WWIIEC : Caen 1944

[Duke 0]

"For absolute realism, what you should do is have an option to cock it and throw it through a window so it can skitter around on the floor firing uncontrollably on full automatic and clear out a room that way." -AKM

It's actually not completely realistic. If it was, more then just the british would have done it. Also, throwing the weapon could damage sights, knock them out of tune. And, or if they did use it, how would the weapon spin 360 degrees every time and kill any living targets?

[AKM 0]

It was a joke, referencing the Sten's (And on some occassions, the Stirling's) tendancy to fire unexpectedly, or for a locked-back action to snap forwards when the weapon was being handed off to the armourer for storage at base, so on so forth. Kinda like the PPSh-41, both weapons after extended use had a tendancy for certain parts to keep working even when they needed to stop working.

As to knocking the sights out of true on a Sten gun, well, it's a weapon designed to be made in a garage or basement or high school toolshop, remember? I don't think the sights are perfectly aligned or all that adjustable.

[Duke 0]

lol sights need to be adjusted reguardless the weapon.

Anyway, I realize it was a joke, but do you realize how many people would actually believe that and possbily try it if they were in the Armed Forces of any country with a random weapon?

[AKM 0]

Of course. Regardless of the weapon, the sights do need to be adjusted; or the shooter needs to adjust to the sights. I find I can do the latter within about five rounds, but that's not the point. And regardless of the *need* to adjust the sights, the *ability* to adjust the sights may not be there.

And as to the idiots who'd actually lock their weapon's bolt back and then throw it through a window into a room expecting it to skitter around firing on automatic and clear the room out, I like to think they wouldn't be able to join their national military, having failed the psych exam or any number of other things - like being able to spell their own name on most of the documents. Though with the way things are going in some nations, I wouldn't be surprised...

[Duke 0]

One never knows today.

[Fab. 0]

it's about time we posted some news...

As usual we've been busy behind the scene, mostly trying to finalize the weapons, small arms, mortars and other infantry equipment... so we're slowly getting there

Since i've been only working on lods, merging textures, and other optimizations, i havent go anything interesting to show...

But thankfuly that's not the case for everyone in the team. The following screenshots are BattlingBitch's work

click on the screens to enlarge

Gammon :

Hawkins mine :

MG34/42 crate :

Sm24 variant (with clustered head) :

Sm24 crate :

Panzerfaust 30 and crates :

[Fab. 0]

and the following was made by Guy :

PIAT :

PIAT ammo :

Mills grenade :

note the pin and handle are missing as this model is only used after the grenade was fired...

PS: sorry for double post but i've been screwed by the image limit before...

[thesun 14]

This is so cool. Fab, is there any chance we'll see Caen 44 in near future ?

[Fab. 0]

if you're talking about release date, like most free mod its hard to give one. All i can say is we've stopped developing new stuff a while back and are only focusing on finishing essentiual stuff for a first release (for OFP only - will port it to ArmA once the game has been patched a lot more and the official tools are out).

At the moment most of the team is busy finishing the basic infantry weapon pack / small arms for both germans and british/canadians. For a lot of these we had older models that needed to fit blueprints, used too many textures so they had to be merged and lods had to be reworked... Other weapons like what is shown above had to be made from scratch because we either didnt have any or the models were way outdated (like most weapons from the old brit pack). So this has all been a lot of work and there is still some to do... but this is fully worth it. once finished : Compared to weapons used in older releases, they have better facecount, better lods, better use of textures while looking a whole lot better. Without that, no infantry, so no release...

At the same time i'm working on finishing our animation engine code. The code needs to be finished so Sengir can test and complete his new animations... why new code ? Our goal is a full modification rather than a pack of addons + missions, and we were really annoyed at the way OFP is so restricted in terms of animations : you cant run crouched, you cant move around freely while holding the AT launcher, every time you need your handgun your weapons have to be put on your back (not fast enough in close combat), everytime you get on a ladder you go back to "rifle in back" when you get off etc.... etc...

