know what has gone on here and how you are acting.

You are out of order and you know it - originally you were under the impression it was the Malvinas mods model, you got "confused" and changed it in the list but only after CBFASI contacted you. Now you've done everything under the sun to make yourself appear onthe right side of the fence in this debate.

You've done some really good work with FFUR so far, I’ve actually enjoyed it to this point. I’m sure you've enjoyed the benefits of those successes but they dont give you the right to do whatever you want. It does make you more responsible for the future of this community. Right now you are just setting a bad precedent for future Mod Teams.

My aim in this is really quite simple - get you to acknowledge you've done the wrong thing and apologise. Simple way to settle this isn’t it.

Merry Christmas to you too.

<edits for spelling>

[william1 0]

how bad is the envy ! keep it up TB , you are the best

[Guest RKSL-Rock]

how bad is the envy !  keep it up TB , you are the best  

LMAO envy? not at all.

[Thunderbird 0]

Quote[/b] ]Lets keep it in the public eye for a few more minutes shall we. My aim in all of this is to get you to respect addon makers rights.

Stop making us look bad by indirectly accusing us of 'direspectful stealers', we respect addon makers, we always gave'em full credits but I think you still don't understand or you prefer to not understand it.

Quote[/b] ]I'm not claiming myself to "know everything" but i do know whats gone on here and how you are acting.

You're acting as you're believing yourself higher than everyone here, who are you to judge people? judge yourself first before judging others.

Quote[/b] ]You are out of order and you know it - originally you were under the impression it was the Malvinas mods model, you got "confused" and changed it in the list but only after CBFASI contacted you.

Yeah I did a mistake because both mods of both countries are working on the same theme, but I apologized for it anyway, what else should I do? were you expecting I'll get lynched or shot?

Quote[/b] ] Now you've done everything under the sun to make yourself appear onthe right side of the fence in this debate.

aren't you talking about yourself?

Quote[/b] ]but they dont give you the right to do whatever you want

Dude, My rights are like yours, like everyone here.

Quote[/b] ]Right now you are just setting a bad precedent for future Mod Teams

You really should take a break. Mouthpiece role is too tiring/

Knew people more talented but thousand times more friendly and more modest.

Edited /spelling typos

[Guest RKSL-Rock]

Stop making us look bad by indirectly accusing us of 'direspectful  stealers', we respect addon makers, we always gave'em full credits but I think you still don't understand or you prefer to not understand it.

 I don’t deny you’ve given them credit bit I do maintain you are very disrespectful in your methods, and not once I have said you’ve stolen anything.

You're acting as you're believing yourself higher than everyone here, who are you to judge people? judge yourself first before judging others.

I know im not above anyone else.  I’d prefer to think of myself as community minded.  I’m judging you by the standards other addons makers are judged by, myself included.  Judging from the feedback ive gotten from other members of the community they agree with me.

Yeah I did a mistake because both mods of both countries are working on the same theme, but I apologized for it anyway, what else should I do? were you expecting I'll get lynched or shot?

Not at that time but I am starting to look fondly on the idea of a lynching

aren't you talking about yourself?

Not from where I’m sat I’ve maintained the same argument all along and haven’t resorted to the lame excuse of “everyone else does it so I am tooâ€.  Even if they did do it, it still wouldn’t make it right.

Dude, My rights are like yours, like everyone here.

Yeah they are and im sure if someone else took “your work†and repackaged it you’d be just as upset.  Which is why we as a community have to stand up and say this sort of thing is wrong and agree a community wide approach.

Its accepted practice to ask permission prior to adapting and/or modify other people’s work, and most people here accept that with a smile.  Whould it atleast kill you to send out and email to anyone involved before starting?

Quote[/b] ]Right now you are just setting a bad precedent for future Mod Teams

You really should take a break. Mouthpiece role is too tiring/

Only to those who don’t want to hear what is being said it seems.

Knew people more talented but thousand times more friendly and more modest.

So have I and they have a lot more respect for the work of others it seems.

[Thunderbird 0]

Quote[/b] ]I don’t deny you’ve given them credit bit I do maintain you are very disrespectful in your methods, and not once I have said you’ve stolen anything.

