Theo van Gogh murdered

[Apollo 0]

Today ,the Dutch moviemaker The van Gogh was murdered by an 26 years old man from both Marrokan and Dutch nationality.

Theo van Gogh was a moviemaker who's recent film "submission" had as theme the misuse of the Koran by Muslim men to control and abuse their women.It had explicit symbolic footage as muslim women being mostly naked with scars of abuse and koran texts written on it.It spawned a lot of controversy among muslim enviroments in Dutch society.

This murder reminds many Dutch of the murder of Pim Fortuyn ,who just as van Gogh questioned the Dutch multicultural society.This murder is a clear assault on Dutch society and will have serious consequences on Dutch social and multicultural society.It will also have a clear effect on freedom on speech and freedom of oppinion on social life in the Netherlands.

As Dutch speaking Belgian i want to vouch my symphaty to my Fellow Dutch of the North in this time of mourning and great social conflict.

RIP Theo Van Gogh.  

[theavonlady 2]

This murder reminds many Dutch of the murder of Pim Fortuyn

I think van Gogh was in the midst of making an internet movie about Fortuyn.

[Apollo 0]

Quote[/b] ]I think van Gogh was in the midst of making an internet movie about Fortuyn.

Indeed Avon ,it was to be named 06-05 and ironicly would have accused the evolutions in Ducth society that would have led to the Murder on Pim Fortuyn and his oppinions.

In addition ,the female politica of immigration origin that has aided Van Gogh in making Submission (Ayaan Hirsi Ali) and who is one of the forefighters of muslim female emancipation in Dutch society has been threatened with her life to ,and one would wonder if now she should stop with fighting for muslim female rights.

As such one can understand why this is an attack on Dutch society and freedom of speech.

http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/wireStory?id=218066

[xawery 0]

The problem is that everyone automatically assumes that it must have been Muslims who have slain Van Gogh. In the meantime, the media seem to conveniently omit the fact that he has received various death threats from right-wing, neo-fascist groups. Theo van Gogh has fought verifociously for freedom of speech and has made many enemies as well as friends in the process.

Personally, I found him to be a competent film maker as well as a complete oaf.

[theavonlady 2]

The problem is that everyone automatically assumes that it must have been Muslims who have slain Van Gogh.

From reports I'm seeing on the Internet, the murderer was in traditional Islamic dress. Apparently he also tried to behead van Gogh (yes, reletaed to the painter) but it didn't go, so he just knifed him to death.

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]From reports I'm seeing on the Internet, the murderer was in traditional Islamic dress. Apparently he also tried to behead van Gogh (yes, reletaed to the painter) but it didn't go, so he just knifed him to death.

You forgot shot....

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20041102/D863NRS80.html

[xawery 0]

From reports I'm seeing on the Internet, the murderer was in traditional Islamic dress. Apparently he also tried to behead van Gogh (yes, reletaed to the painter) but it didn't go, so he just knifed him to death.

True, the assailant appears to be of Moroccan descent. This was not known at the time I wrote the post.

The reason why I expressed my concern about jumping to conclusions was that the exact same thing happened when Fortuyn was shot - everybody was certain it was a Muslim. Turns out it's a caucasian vegan from Wassenaar. Oops.

[Placebo 29]

True, the assailant appears to be of Moroccan descent. This was not known at the time I wrote the post.

Apollo said that in the original post.......

Quote[/b] ]The van Gogh was murdered by an 26 years old man from both Marrokan and Dutch nationality.

I didn't know his work but it's sad if he was murdered for making a stand against a well known and accepted wrong.

[svendejong 0]

Theo van Gogh was a Film maker.

I work in a postproducion company as a fx editor and have had the pleasure to work with this guy for almost a year.

He was a very smart outspoken and sometimes politically incorrect guy who spoke his mind and didnt scare away from insulting people who did and didnt deserve it.

I only know him in a professional way but i'm very sad and confused about his sudden demise.

My thoughts go out to his 12 year old son and his close friends

may he rest in peace.

[theavonlady 2]

The reason why I expressed my concern about jumping to conclusions was that the exact same thing happened when Fortuyn was shot - everybody was certain it was a Muslim. Turns out it's a caucasian vegan from Wassenaar. Oops.

Well, that would have been my second guess.

[svendejong 0]

At 19:30 there will be a 'Loud ' gathering at the damsquare in amsterdam to remember him.

Ill be there for sure.

[Gadger 0]

RIP Theo

[Ironsight 1]

Quote[/b] ]From reports I'm seeing on the Internet, the murderer was in traditional Islamic dress. Apparently he also tried to behead van Gogh (yes, reletaed to the painter) but it didn't go, so he just knifed him to death.

You forgot shot....

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20041102/D863NRS80.html

First he was shot by automatic gunfire and then he was stabbed with a knife with a note on it. Police hasn't told what was written on the note yet.

I also want to note that when the suspect was trying to escape he was shooting on police officers. One police car was full of bullet holes and one officer on a motorcycle was hit, but he wore a bullet-proof vest, thank god.

The police in Amsterdam also send more officers on the streets because they are afraid of riots.

Shame I live in a country where you can't express your opinion about other religions.

RIP Theo van Gogh

[Cpt. FrostBite 0]

Fuck my country for it's tolarance...

I say Marines and armoured vehicles on every streetcorner. But that's just my idea..

@Ironsight;

Automatic gunfire?? I guess you mean semi-automatic pistol fire? I haven't heard anything about an automatic rifle (like an AK).