So to allow the player to move just like he logically should, we have to create more anim states/stances. It fully works, no problem for the AI either but it needs a lot more code, and BIS anim code being not so well structured it makes it hard when you start adding a whole more stances like :AT launcher lying (cannot fire), AT launcher standing, enabling to draw the handgun with right hand while holding main weapon or AT in the left hand (but of course u cant fire ur main weapon ! its not double weapon like rambo, its just so you can quicly fire your pistol), etc... etc... also random anims when the AI is in idle mode (so they dont all look like clones - you've seen that before in sengir's screenshots)

At some point in the middle of last year i realised it was easier to declare a brand new cfgMoves using functions and a well structured code rather than keeping adding code to the existing BIS one... Thats for the code side of things, for the anims side, Sengir has been doing a huge amount over the past year and a half and most of it is done or can be recycled to complete the last groups of anims to be added.

Just to give you an idea: Resisance had about 10 main stances, while we have around 22 and around 2 to 3x more anims. Huge amount of work there but then again, its gonna bring the game to a whole new level of gameplay. and since we started long ago we're much closer to the end of the tunnel.

Next step when the team is done sorting out the weapons will be to polish up a basic pack of vehicles for the first release. we got plenty to choose from but most of them needs minor work like some paint work here and there, sometimes lods and a lot more texture merging for performances. We will keep the armour out of the first release and leave it for light infantry + soft vehicles only, so that will give time to polish up the armoured vehicles and armour code for the 2nd release shortly after...

In the meantime i'll have to polish up the vegetation pack into its final version... There isnt any big work left in there but still a lot of small jobs here and there quickly add up to something bigger.

Same goes for infantry. they need some work here and there to be releasable... mainly adding more equipment (i havent done all the pouches for the german infantry, and need to finish off the basic british equipment)... also wound textures need to be done and a couple of extra headgear wouldnt hurt.

On top of that we need to finish off some AI script, a small 32x32 island for the first release (we'll leave the completion of the full, bigger island for the 2nd release instead) and a small campaign.

So yeap, lots of work to do, mainly a ton of small jobs. we're getting there, but its still hard to have an idea of when... its not always going at the same speed, sometimes we have only a few people working and things are slow, sometimes everyone comes back to work and things really speed up.

Personally i would like to see a first release around Q4 2007, this would be a good timing in terms of work left to be done and also the arma tools being there so we can safely start porting the mod to arma after that first release, assuming arma will be a lot more "mature" one year after its release.

Some might say OFP will be completely abandoned by then, but even if the graphics are outdated, it still looks so far from OFP with all that vegetation and anims and improved gameplay that it will still be worth the download, and all that work we do now for OFP will be re-used for ArmA anyway... so no matter the release date we're not wasting our time here...

oh and as usual we can always use some help from serious/talented addon makers who are good team players. Like any other mod in its advanced stages we need people who can map, texture and make good lods (to help complete existing models), or can make an addon from A to Z, rather than people who only create new models and cannot texture/map them (we've got very little need for that at this stage)

cheers

Fab

[MehMan 0]

I like what you're saying, a nice polished mod that will feel more like a new game than a mod.

[thesun 14]

Thanks for the info, alot of reading though. Well I'm quite bussy at the time (3 exams ). But since I have kinda experience in making vehicles and their texturing i might be able to help you if you would like to. With the amount of time i have now I guess that something along the way of finishing and optimalizing would be all that i can offer though.

[Fab. 0]

With the amount of time i have now I guess that something along the way of finishing and optimalizing would be all that i can offer though.

