European Politics Thread.

[mistyronin 1181]

The best and better documented in-sight I read on the subject:

( Bloomberg ) First Scotland, Now Spain

[mistyronin 1181]

I guess Putin is evaluating "protecting" Russian citizens from the "evil" Finns ( that would explain the latest invasions of Finland's airspace by Russian fighters and bombers ).

( Yle ) Russia calls on nationals to report dual citizenship

The Kremlin has called on all Russians with dual citizenship to register their status with Russian authorities. Some Russian nationals resident in Finland say they’re uncertain about who should comply with the reporting requirement. Currently more than 21,000 Russians living in Finland are also holders of Finnish passports.

[vilas 477]

not only this, Russian minister of culture, starts initiative to build monument of Bolshevik/Soviet soldiers who died invading Poland in 1919-1921 Polish-Bolshevik war,

they want to set monument to invaders who invaded other country and they demand from Poland to set this monument in ... Poland,

[Tonci87 163]

not only this, Russian minister of culture, starts initiative to build monument of Bolshevik/Soviet soldiers who died invading Poland in 1919-1921 Polish-Bolshevik war,

they want to set monument to invaders who invaded other country and they demand from Poland to set this monument in ... Poland,

Well there is a Memorial for the 6th Army of the Wehrmacht near Volgograd, so that is not as crazy as it sounds....

The monument was errected in 1996 and was supposed to be in the town centre, after protests from war veterans and the population it was agreed to place it 20km outside the city. I have no idea if it is still there.

[mistyronin 1181]

Funny words coming from the person that is idolized by those same neo-nazi parties.

It's like if Stalin complained about the rise of communist parties...

( RIA Novosti ) Putin: Europe Losing Fight Against Nazism

( New Republic ) Putin Has Far-Right Admirers All Over Europe, and They're Up for Election This Month

( Business Insider ) Europe's Far Right Is Embracing Putin

( World Affairs Journal ) Strange Bedfellows: Putin and Europe’s Far Right

Edited October 15, 2014 by MistyRonin

[negah 26]

To continue the discussion started in the Russia General thread whether the german AfD party is a nazi one or not.

The Link you have provided has an interesting choice of words. Moreover it is quoting mostly itself and when it comes to other sources, there are mostly speculations. Not a single link proving anything.

IIRC you have mentioned that youre at a Univercity, so you should know the value of a work judging by its citations.

Last time I linked a similiar website here, it was described as a conspiracy theorists portal.

About the immigrant politic of the AfD: they want to make sure that the immigrants are willing to integrate and are not just after the social payments. Totally nazi.

Calling it racism when talking about religions is kind of incompetent regarding their choise of words. They (AfD) dont seem to want to persecute Islam, it would be illegal anyway.

Willing to protect its own culture against the influences of another culture is different and natural, but seems to be nazi as well.

We should start to support those salafists guys and convert to islam, even those who are atheists (like me)?

As for homophobie, thats what you call a conservative party.

Regarding racism, should that guy really have made such claims, then he should be punished according to law. But as of now nothing is proven and it smells like a try to discredit the whole party.

Wanting more control for immigration does not equal racism (yet again choice of words).

That "Anti-Haltung" part is just stupid. Of course they would be against some other parties, its their politics. Otherwise they could call themselves FDP 2.0.

One example: being against tolerance is also debatable, since tolerance is all good and fine until it starts to look like that we have to love and admire some things most of us dont naturally like (e.g. homosexuality) and dont you dare to say something against it.

Piles of dirt are waiting to be dropped upon you in the media if you do it.

The only thesis I support without hesitation in that link is that AfD is talking about problems and not about solutions, but then what party doesn't.

Oh I forgot, the CDU is actually telling us "Everything is OK, we wont change anything", and thats how Merkel was elected for the third time.

It seems to be a task of the opposition parties to talk about problems while the ruling parties deny that problems, doesnt matter which party rules atm.

That said believe it or not I never was a supporter of the AfD. I rather vote for the SPD since their politics does appeal me a bit more and they actually have a chance of winning.

Edited November 30, 2014 by negah

[vilas 477]

i think anyone who works hard for his life do not want his taxes wasted for those who come to commit crimes, abuse social support benefits system, and demand extra super rights and ban our lifestyle - it is not nazi, it is normal

i work hard, i do not want my taxes to be wasted, i am strongly against system in which I must work hard to buy flat (30 years bank loan, credit for whole life) and someone just comes (without paying any taxes) and gets flat,

it is about tax money, but if someone want abuse your tax money, he threats to call you nazi if you defend your taxes, the more hard i work , the more i see value of money and work, which i had no idea being young naive thinking money go from sky, hard work make me conservatist

if someone come to your house to make problems - you evict him - this is not nazi, this is normal,

if someone would come to my home, break me furniture, told to repaint walls, spit on my carpet - i would use all force to evict him,

if someone doesn't obey rules of host - he is not welcome - it is normal, would you allow guest to come to your home and repaint wall, destroy furniture and throw away your DVD with favorite movies ?

