Terrorist attack on London

[wildo 0]

Quote[/b] ]Women suicide bombers don't get to 'paradise' btw.. So what's the point?

no they wake up with david blunkett

Wildo

[bn880 5]

Fine, live in your bubbles, I'm not stupid. They are terror attacks by your enemy, now go deal with it.

Chao

i AM CANADIAN they are our Enemys too

Canadian Troops are in Afganistan or are you living in a bubble ?

Al Qaeda is not actually making plans to attack our soft targets you know. We are not in Iraq.

They are not my enemy, I respect their wish for whitep eople to get the heck out of the ME, and I am Canadain.

I don't support us being in Afghanistan either BTW. I think those who broke it should have been fixing it.

you are sad you must be our enemy to side with the no good terrorrsts and dictators when our troops are doing a fine job to do our part in the war on terror

no we are not in Iraq Afganistan take up all our troops and you shame our Candian troops that are giving the ultimate price they have not targeted us yet but who knows what the future holds...

now WAKE UP or are you a Enemy sympathizer

tough shit you don't support the free world why don't ya move to a place that represents your view you pussy mabe move to Iran you will like it there

nice one, someone may actually believe this incomprehensible shit you jsut wrote. Are you really a moron or being sarcastic?

[Ironsight 1]

Just wanted to illustrate that those leading fuckers like Bin Laden will never commit a suicide attack because he's a big fuckin' coward.

It would be quite stupid for a leader to get himself killed like that, just as it would be stupid for Bush to go fight in Iraq personally for example. Or is that because he's a coward too?

What does suprise me is that all these Al-Qaeda fuckers want to become marters. Don't these leaders want that too? Why don't they go and blow themselves up if they want to become saints in the eyes of future generations? Kinda makes me think

And maybe world leaders are cowards too but it's not their job to go and fight. That's what we in the "civilised world " (if such a thing exists) have an army and soldiers for.

[ACF 0]

Well thank you but if you look at it now, we have Saddam, that is one good thing to have come out of the war.

Except that a Saddam might have been the 'price' of a secular Islamic Iraq instead of a Talibanic or militant Islamic Iraq.  That's why he was supported/tolerated by the West in the 80's. Worse - we may become more like him to deal with the same threat - the militants are hardly going to be swayed by western legal arguments.

By the way, they keep saying it's a war for oil - when's it going to start get cheaper?

[wildo 0]

@bn880,

your beginning to sicken me with your pro terrorist views, leave this thread and stay away, we dont want you here, you know nothing of what goes on in the world

Wildo

[miles teg 1]

You are all being absolutely irrational.

How are Uk soldiers not cowards in Irak then?  They go in with Armor, Air support and bribes, to fight people with nothing but AK's, RPG's, and some old artilelry shells?

Sorry to say people, you are just fully biased.  There is a war going on, and the UK chose to be in it.   They are terrorists, not cowards at all though, not suicidal.  It's the only way they can excert pressure on the UK government.  Through soft targets.

thanks for those reasonable words

So by that logic it would be acceptable if British or American forces secretly placed bombs in public places in Iraq or Afghanistan?

Nah they don't need to.  Its called a 500lb GPS guided bomb frm an F-16.  Collateral dammage (aka civilian deaths) has always been allowed as long as terrorist targets were in the target area.  

You can call them cowards, evil, ect... and say that they must be punished all you want but it won't solve the problem of terrorism.  Who will you punish?  Invade more countries?

The only fool proof military option against terrorism is genocide because limited military retaliation almost always ends up killing Muslim civilians and always causes even MORE support for terrorism.   So unless the West is willing to wage a full on war against Islam to include massive genocide, and concentration camps of Muslims living in the West, then we will have to keep this tit for tat war on terror until eventually more Muslim countries build up their WMD capabilities where they can likewise commit genocide upon the West....and eventually you get some leader crazy enough to do that.

The military option is NOT the answer.  The Answer, which most of you I'm sure disagree with, is to understand how these terrorists think and truly what they believe rather then just labelling them as "cowards" "Crazies" "Terrorists".  