No worries, small, quality work here and there is better than no progress at all, plus i've heard/seen some of your work through jagy and its always been looking good

[edit]

@AKM: sorry i forgot to reply to your comments. When the time comes to go back to work on the infantry i'll make sure to post screenshots of canadians and british units, i got pretty good references for both but will be interested in your feedback to make sure i get them right... At the moment i'm not entirely sure if canadians will be part of the first or 2nd release, the main issue right now is i would have to make a mkIII helmet while i only made a mkII for the british so far. From what i read, they were both used in both countries, but it seems the vast majority of canadians on the field wore mkIII helmets, while a good majority of british soldeir had a mkII instead (i got a huge collections of photos from the Caen sector which seem to confirm that article i read). I dont think we will script any of the well famous sten gun shortcomings for now, but we might look into a jam script later on

[thesun 14]

I'm glad you liked them. It's settled then.

[AKM 0]

Fab:

Heh, I was just joking about the STEN shortcomings, but I appreciate your quick feedback. I was too busy ogling the screenshots to realize you hadn't actually replied to what I said earlier.  

If you do implement a stoppage script, it would be most at home on the Sten SMG, yes. The MP-40 was fairly reliable provided you didn't hold the magazine low, thus stressing it on its feeding process, and I've seen screenshots of captured MP-40s being used in just such a manner by Commonwealth troops; but determining if it's a Canadian or a Brit or a Pole or a Free Frenchman holding a MP-40 incorrectly and thus increasing the chance of a stoppage for that particular weapon, is a bit daunting (Freaking cool, but...) and really doesn't add that much to gameplay. As a matter of fact, all Infantry weapons of this period were pretty reliable; I hear very few mentions of an MG-34 or MG-42 stopping for any reason other than: "We are out of ammunition," "All of our targets are dead," or "The barrel has melted," and it goes without saying that BREN, quite simply, is the God of all automatic rifle design and should be worshipped on a daily basis. But that's just me.

Summa Summarum with regards to weapon malfunctions and the like; not nessecary but would be cool to see if you put it into a small update that would come later, perhaps.

I've seen a lot of the Mk. II helmets on Canadian troops, especially in the Italian theatre, where they were nearly always (Literally 95% of the time or so) scrimmed with net and possibly burlap/hessian and natural foliage; quite often we also see that characteristic "deformation" of the helmet which was infact an additional Individual Field Aid Kit / field dressing tucked under the helmet netting for quick access.

Pretty sure you've seen this image before, depicting a Bren Gun team with Mark III type helmets, suitably scrimmed. I will check my Zuehlke books on Juno Beach and Defence of the Juno Beachhead ("Drive on Caen") momentarily and flip through the images there to see what was most common; it might have images you haven't seen, not that I'm seriously contesting your claims. You've done more research than I on this sector. But, all the same.

It would appear that the Royal Winnipeg Rifles were predominantly equipped with the Mark III helmet, as was the majority of the Third Canadian Infantry Division - one image of a LCT loaded with CDN troops indicates that 75% had netted helmets, around 45% of that three quarters had scrim and net, and the remainder had un-netted, un-scrimmed helmets, simple paint only.

Le Regiment de la Chaudiere appears to be equipped with a nearly fifty-fifty mix of II and III, and Major Fulton (Royal Winnipeg Rifles, Commander D-COY, awarded DSO for actions on June 6 1944) wears a scrimmed and netted Mark III.

Highland Light Infantry appears to favour their tamoshanter or glengarries over helmets in some images, but all seem to have the Mark III type helmets. Canadian Tankers also appear to be issued the Mark Three, and yes, it would appear that every single man I can ID as a Canadian is wearing the Mark III type helmet. Most appear to have the darker version of the Commonwealth battledress uniform (eventually issued in a kind of green, wasn't it, rather than the desert-ish Khaki that had been used constantly before?) as well as the later-pattern webbing gear which was not designed to be blanco'd, etc, and was green, rather than tan. Definately helps with fieldcraft, that.

And it appears that the Canadian Parachute Brigade (and associated battalions, not sure exactly how the CDN Paras were set up organizationally) wears exactly the same kit as the British Paras, so that should make life easy. Every shot I've seen of Polish troops seems to indicate they equip themselves as the Brits do as well.