RIP theo.

Although I didn't agree with some of his stuff, I defend the right that you can say whatever you want. We have lost a good Dutchman!!!

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]Fuck my country for it's tolarance...

Do not let your judgement be clouded with the Dark side. Does tolerance means diversity or something?

[Acecombat 0]

Quote[/b] ]and koran texts written on it.

On the skin? What the heck was that about? Is this all proven or just plain theory or sensantionilizing a abuse event?

Just curious sinc eive never heard of such an incident even here and thats europe

[Ironsight 1]

@Ironsight;

Automatic gunfire?? I guess you mean semi-automatic pistol fire? I haven't heard anything about an automatic rifle (like an AK).

Around 30 bullets were fired, when a journalist asked the police what kind of gun was used that said it was automatic.

That is the latest news I heard.

[Ironsight 1]

Quote[/b] ]and koran texts written on it.

On the skin? What the heck was that about? Is this all proven or just plain theory or sensantionilizing a abuse event?

Just curious sinc eive never heard of such an incident even here and thats europe

The movie was about Islamic women in the whole world. Haven't seen it myself but Ayaan Hirshi Ali (the politician from Somalia) made it together with him so I guess it is about Somalian women.

[Kaitnieks 0]

I'm a dutch man my self, and when I heard this sad event pure hate against the killer came up me, it was a feeling that felt new it felt like harming the killer (Pure Hate).

But any way I'm sick of living in a country like this... Always having the fear to be killed when you are only showing your expression of your meanings and thoughts, tell me am I the only one who thinks about this? Wasent Holland a country where people had the opinion to do and say what they wanted without living in the fear of getting killed by some sort of person who thinks he is "GOD" by deciding who he may kill... Seriously this has to stop and right now else dutch people will start to randomly slaughter others (This might sound very unrealistic but this can happen when this goes on)

So people tell me... Am I wrong thinking here or what?

Sincerly, Aivars Irmejis

[Apollo 0]

Quote[/b] ]On the skin? What the heck was that about? Is this all proven or just plain theory or sensantionilizing a abuse event?

The short-movie Submission showed women half naked with deep scars on their body from abuse ,the text written on the naked flesh were "women-unfriendly" parts of the koran.

Kaitnieks ,i understand youre sentiment and would not be surprized if now many Dutch feel that way.It's a pitty to see such a liberal and freedom loveing country as The Netherlands normally is going to the drain.As Flemming seeing the Dutch from the outside yet having many cultural connections with it i already could witness a strong movement to the right in the mind of many Dutchy's after the murder on Fortuyn ,i can only fear that this second murder will only intensify that.

It's a pitty ,and many Flemmish (dutch speaking Belgians) are dissapointed to see the liberal dutch society society being destroyed by such murders.Know that most Belgians have always admired the liberal multicultural Dutch society ,for many of us it was a long time example and we often tried to evolve our society towards that example dutch liberal society. (just think of thing's like "gedoogbeleid" (not persecuting use of soft drug's by police and justice system in Belgium))

You know we Flemmish and Dutchie's have always been very strongly culturally connected with eachother ,so understand that we have the deepest feelings of compasion and solidarity for Holland in these dark times.

[Sole 0]

Heard the news this morning when I got back from school. It's just outrageous that someone get's murdered for openly stating his opinions.

[gandalf the white 0]

911 day's after Pim Fortuyn, ring any bell?

comitted on the second of november, written in the USA as 112 (dutch 911)

these guy's sure know how to pick their dates...

[svendejong 0]

Quote[/b] ]I say Marines and armoured vehicles on every streetcorner.

I surely hope that is a (bad) joke !

[Cpt. FrostBite 0]

@ Nov. 03 2004,08:21)]

Quote[/b] ]I say Marines and armoured vehicles on every streetcorner.

I surely hope that is a (bad) joke !

partially yes and partially no.

let me explain;

In past few years violence has grown in our country (as you well know). People get death-letters all the time, bullets have been fired at buildings and people, a politician murdered, an 'artist' murdered... and I'm afraid this will just go on and on.

There has always been a certain limit to how far people would go in this country. This made it quite safe. But the last few years it seems this limit has gone and the country has gone crazy. Gun-use and the use of other weapons has grown and criminals don't really seem to care about the human life anymore.

But we must also admit that the person who killed Van Gogh this might just work alone or with a very small group. If he/they had ties to a terrorist group he/they wouldn't kill this quite unimportant guy like Van Gogh.

Quote[/b] ]911 day's after Pim Fortuyn, ring any bell?

comitted on the second of november, written in the USA as 112 (dutch 911)

these guy's sure know how to pick their dates...

let me explain this too. With 'dutch 911' he doesn't mean "9/11", but the emergency phonenumber 911. In the Netherlands this number is '112'.

But since it is also 911 days after Pim Fortyn this is likely just a coincidence. I think the 911 days are a not a coincidence. Although the murder of Fortuyn has little to do with the murder of Van Gogh (becides the fact that the both hated foreigners with a dark skin).

[Sole 0]

becides the fact that the both hated foreigners with a dark skin

Not as far as I know, but they were indeed in favor of a much stricter immigration policy and 'control' of immigrants.

I wasn't much of a fan of either Van Gogh or Fortuyn (I didn't like Fortuyn at all to be honest), so I don't know the exact details of their stances. But like I said before, noone should be murdered for stating his opinion.