nazi is to kill some groups for being born under given nation or religion (Jews killed in WW2 because they were born as Jews, now rules that Islamists set in their caliphate and murders of Christians there, things made by Islamists in Africa, Islamists behave like nazis and commit genocides there , Boko Haram group who make murders of Christians in Africa), stopping murder is not nazi, stopping murder is serving peace,

but in EU politicial correctness gone to far long time ago and it will end badly in ca. 2030 or earlier,

political correctness killed one basic European value - equality - one can do, what you cant, they can burn your holy book, you get imprison to burn their book , it is not equality, it is not fair if one man can do things for which i will go to prison

Edited November 30, 2014 by vilas

[Tonci87 163]

To continue the discussion started in the Russia General thread whether the german AfD party is a nazi one or not.

The Link you have provided has an interesting choice of words. Moreover it is quoting mostly itself and when it comes to other sources, there are mostly speculations. Not a single link proving anything.

IIRC you have mentioned that youre at a Univercity, so you should know the value of a work judging by its citations.

Last time I linked a similiar website here, it was described as a conspiracy theorists portal.

About the immigrant politic of the AfD: they want to make sure that the immigrants are willing to integrate and are not just after the social payments. Totally nazi.

Calling it racism when talking about religions is kind of incompetent regarding their choise of words. They (AfD) dont seem to want to persecute Islam, it would be illegal anyway.

Willing to protect its own culture against the influences of another culture is different and natural, but seems to be nazi as well.

We should start to support those salafists guys and convert to islam, even those who are atheists (like me)?

As for homophobie, thats what you call a conservative party.

Regarding racism, should that guy really have made such claims, then he should be punished according to law. But as of now nothing is proven and it smells like a try to discredit the whole party.

Wanting more control for immigration does not equal racism (yet again choice of words).

That "Anti-Haltung" part is just stupid. Of course they would be against some other parties, its their politics. Otherwise they could call themselves FDP 2.0.

One example: being against tolerance is also debatable, since tolerance is all good and fine until it starts to look like that we have to love and admire some things most of us dont naturally like (e.g. homosexuality) and dont you dare to say something against it.

Piles of dirt are waiting to be dropped upon you in the media if you do it.

The only thesis I support without hesitation in that link is that AfD is talking about problems and not about solutions, but then what party doesn't.

Oh I forgot, the CDU is actually telling us "Everything is OK, we wont change anything", and thats how Merkel was elected for the third time.

It seems to be a task of the opposition parties to talk about problems while the ruling parties deny that problems, doesnt matter which party rules atm.

That said believe it or not I never was a supporter of the AfD. I rather vote for the SPD since their politics does appeal me a bit more and they actually have a chance of winning.

And I never was a supporter of the CDU, I think they (and especially Merkel) are the worst thing that politically happened to this country since Schröder. And don´t even get me started on the CDU. The SPD is an OK party in theory but everytime they came into power they showed that they are not different than the CDU. The Leaders are just too close to the big Business. Same thing now with the Green Party. What is left? The Leftist party? No way, too many members who have way too fond memories of GDR communism because of nostalgia or they benefited from it. Sadly currently all German parties are more or less crap....

[negah 26]

And I never was a supporter of the CDU, I think they (and especially Merkel) are the worst thing that politically happened to this country since Schröder. And don´t even get me started on the CDU. The SPD is an OK party in theory but everytime they came into power they showed that they are not different than the CDU. The Leaders are just too close to the big Business. Same thing now with the Green Party. What is left? The Leftist party? No way, too many members who have way too fond memories of GDR communism because of nostalgia or they benefited from it. Sadly currently all German parties are more or less crap....

Sad but true.

[ProfTournesol 956]

Sad but true.

If my country had half a good leader as Merkel or Schröder, i would be extremely happy. But it seems that we're condemned to have sub par leaders, from right or left. I suppose we have the leaders we deserve...

[kavoven 4]

Sad but true.

Absolutely not true. I am very glad that we have Merkel as current person in charge.

And I never was a supporter of the CDU, I think they (and especially Merkel) are the worst thing that politically happened to this country since Schröder. And don´t even get me started on the CDU. The SPD is an OK party in theory but everytime they came into power they showed that they are not different than the CDU. The Leaders are just too close to the big Business.

Typical thing to say for someone who is always complaining without recognizing the circumstances. If todays politics were ease, everyone could do it. Best example is the current prime minister of Baden Würtemberg, who represents the greens but suddenly also has to make decisions that have nothing to do with the general direction the party wants politics to do.