IF you understand what drives these terrorists then you can get to the root of the problem and destroy and wage war against their ideology which is NOT based upon traditional Islam.    But US gov. officials dont' want to do this because they've been taking the advice of idiot so called "Middle East experts" like Robert Spencer, Daniel Pipes, and Serge Trifkovic all of whom say that diologue is impossible with Islam and that they are out to rule the world and must stopped at all cost.   For many Christians this is a much more appealing message because they feel as if they are living in the end times and Armeggeddon is approaching.  For many fundamentalist Christians it brings great pride in being Christian into their hearts as well as great righteous hatred for who they see as the forces of Satan.  Just as fundamentalist militant Muslims likewise feel like they are on the side of God and fighting against the oppressors of Islam who are keeping Islam down and killing Muslims around the world.  So for them a terrorist attack is not a simple attack on innocent people.  It is simply part of an "eye for an eye" belief even though these idiots are usually NOT RELATED TO ANY civilians who have died in Iraq.   They ignore in the Qu'ran that it is only the family of the victims of a crime who can call for revenge and a ruling must be decided by an established Islamic state court and not by any Imam who feels like passing off judgements especially when it regards matters effecting entire states or multiple nations.

However these terrorists see their Al-Qaeda Imams and so called "scholars" as representing ALL OF ISLAM and more and more they are becoming successful in convincing many moderate Muslims that indeed Al-Qaeda represents Islam.  So it may very well end up becoming a war against Islam if the perception that the West is in a war against Islam is not immedately stopped through intensive and sustained counter-propaganda.  

What the terrorist attack in London is likely to do is simply solidify UK support for the US led war on terror.  This may seem against what Al-Qaeda wants...but in reality it is not.  For Al-Qaeda this is part of the way to self-justify their cause.   By inciting Britain to launch more attacks against the Muslim world and create harsh laws against Muslims in England, they know they will cause greater support amongst moderate Muslims who are effected by the actions of the UK government.  Furthermore like fundamentalist Christians, they believe it brings them that much closer to Judgement Day.

It needs to GET THROUGH THE HEADS OF THE WEST that you CAN NOT WIN THIS WAR MILITARILY unless we are willing to exterminate and/or imprison billions of Muslims and Muslim supporters around the world.  

The West needs to attack the AL-Qaeda ideology at its root NOW before it becomes further ingrained into Islamic countries around the world.

At any rate, I will lastly add the NO I DO NOT SYMPATHIZE with these terrorists and what they did was absolutely horrific and evil.   My prayers go to all those who died and suffered injury in this crime.  

But unless we are willing to understand why these individuals do these horrible acts of terror, we can only expect bigger and bloodier attacks in the future.

Chris G.

aka-Miles Teg<GD>

[sniperuk02 0]

Quote[/b] ]I'd like to know how CNN knows there are people 12 dead when the BBC says there's still only 2 confirmed deaths.

ITV says there are at least 10 dead in king cross station and more around london. It also says there are at least 1500 met. officers in scotland atm

will I was typing this a new page had started

[Stag 0]

Fine, live in your bubbles, I'm not stupid. They are terror attacks by your enemy, now go deal with it.

Chao

i AM CANADIAN they are our Enemys too

Canadian Troops are in Afganistan or are you living in a bubble ?

Al Qaeda is not actually making plans to attack our soft targets you know. We are not in Iraq.

They are not my enemy, I respect their wish for whitep eople to get the heck out of the ME, and I am Canadain.

I don't support us being in Afghanistan either BTW. I think those who broke it should have been fixing it.

you are sad you must be our enemy to side with the no good terrorrsts and dictators when our troops are doing a fine job to do our part in the war on terror

no we are not in Iraq Afganistan take up all our troops and you shame our Candian troops that are giving the ultimate price they have not targeted us yet but who knows what the future holds...

now WAKE UP or are you a Enemy sympathizer

tough shit you don't support the free world why don't ya move to a place that represents your view you pussy mabe move to Iran you will like it there

nice one, someone may actually believe this incomprehensible shit you jsut wrote. Are you really a moron or being sarcastic?

They day you understand will probably be the day that a lot of your countrymen, possibly even some like-minded friends of yours are killed or injured; not because they agree or disagree with the war, but because they were just in the wrong place at the wrong time; A soft target.

You and I disagree; we will probably always disagree, until, God forbid, the above happens.

Until then, nothing I say wil change your mind, and nothing you say will change mine.

So why, for once, don't you shut up, you over-intellectual f u c k t a r d ?

[Placebo 29]

Are you really a moron or being sarcastic?

Flaming in this thread will get you banned very quickly.

You're an experienced forum member, if you cannot post in this thread without flaming/flame baiting then move along.

Edit: For the rest of you, this thread isn't for flaming/arguing, this thread isn't for arguing the merits or not of a nation's military strategy, there are other threads for that, such as the war on terror, this thread is for one thing only, discussing the events of this morning's terrorist attacks on London.