The "Holding Juno" book by Zuehlke indicates that the day after June 6, nearly every Canadian had a Mark Three with netting and scrim. Apparently everyone in Le Regiment de la Chaudiere wearing a Mark II was killed or got rid of it, since I only see Mark IIIs in photographs dated after the landings. And Regina Rifle troops all seem to have the Mark III with scrim, especially the "bush-heads" around this 3 inch mortar position from the Regina Rifles Support Coy. Canadian Scottish Regiment, once again, Mark IIIs, apparently - almost all netted and scrimmed as well.

There was an engagement in Bretteville that might make an interesting SP / MP Co-Op mission in which Canadian troops were attacked by a platoon or more of Panther tanks (Approx. 5 - 8), with hesitant Infantry support. Most drove around the position firing into the town with mainguns and machineguns, while two penetrated the village and lit up a few buildings at close range; one was confirmed disabled by a PIAT launch and the crew STEN-gunned as they bailed out, being in the heart of the Canadian position and all.

Fort Garry Horse Tank Regiment was equipped predominantly with Shermans, as a side-note, with a seemingly large contingent of Firefly Shermans with the long barrel 17pdr QRF gun; many vehicles attached to Canadian units seem to be Cromwells or even Churchills. Seeing a large number of Canadian Fireflies but I can't ID the Division or Regiment they're from, more's the pity. And it's occurred to me now I'm probably volunteering more detail than is needed. Whoops.

A question now, regarding indirect fire and fire support; will there be an organic artillery system for Caen '44? I know of your 3" and 2" (Possibly the two inch, not sure) mortars, which I assume will have a proper ballistic trajectory a'la FDFmod, but will it be possible to set up a system not unlike the CoC Unified Artillery to get some fire support, or will it all rely on human intervention?

Also, and to end this rather long post; you mentioned a vehicles pack to be released with Caen '44, including some SPA guns in there as well, or just MBTs, light vehicles, and other AFVs, since you mentioned it was to include "everything from the King Tiger to the Jeep," if I recall correctly?

[Fab. 0]

thanks for the useful info.

I did a lot of research indeed while working on the mod, but its always interesting to get a second opinion on the matter.

For now i dont plan to make more than two basic model of commonwealth infantry. Some stuff like the helmet scrims, net etc.. can (and are already) set as random selections, all i have to do is set the ratios for each type and since you've done the leg work there i might as well use the ratios you have.

The main issue with uniform colours and helmet shapes is they cant really be made random. if the uniform was to use setobjecttexture ingame, the wound textures wouldnt work, and the shadow wouldnt cast either. So basically while keeping some minor elements random, the rest has to remain the same within the same model while trying to represent the majority of the troops.

That's why for now the plan is to stick with one main model for brits (brown battledress with mkII), and one for the canadians with mk III helmets, my main issue here is do i make the canadian brown or green... i still havent figured out which was most common. it cant be seen in black and white photos and i dont really trust coloured plates made from black and white photos after the war (they could have easily get the wrong colour). If its about 50-50 i could easilly have two models of canadians, one green and the other brown but i wouldnt make more than that for now

regarding the vehicles :

For the first release we will stick with soft vehicles, for the following reasons :

1. armored vehicles need crew that i havent started yet

2. they also need my new armour system to be implemented which is a lot of work.

so basically we prefer to leave the armour for a 2nd release just so the first release can come out a few month early

Here's a quick list of vehicles we have, most of them not fully finished, so we will give a higher priority to whatever is most useful and most finished, leaving the rest for later releases :

Commonwealth :

- BSA M20 motorbike (vibes)

- Jeep (me)

- bedford QL (me)

- bedford OY (me and farside)

- daimler scout car (by vibes and hugotheclown, repainted to green)

- bren carrier (T_Roc)

- US halftracks (in british use, by T_roc)

- shermans (inc. firefly by T_roc)

- cromwell (brand new one by me)

- churchill (T_roc)

- poslten 20mm AA gun (motho38)

- 2 and 3inch mortars (Guy)

- .303 vickers (Guy)

german side :