You should watch Steinmeiers "Wutrede" ... Luckily, people like you represent a minority in our country.

[negah 26]

Unluckily the majority represents an idle mass who are happy with the "no changes" politic of Merkel as long as there is enough Beer and the TV is working, though a huge part of that majority isnt even voting at all I guess.

[Tonci87 163]

Absolutely not true. I am very glad that we have Merkel as current person in charge.

Typical thing to say for someone who is always complaining without recognizing the circumstances. If todays politics were ease, everyone could do it. Best example is the current prime minister of Baden Würtemberg, who represents the greens but suddenly also has to make decisions that have nothing to do with the general direction the party wants politics to do.

You should watch Steinmeiers "Wutrede" ... Luckily, people like you represent a minority in our country.

You know that we are talking about a woman who can´t find Berlin on a Map? (Yes this indeed happened, she pointed to Moscow when she tried to point out where Berlin is.) So Yes politics seem to be incredibly easy if such people can do it.

Most politicians don´t get into high positions because of skill, or achievements. They get into high positions because of favours and contacts. So many politicians are simply incredibly stupid and unfit for the job they do....

Here watch this

(German)

It is an hour long but it will explain many of the things progressively going wrong in this country.

[mistyronin 1181]

You know that we are talking about a woman who can´t find Berlin on a Map?

Of course Merkel knows where is Berlin on a map, how could you even dare to say something like that :P

[Heeeere's johnny! 51]

Most politicians don´t get into high positions because of skill, or achievements. They get into high positions because of favours and contacts. So many politicians are simply incredibly stupid and unfit for the job they do....

I freaking love Volker Pispers! :D

Regardless of Merkel's incapability of finding Berlin on a european map, she seems to be clever enough to get every potential rival out of her way.

But I totally agree, to be successful in politics, you need to follow the party line (top priority rule) and build up connections with influencial people, preferably lobbyists so they sponsor your campaign and finally your party. You have to be callous and ruthless, meaning you must not have a conscience.

And you don't need to have any particular skill. Otherwise such things as switching from interior ministry to financial ministry or from family ministry to war defense ministry wouldn't be reasonable. (Well, it's not reasonable anyway...)

Btw, did you know that in Germany, anybody can be part of the government? You don't need to be an elected member of the parlament or anything else than chosen by the chancellor.

[vilas 477]

Most politicians don´t get into high positions because of skill, or achievements. They get into high positions because of favours and contacts.

1000% truth , most of politician begin carreer as young activists , then they get to civil administration as clerks after local elections (municipal elections)

majority of them NEVER worked in any company, never were boss reponsible for personell etc.

majority of them if loose position are useless for any job in any company,

in few countries like USA politicians are guys who first were succesfull in business than they started politics

in majority of countries you can have .... 25 years old member of parliament, guy who was young activist, never worked anywhere, went to party , studied "philosophy" and was voted and ... decides how to spend our taxes and that we must work harder

[x3kj 1247]

They dont need to know anything (its even better if they dont have a clue). Because then their advisors (lobbyists) can put their ideas into the clueless politicians ears. And because it was never the idea of the politician he can always defend himself saying "i consulted the experts". I would go as far and say democraty like we see it now is a failed democraty. The people hold very little power, they have not a single word in all the politics.

You can vote on some random dude in the hope he does what you want/ does what he promised and after that you are basically powerless and have to swallow everything they send your way.

They are even trying to reduce the power of the EU/German Justice apparatus, because recently they blocked alot of lawdrafts as unlawfull.

In would call it democrazy. It works ok on a local scale (for towns/ town areas). But on a national scale? It's like Socialism/Communism. The idea is not so bad. It just doesnt work properly. Unlimited Capitalism works, but is highly destructive and i think we are beyond recovery, because its spinning out of controll. Money=Power=Rulership. We are drifting into a new feudal age.

Edited December 1, 2014 by Fennek

[batto 17]

You know that we are talking about a woman who can´t find Berlin on a Map? (Yes this indeed happened, she pointed to Moscow when she tried to point out where Berlin is.)

It looked like a funny joke to me. Even if not, so what? She can always go to library and look it up in atlas if necessary (or use Google) ;-). Our president use vulgar words and I don't give a flying fudge. Media always make sensation out of such uninteresting things. She looks like fine lady to me.

[Tonci87 163]

It looked like a funny joke to me. Even if not, so what? She can always go to library and look it up in atlas if necessary (or use Google) ;-). Our president use vulgar words and I don't give a flying fudge. Media always make sensation out of such uninteresting things. She looks like fine lady to me.

She is a stupid empty shell. This woman has no direction or clear agenda, she changes her opinions as it pleases her, if she even has one. She is called Teflon Merkel for a reason.