[Thunderbird 0]

The majority of people in afghanistan or in iraq don't like to see their soil under the control of an extra country ... instead of discussing or trying to find intelligent ways to fix these problems they prefer to use violence by killing innocent people...

Modern countries want to establish the democracy everywhere, but they must first be sure if these countries really want democracy, because to impose the democracy is also a form of dictatorship.. just watch what's currently happening in Iraq ...

[sim 0]

Quote[/b] ]They day you understand will probably be the day that a lot of your countrymen, possibly even some like-minded friends of yours are killed or injured.

Exactly if that was the case atm then I'm sure you would have a very different tone.

[billybob2002 0]

My sympathies to the people over there....

[IsthatyouJohnWayne 0]

Lets remain calm here. The people affected by these explosions and the emergency services seem to be maintaining a remarkable degree of calm so it would be crazy for people here to get more angry.

Apollo-

Quote[/b] ]I do not wish to minimize the grief from this terrorist attack ,but i only hope that this attack will not result in more security ,more conflict out of anger ,or fixation on the terrorist problem compared to other pressing problem's that the world is coping with.

I saw Tony Blair make his speech while being at the G8 with most world leaders around him in support ,however for world leaders like Bush or Putin this almost justifies them in their anti-terrorist agenda under whatever surcumstances.I hope the Bittish can find a sensible sollution for erradicating his threat for them ,hopefully a sollution that doesn't create more conflict than where it started.

I agree, i do not particularly like the grouping of diverse conflicts (and brutal actions by governments such as that of Russia) around the world into some global 'war on terror'.

So far the responses from the authorities in London seem quite reasonable and measured. Hopefully the people responsible for these acts will be caught and punished by the law. Im sure nowhere is going to get invaded over this, noone is yet even certain whos responsible, which puts bn880s posts in a slightly strange light.

Seeing as 'Al Quaida' had nothing to do with Iraq and from the British perspective at least invading Iraq was not directly part of fighting terrorism (except perhaps in a very wide and vague definition including state terror) i dont see how the way the British forces fought Iraqi forces is relevant at all (even assuming this is 'Al Quaida' ).

Hopefully the death toll will rise no higher.

[Tim Pink 0]

My Support and Condolences go out to all the families and loved ones who have lost or had someone injured in todays attacks.

It is truly a sad day when the innocent person living his/her normal day life can be targeted with such extreme predudice and all in the name of religion.

Miles Teg is right, Military action wont solve anything except to incite more attacks and the inevitable loss of more human life for no reason.

Everyone needs to unite, not through military action, but in defiance against these people trying to destroy our way of life, we need to send a clear message to the Terrorists saying no matter how hard you try, you will never take away what is ours by right, the right to live in peace, freedom and with a  choice to be and celebrate whatever religion, denomination or ethnic culture we want.

Once again, Support and Sympathy to all those affected by the Attacks.

Sincerely

Timothy Pink

[gandalf the white 0]

Been wondering, what would be those guy's next target? Personally I think it's either going to be germany, or a country in the benelux (IE netherlands or Belgium)

The netherlands is mostly laid dry with dykes, if they'd blow up a dike some nasty shit could happen to us...

netherlands, 1953 , let's hope that does not repeat itself again....

Btw, Why on earth are you guys bashing each other over each other's opinion? Personally I think things fucked up big when the war was declared over... instead of pumping recources into getting the iraqi's to rebuilt their own country, they just continued to patrol like everyday... yeh... "now what" ?

People who laugh at the death of (US?) soldiers because they don't agree with the political aspect also deserved to get punched in the face. they're soldiers, but humans before that. just like the opfor, they're sick animals, but when I see those people ranging from 14 till 22 lying on the ground, shot to bits, I still pity their families.

But hey! that's just my opinion .

[Munk 0]

Sky news says 45 dead, 1000+ injured

Why is Tony Blair going to London? He cant do anything more there than he could from the G8 summit but he could be doing a lot for 3rd world countries right now.

[RED 0]

Sky news reports that 45+ people have been killed and over 1000 injured:

http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30000-1188265,00.html

RED

[kegetys 2]

What does suprise me is that all these Al-Qaeda fuckers want to become marters. Don't these leaders want that too? Why don't they go and blow themselves up if they want to become saints in the eyes of future generations? Kinda makes me think  

Their goal is not to get themselves killed, but to get done what they believe is "right". Some people seem to think that these terrorists only do what they do because they want to kill people (this "ideology of hate"), but in fact they do have their own reasons for everything they do and what they do is carefully planned. They're not dumb, they know they need leaders and the leaders think they are fulfilling their task by leading the others, and they know that if they would die it would be bad for their agenda.