You have yours, I have mine, mine seem to satisfie people around, and to satisfie all those great people from the community who built ffur, nobody complained about'em until now, unlike that, some of them even supported us and are still supporting us.

Dude listen carefully, instead of playing frustrated bull.... because we used your lynx even if Colonel klink did the most of job and even if we got the permission to use it.

I decided to withdraw it in order you will stop whinning and stop killing this thread.

I'll stop the upload the FFUR European Crisis and will entirely remake the installer, just in order to avoid seeing you complaining and wasting everything around by your arguments without any sense.

[Guest RKSL-Rock]

Quote[/b] ]I don’t deny you’ve given them credit bit I do maintain you are very disrespectful in your methods, and not once I have said you’ve stolen anything.

You have yours, I have mine, mine seem to satisfie people around, and to satisfie all those great people from the community who built ffur, nobody complained about'em until now, unlike that, some of them even supported us and are still supporting us.

Dude listen carefully, instead of playing frustrated bull.... because we used your lynx even if Colonel klink did the most of job and even if we got the permission to use it.

I decided to withdraw it in order you will stop whinning and stop killing this thread.

I'll stop the upload the FFUR European Crisis and will entirely remake the installer, just in order to avoid seeing you complaining and wasting everything around by your arguments without any sense.

grow a backbone... i'll happily stop this all you need do is get of that high horse.

[Thunderbird 0]

You are whinning since at least 5 or 6 hours...without real reasons, you're just inventing'em in order to feel yourself as 'offended'.

playing a kind of imaginary lawyer who's deffending some imaginary rights that you're inventing, playing an imatture child...

I voluntarily appologized in order to calm down the situation but seems you have even increased your sarcasm believing yourself a kinda 'winna'...

I would like you stop that, I contacted moderators in order to avoid to see this thread locked at 2 days from the last release.

I never came to waste any of your topics, I ask you to do the same...

[Guest RKSL-Rock]

You are whinning since at least 5 or 6 hours...without real reasons, you're just inventing'em in order to feel yourself as 'offended'.

playing a kind of imaginary lawyer who's deffending some imaginary rights that you're inventing, playing an imatture child...

I voluntarily appologized in order to calm down the situation but seems you have even increased your sarcasm believing yourself a kinda 'winna'...

I would like you stop that, I contacted moderators in order to avoid to see this thread locked at 2 days from the last release.

I never came to waste any of your topics, I ask you to do the same...

If you think this is imaginary issues then you've missed the entire point of this little debate.

But then I wasnt the one who resorted to insults etc but yeah i think this has run it course.

Ive no wish to see people dissapointed before Christmas, and atleast you do now have formal permission to use the Lynx.

Have a merry Xmas and i hope no one steals "your" work.

[CanadianTerror 0]

I think it ran it's course 5 pages ago.

At this point, you two will have to cease and desist so some OFP players can get this back on topic.

[Thunderbird 0]

Quote[/b] ]Have a merry Xmas and i hope no one steals "your" work.

No one has stolen your stuff.

->

Quote[/b] ]Permission is given under condition...

The Lynx cannot be modifed in any way and full credits must be given to both Col Klink (the guy that made it) and the 1982: Flashpoint in the Falklands team.

your debate was entirely imaginary cuz we never got a problem until you posted tonight. Everything was going very well and I think that's what's disturbing ya.

You're a flamer, and there's a rule against flamers.

I've 'civilly' and sincerely explained ya the concept of a total conversion mod, the reasons behind some of our methods.

but you prefered to use 'sarcasm' way by spending my whole night on your case.

In any way, best to ignore you until a moderator will check out the thread and its current status.

[philcommando 0]

Woah..take it easy thunderbird..cant please em all. Folks like u and papy are doing the community a huge favour with such packs, getting it organised and beta testing it to find for bugs which at times individual or team addonmakers may not be able to do so.

The way i look at it is that such conversions are nothing more than an avenue for good and reliable addons to be downloaded, rather than for users to hunt all over the internet to find something compatible for missions- the sole purpose for addons. Heck! Addonmakers should thank Thunderbird and his team of beta testers for taking out the bugs..its a thankless task such teams took on and sure dont deserved to be hassled in public.