- BMW motorcycles (by lib41-45 mod, repainted to late war camo)

- Kubelwagen (by i44 mod, reworked and repainted)

- opel blitz 3600 pack (by lib41-45 mod, repainted to late war camo)

- opel blitz 6700a (4x4 variant, by me)

- krupp protze (vibes' old krupp, reworked and late war camo)

- my old panthers repainted

- 20mm flak38 + trailer (by me)

- pak40 (donated by BG42 mod, reworked)

- pak36 (vibes repainted to late war)

- 5cm mortar (by jagy)

and the following by T_roc (when does he sleep i dont know...) :

- late war panzer IIIs

- late war panzer IVs

- Tiger I and IIs

- late war stug IIIs

- sdkfz 251 (several)

- 88mm flak36

- 20mm flakvierling (quad gun)

and i'm probably forgetting a few... there's also a few things we will borrow from other mods at some stage (well all with permission as usual)

Main problem here is the shortage of proper SPGs (well apart from the stugs).

so like i said first release will include mostly soft vehicles and maybe a few static guns, im thinking about one car, motorbike and a truck on each side for a starter...

As for artillery, a system a la CoC has always been the plan, although its still in its early stages so i'm thinking it'll probably be for after the first release...

cheers

Fab

[gavinthecat 0]

Well we've had our differences before FAB thats for sure, but wow your really still going at it! At the ol' project!

Well keep up the good work and I really look forward to ur teams release!

In the end my favs are always the PZ IIIs and IVs

[AKM 0]

Sounds lovely, you've grasped the essence of a proper OFP release; you need Infantry and something to transport them in. Armour, given how much of it is floating around out there, is truly a secondary consideration. It would seem that the RCA used primarily the "Priest" SPG in terms of self propelled guns, not a clue what they used as a towed gun.

Fifty-fifty Brown/Green sounds like your best bet, in all honesty. Most of the kit I see is brown, but they're also wearing the Mark II. Some of the stuff I've seen first hand, is green, with the Mark III, but I've seen precious little of that. You're right when it comes to not trusting colour plates - I'd say that for the sake of gameplay, and because I know at least myself and a half-dozen others who'll be making missions for this after the release, the two sets of Commonwealth troops is probably a good idea. I cannot say with absolute certainty, but I'm fairly certain that the uniforms were not mixed and matched with regards to colouration; green jacket and brown trousers, for example. However, I do see a lot of Commonwealth troops in their shirt-sleeves, even in battle order, so sans jacket, in short. Makes sense in Italy, since it's damned warm there, but I don't know how common that practice was in Europe.

Sounds like you've got everything well in hand. Looking forward to seeing it in action.

[Fab. 0]

Makes sense in Italy, since it's damned warm there, but I don't know how common that practice was in Europe.

Damn i completely forgot about them lately

i got the same impression from my collection of photos. The only guys i've seen in shirts in normandy were a trio of AA gun crew, and i think some other AT gun crew too.

In the end I wont do the short sleave for the first release, but will definitly do one for later. i already have the short sleaves forarms + lods i made for the germans, i got colars and everything... so it wont be much work to implement when i have more time to spend on lesser priority models like these. They add some nice diversity plus they can be used for italy user-made missions

cheers

Fab

[Red Devil 0]

Keep it simple!

Quote[/b] ]British battledress was made of a brownish wool serge and was closely cut in order to save on material. Canadian battledress was greener than the British and was cut fuller in the waist and shoulders.

and the colour confussion...

Quote[/b] ]A relatively small number of suits of British battledress were issued to Canadian troops early in the Italian campaign. The material is coarser and a more brown colour than Canadian battledress. The colour, exposed buttons and lack of pleats on the pockets are the major distinguishing factors.

now of course that is simply 1 site quoting a book, but it ties up the confussion and provides a clean cut solution.

British = Brown

Canadians = Green

http://www.mpmuseum.org/provostbd.html

too easy! back to them iron sights.