[Pathy 0]

Christ look at this:

Bn880, your entitled to your views but i cant figure for the life of me why you are trying to justify these attacks

[philcommando 0]

Thanks for your views Miles, glad to know a sane and intellectual man of the faith.

However, nothing we say now or do will ever bring back the dead of 911 till today. There are too many who sympathise with the terrorist; calling them freedom fighters, saints, soldiers, etc by both christians and muslims. At least until their loved ones are killed or injured in as 'collateral dammage'

Throughout Christian era, there is no phrase in the old or new testaments(Bible) that allows a man to kill another man, even for the almighty. Only the interpretations by fallable men allows that, resulting in the crusades as christians in the middle east were sacked and tortured. During the 15th century, the dreaded Inquisitions happened, again, at the instigations of fallable men.

But mankind had lived through the episode and realised it was evil. Inquisitions were stopped. Civilisation flourished till Hitler appeared. And we know what happened next, the world christians and other faiths joined hands and exterminated his kind and rehabilitate the remainder.

But throughout civilisation, the arabic faiths continued to declare non-believers as infidels and anyone of the faith has a right or a righteous duty to exterminate us - the rest of the world.

It was fortunate that the arabic civilisation advancement stopped at gun powder stage. Dare we imagine what will happen if some mad 'righteous' mullah or despot seeking glory with full justification from his almighty had access to nuclear weapons?

Cry all you want for the capture of Sadam and the destruction of his thugs by our leaders and brave boys in blue. As developers of ofp had said ' when you see the flash, it will be too late'.

[bn880 5]

Well I'm not, there is no real justice at play here at all in terms of the victims. I am just explaining the logical reasoning. It's one thing to be right about the reality of things, and another to pretend there is real justice to this, or to shells killing civilians in Iraq, be that Coalition's or insurgent's. Once you get into war, justice is out of the picture isn't it.

It was the catholic church which first introduced the idea of Just wars by the way, for the crusades.

[Balschoiw 0]

Well....

I just returned home from a funeral of a close friend and heared about the London bombings.

I guess it had to be expected, keeping in mind that the UK are playing on several warfields right now.

Sure, it´s civillian casualties. As it is in every country the wars go on.

I feel sorry for the people who got injured or killed but it´s in no way surprising that this would happen sooner or later.

The so called "war on terror" cannot be won until it is shifted away from military actions that often kill and injure civillians in numbers. A promising approach would be to research peoples needs and allow them to live the way they want to without pressing them into western schemes or pressuring them into anything at all.

Recruitment numbers for AQ are rising exponentially since Iraq war has been started. Iraq is the number 1 training ground for AQ according to CIA studies and Afghanistan is slipping into a dark ocean of rising Taleban and AQ again.

I guess only a serious approach to the people will cut grounds for AQ recruiters. Civillian casualties in those countries only fuel the fire even more. This is what people should have learned by now. Installations like Gitmo aren´t helpful either.

Just have a look at yourself. People in London get killed and you want to retaliate with extreme violence and gore.

I guess it´s just natural that people in Afghanistan or Iraq feel the same way, keeping in mind how many of them actually got killed there.

The term "war on terrorism" is an incrompehensive and false term as this "war" cannot be won with military personel.

Anyway, my condolences.

[Sandman214155 0]

you guys alright over there? just got up a few minutes ago and turned on the TV, kinda got ticket to see you were drug into the target.

I got a few team mates that live in the UK, but none are talking right now .

[meio_maluco 1]

I think they play flashpoint. If they play its on lan we cant track ips :S they maybe also making addons lolol. Its a good way to plan atacks.

Anyway what anti-terrorism needs its ops/spys/inteligent data processing pll/hackers also/mercenaries.

Basicly the earth needs to be scanned, but that its not possible with the few special units around, more cooperation its needed betewn governments.

Swiss hiden bank accounts should be prohibited, etc etc.

Lots of stuff needs to be done before terrorists can be attacked.

[Thunderbird 0]

Quote[/b] ]Their goal is not to get themselves killed, but to get done what they believe is "right". Some people seem to think that these terrorists only do what they do because they want to kill people (this "ideology of hate"), but in fact they do have their own reasons for everything they do and what they do is carefully planned. They're not dumb, they know they need leaders and the leaders think they are fulfilling their task by leading the others, and they know that if they would die it would be bad for their agenda.

I totally agree about this... each attack has a reason behind it...