While most addonmakers are generally respected in community, i dont find thunderbird or papy disrespecting anyone till they are hassled unfoundedly. They give credit where credit is due. I am sure all this is a misunderstanding, so lets shake hands and be merry. Its Christmas and a toast of Auld lang syn to ofp1 as Arma readies to be shipped!

[Placebo 29]

The Lynx matter should have been resolved in private between both parties, without public accusations and counter-accusations. Airing the dirty linen in public serves only to harm the reputations of all involved.

[gunterlund 0]

God this topic again. Bottom line, if you dont want your addon used, then dont publish. My opinion, is once you publish an addon its public domain. None of us have ultimate rights to anything made with O2 or runs on this engine anyways. BIS does. They are the only ones that can make money off of any of this. So noone should worry bout capitalizing on this. If you do use someone else's mod,, just reference it in the material and let people know how good it is.

*cough* Urban Myth Read -BIS on Addon Ownerships

Can we move on now people!!.

Yes lets.

Sorry Rock this looks like it mainly refers to Commercial use, not the use of this community. I dont think there is a judge in the world who would prosecute a case dealing with a free addon being used for free purposes.

If you are worried about your addons being used inappropriately dont publish them. Let People come to you and ask if you have an addon to use and you can show them what you have. Otherwise revel in the fact that someone is using your FREE addon to further the joy and entertainment of basically this community.

Relax.

[456820 0]

what the... 3 odd pages of this discussion just end it already

but i feel its no different using someones addon in your mission just in this case the mission isnt made in the editor its just been made with a config he gives credits and have tried to contact the authors if they come by and say you never asked me if you could use my addon then tell them to check their email and they should find an email from TB asking which means hes been trying to contact the authors

Plus if the author of the addon has a big problem with TB using the addons then they should clearly state it in a read me telling them

"You are not authorised to use this addon without the users permission"

then you know not to use it

But if the readme says

"You are welcome to use this addon aslong as it remains unedited"

then just dont edit it

Now can we just end this topic and move onto something else before it gets locked for 48hours like the last one did from this kind of thing well it was actually pestering for a release but anyway just dont get this one locked

anyway hows the progress coming along TB ?

[max power 21]

I fully support RockofSL's point. I think I got the gyst of it without reading the whole argument, although I respect the fact that it's heated and touchy.

Given the attitude of BIS towards addon makers (ie, that they retain ownership of their own work), addons are not the property of the community, and the rights of their owners are fully retained. Maybe I'll post a blurb about the creative commons licensing scheme on that thread about addons and their rights. THis would be a good way for those who would like protection to get it in an easy but definitive way.

[Placebo 29]

This thread is specifically for discussing FFUR, addon ownership rights (as important as they are) should be dealt with seperately, if they pertain to FFUR then directly to Thunderbird84, in more general terms then perhaps in the Addon/Mod Ownership Q&A thread.

Any further attempts to discuss/argue about addon ownsership (from either side) will be met with a post restriction.

[Raptor 10]

right placebo.

don't destroy these project!

looking forward to the Enhanced Dynamic reflection effects.

[456820 0]

Quote[/b] ]looking forward to the Enhanced Dynamic reflection effects

im looking forward to the whole release

cant wait though its sounding good

[Journeyman 0]

TB can we have Santas sledge instead of the Lynx? I've been in touch with Santa and he sais that U have permission to use it provided he can have it back for 24 hours once every Christmas eve! Also if U modify it in any way for carrying weapons please be sure to inform him properly - just incase he accidentally shoots his reindeers while using it for deliveries!  

Get some well deserved sleep TB, we're all really looking forward to the release of your packs!    Like I said before if U have to delay things to get things properly sorted then we will all understand that! Get the best addons, that's what U've always done and we all really appreaciate your hard work in putting all this together!  

[Thunderbird 0]

Hi,

Quote[/b] ]Get some well deserved sleep TB

5 hours are enough at 30 hours from the release.

Thanks all and sorry for what happened on this topic.

In any way, stay tuned!

Will publish a couple of screenshots ASAP!

Best Regards

Thunderbird84