[AKM 0]

Well done, Red Devil! Except I think most Canadians in Italy wore khaki / brown, instead of the greener uniform. I can say that fairly confidently because of what I've read, in which the khaki uniforms seem prevelant.

However! To my knowledge, no Canadian units in Italy were transferred to the Western Front prior (If at all throughout the war) to June 6, 1944, thus they would have completely missed D-Day and any fight around Caen. So as Red Devil said, "Green Canucks, Brown Brits." I've seen some of this in museums, the thing that struck me is that it's not an OD green, but it is definately more green than the British battledress. I'm sure you'll get the colouration right - it should be rather effective in Flashpoint, methinks, on most islands.

Another thing that was on my mind besides shirtsleeves, were the leather assault jerkins. I know these were worn when it was raining, sometimes, and they seem to be a popular item of kit in Holland, but I don't know about D-Day and D-Day + 20 and all, because I don't see many of them in use until the Canadian and British units actually get to Northern Europe / Holland and all that.

[Fab. 0]

From my references it seems the jerkin was well used in normandy, but from the photos it seems barely more common than the soldiers without jackets... the summer being quite hot in france, i bet it got more rare from july onward... it might even have been dropped shortly after d-day (but i'm speculating here) . I will definitly make one at some point but its unlikely you would see it in the first release since i havent started any.

i could stick with two models (one green, one brown), and have two helmets (mkII and mkIII) in both models, and set as random so the green canadians could have a majority of mkIII and some mkII while the brown british could have a majority of mkII and some mkIII...

brown model would be presented as british in the editor, green as canadian, but using a commandline you could switch them to different nations by changing the armpatches etc... and also force a particular type of helmet. the models are already setup for that so it wouldnt be too much trouble (well apart from doing a mkIII helmet)

So in my list of priorities on the commonwealth infantry :

1. finish the basic equipment (modeled it, started to map but not finished)

2. make a mkIII helmet

3. repaint in green for canadian model

4. sort out crew equipment and headgear

5. jerkin

6. short sleaves

first release between anywhere between 1 and 3...

thanks for the info,

Fab

[CanadianTerror 0]

Quote[/b] ]3. repaint in green for canadian model

Im keeping my OFP installed just for this mod.

[CsonkaPityu 0]

I just wanna ask a thing about your new anims: is it possible in OFP to make an extra stance for when someone is looking through the ironsights?

Like in RO:O.

[Deathstruck 375]

Mods like LIB41 have different configs, but they are disabling some addons so you cant play with them.Will be something like this in your MOD?

I hope not.

BTW:Sry for my crappy english

[Fab. 0]

Quote[/b] ]I just wanna ask a thing about your new anims: is it possible in OFP to make an extra stance for when someone is looking through the ironsights?

well its is technically possible now, but would still be very difficult to implement :

1. you would need one new anim for each weapon for each stance as the iron sights have different positions in each weapons

2. your weapons's iron sights (on the model) would need to be perfectly accurate and detailed

3. you would need to use fwatch so everytime the iron sight key is pressed, the right anim for the right weapon is played - thats technically possible with the new code...

So that would be a whole lot of work for just some graphic improvement when you aim, and its not even guaranteed to work properly every time... not worth it for us

<table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td>Code Sample </td></tr><tr><td id="CODE">Mods like LIB41 have different configs, but they are disabling some addons so you cant play with them.Will be something like this in your MOD?

We're not using the same structure as lib mod. our addons configs are separate from BIS config, the only thing we have modified in BIS config so far is the binocular models (since there's no way around it) and the anim config.

This way you'll be able to add any existing unit that has its own config, and it will automatically use our system of anims, as demonstrated in this (old) news : http://ofp.gamepark.cz/index.php?showthis=8579

although we strongly recommand u use any of these units with our weapons for them to be balanced and recognized by our effect scripts.

Soft vehicles or planes (for cinematic only) should work quite well, while armour will be totally incompatible with ours and should be used for cinematics only (no combat possible between our armor and someone else's).