[batto 17]

She is a stupid empty shell. This woman has no direction or clear agenda, she changes her opinions as it pleases her, if she even has one. She is called Teflon Merkel for a reason.

Now that's a valid argument.

http://electrospaces.blogspot.de/2014/10/the-german-operation-eikonal-as-part-of.html

[vilas 477]

http://wiadomosci.wp.pl/kat,1329,title,Sedzia-potracil-rowerzyste-i-odjechal-Sad-nie-chce-zajac-sie-sprawa,wid,17077504,wiadomosc.html

judge hit man with car and escaped from place of accident - which is crime here (noone tested if judge was sober or not as well)

not helping victim of accident is crime, at least in my country too

noone of courts in this Poland want to take investigation for 2 years and cases are on and on dismissed cause judge is above law, he can drove over people thats why we need gun law like USA has

[krzychuzokecia 719]

why we need gun law like USA has

Sorry but I had to disagree ;) And I'm an active sport shooter, hoping to get my permit in following years!

noone of courts in this Poland want to take investigation for 2 years and cases are on and on dismissed cause judge is above law

Problem doesn't lie in law but rather people - see it's not fault of law that Mr Judge wasn't judged by his judge friends - according to law he should now rot in jail.

Poland is overwhelmed by various coteries/cliques (mafias?) of different origin. In the case of judges, attorneys and police these "groups" usually have strong roots from the time of communist occupation. They were allowed to live through new times of "free" and "independent" Poland, because this new country is lead by "do what thou willt" liberal philosophy, which makes the state weak, and mafias stronger. The generation of "Solidarity" movement couldn't overcome that problem because it was weak themself, and actually lost the political battle in early 90s.

Unfortunately new younger generations still don't see that Polish problems lie not in "bad law" or "bad regime", and they adopt the same philosophy that allow cliques to rule this country. It's really a joke that for many young people the most influencing man is Janusz Mikke - politician who called himself a "right-wing liberal" (alluding rather to American tradition than to Polish), but who really was a communist, and professionally a sociologist who (in early 70s) worked on the methods of manipulating society. Today his programme is a really weird mixture of American liberalism, radical anarchism and royalism. This catches upon young and angry, but they fail to see that similiar ideas allowed mafias to take the wheel in country.

[vilas 477]

some wild west and "making order" would help us , people feel unrevenged , people who made a harm to society later are old and retired - whole life hurting others being rich, and rest is helpless - guns would solve problems, cause frustrated people would took revenge and officials would be scary to make wrong and illegal decision - cause only fear would make them work properly , as long as they feel safe - they spit on you and steal from you,

thats why America has voting for local sherif, judge, etc. why ? cause in america you had to respect others - cause others might shoot you

in our country guns were only for state and it's servants (high ranked mostly)

harsh politically not correct truth is that when you are nice - some people abuse you thinking you are just weak sucker

when you are strong and punch them - they start to listen your opinion and take it under consideration, cause they afraid of you,

untill they not afraid of you - they spit on you,

there is some percent of people like this, specially on high positions , whole Europe can do riots when they are not satisfied, while our nation is peaceful as noone else, we do not have riots like west - why ?

they are assertive - we are not assertive cause we feel weak

we must feel strenght not weakness, even if this would have some "colateral dammage" , otherwise we will just be slaves in next decades

when i ask people i know who is against gun law ? most of people who are against ... have gun - they are army officers, police officers, lawyers,

why ? they have power, they want you to be powerless cause you must obey them

as person who had burglary (in 2005) i know something about being helpless cause also "nothing happened"

in gun statistics - we are at blind end of Europe

in Germany, in France , Sweden you have 30 times more guns per capita

in UK 10 times more, in Switzerland, Finland probably 50 times more

PL, Romania, are one of most disarmed nations (others who are post-commie too)

i also try to get gun license - it can take year of exams, psychological tests etc. and as you know - only sport license, cause self defence license here is given to lawyers, policemen or rich businesmen or ex commies

we never removed commies after 1989, they simply changed suits from political power to economical and legal power, people who harmed our grandfathers in 50s, their grandsons are today's judges,

with Korwin Mikke you surprised me , i had no idea, cause i never studied his past

Edited December 3, 2014 by vilas

[Tonci87 163]

No Vilas, the rich and ruthless would only sourround themselves with thugs with even more guns, nothing is solved that way....

[vilas 477]

No Vilas, the rich and ruthless would only sourround themselves with thugs with even more guns, nothing is solved that way....

do you know that in Germany you have 30 times more guns than we have in Poland in civilian hands ?

you live in Germany, so do you have problems with those guns ? probably NO,

what is level of safety and transparency in public and level of corruption comparing to Poland ? do you have 6% of population emigration abroad ?

Edited December 3, 2014 by vilas