Trafalgar Celebrations

[Bordoy 0]

With the Trafalger Celebrations upcoming a few places have cancelled them, because of the British desire to upset no one apart from it's own citizens, because they are afraid of "upetting the French". What do you French people think about it? Will you be uspet?

Some local councillour said "It is poor celebrating a Frech loss, who are our allies, this is very poor". But I immediatly thought we are not celebrating a French loss, we are celebrating a British victory. It's just that this certain battle was against the greatest military power at the time.

Another councillour said "The D-Day celebrations were this year and the Germans were not upset about them, I doubt the French would get upset"

[The Frenchman 0]

Does July 4th offend the british? I dont think so.

[Winters 1]

Political Correctness is evil, there is nothing wrong with celebrating a victory.

[igor drukov 0]

I am French, and this is what I say :

Do celebrate the victory ! Napoleon went over the top IMO, and he had to be stopped. Trafalgar was a watershed battle (no pun intended).

Besides, all opportunities to remember past events should be seized. Knowing history is a duty.

So get ready for October 21st and June 22nd !

Regards,

Igor.

[Placebo 29]

Topic title fixed

Knowing history is a duty.

Couldn't agree more

(despite the fact I got a D in GCSE history )

[Akira 0]

Getting upset about a 200 year old victory is ridiculous. Celebrating could be considered ridiculous, but it is tradition.

July 4th is different as it was our declaration of independence, but we don't celebrate Yorktown Day (nor do the French or the Spanish).

But Napolean was a great threat to the British, and it was a very impressive victory, complete with the tragic death of its architect. So I say celebrate!

D-Day, in my opinion, is more about those that died, Allies and German, in that titanic one day struggle.

[Bordoy 0]

Yep, i thought the French would have tolerance in them (if that's the right word, lol)

Shows like Winters said, political correctness is going over the top.

[SPQR 0]

Nelson was the best Admiral (as Wellington was one a the greatest Generals), the Royal Navy was victorious. They deserve well this celebration.

Today we all should have a thought for all mariners, frenchs and britishs, who died in this battle, deathes that bring, with so many futher killed, peace between the two old enemies now friend (a stormy couple throught ).

I stomp on political correctness ...

[Tozmeister 0]

Bit OT I know, but on the subject of PC gone mad......

Quote[/b] ]

Teacher conquers over conkers

A HEADMASTER has bought his pupils safety goggles in a bid to stop a council banning games of conkers.

The defiant teacher vowed to find a way to keep up the traditional playground pastime after concerns were raised about safety.

Shaun Halfpenny, head of Cummersdale Primary School, in Cumbria, feared the game would be axed after he read a council memo warning schools about dangerous breaktime activities.

It had been thought youngsters could suffer eye injuries if struck by flying pieces of horse chestnut.

Pupils are now queuing up try out the two sets of safety glasses, more commonly used in science lessons.

[FSPilot 0]

Unfortunately political correctness rears it's ugly head again.

No matter what you do, you'll always piss off someone (at least if the whole world is watching anyway). Yeah, I'd probably be upset if some country celebrated all of our defeats as a nation. But it's not like I don't celebrate our victories as well.

[Milkman 1]

Getting upset about a 200 year old victory is ridiculous. Celebrating could be considered ridiculous, but it is tradition.

Kinda OT, and I know it is not a celebration, but why do the Spainish get so pissy about Gibralter? Its been about 200 years or so, shouldn't they just let go, like Britain did with the United States?

[Akira 0]

Getting upset about a 200 year old victory is ridiculous. Celebrating could be considered ridiculous, but it is tradition.

Kinda OT, and I know it is not a celebration, but why do the Spainish get so pissy about Gibralter? Its been about 200 years or so, shouldn't they just let go, like Britain did with the United States?

Well I guess that is a little different....as it is attached to their country. I guess it would be like the Germans owning, manning, and building bases at Key West, Florida I can see why they are a little pissy about it.

[WhoCares 0]

Getting upset about a 200 year old victory is ridiculous. Celebrating could be considered ridiculous, but it is tradition.

Did you ever heard about Portadown and the Orange Order? So, the Brits might be a bit 'over-sensitised' about the subject...

[whisperFFW06 0]

At least this celebration reminded me Trafalgar was a French loss

Well, I don't see why one should get upset. As Igor said, it's something to remember.

[HotShot 0]

We shoul give the Spanish Northern Ireland, but keep Gibralter

I really dont know why the hell this is even bothered celebrating about anymore anyway, you'd think a square i the middle of the capital named Trafalgar would be enough.

[sanctuary 19]

On my french point of view there are nothing to upset me in a Trafalgar celebration. Napoleon ambition and thirst for power needed to meet an end. Sad that it had to cost so many lives ..

He made enough people to suffer in the hope to achieve his crazy ambitions. Yes Napoleon made good decisions with some laws, the "Code Napoleon" in this time, but you have to remember that the slavery that was banished by Robespierre (one of the few good decisions from this other crazy dictator too) was "resurrected" by Napoleon.

There is nothing to be proud of Napoleon with his desire to go to war, really. Great man Napoleon ? how, he was just a dictator that was just near to succeed, costing a lot of his own people lives.

[Lupus-WD- 0]

I don't believe at all that memories are kept alive with celebrations of 200 year old battles. To me they mostly look like celebrating a football game victory, ultimately tending to be some folklore and "virtualizing" or glorifying war more than anything else. But that's just my take on them.

Every country does celebrate some key victories of their history, and as a French man i don't see how i could get specifically upset or even embarassed by the celebration of Trafalgar.

My point, if i were english i wouldn't really be interested with this celebration as i am not really interested with french celebrations of victories, but that's it.

As to learning history, you learn a lot more at school, in (history) books, documentaries, through all means of education in general

more than through some kind of glorifying rituals.

edit: i am planing on organizing some celebration of Hastings victory on location soon ? ;P J/K

[Blake 0]

One fact that some of the non-UK residents might find fascinating is that the Nelson's flasgship in Trafalgar, the HMS Victory, is on display in Portsmouth:

http://www.hms-victory.com/

I was astonished couple of years back to find out that such old ship, built in 18th century still exists in restored condition.

I definately try to visit it if I happen to visit UK in the future

[Munk 0]

One fact that some of the non-UK residents might find fascinating is that the Nelson's flasgship in Trafalgar, the HMS Victory, is on display in Southampton

Well to save you some time when you come to see it, its in Portsmouth's Historic Dockyard (along with the Mary Rose and The Warrior) not Southampton

[ThudBlunderQ8 0]

HMS Victory on display? She's more than that! - If you look at her webpage, you'll find that not only is she still in commission, but she's also the flagship of the Second Sea Lord and Commander in Chief Naval Home Command.

Oh, and with the latest round of defence cuts the Royal Navy will soon have fewer naval vessels in service than the French for the first time in hundreds of years... maybe time to see if the Victory's timbers can stand up to some more sea-time

[Bordoy 0]

@ Oct. 09 2004,15:44)]edit: i am planing on organizing some celebration of Hastings victory on location soon ?  ;P  J/K

I'll be celebrating Agincourt next time the date come along, hehe, lol.

On a historic point, they were the Normans (from Normandy) who invaded, were they known as the French then? But if your from Normandy then celebrate. What can i celebrate as Mercian not Englishman?

[DarkLight 0]

(despite the fact I got a D in GCSE history )

What? .......

......

Moderators aren't perfect in all ways?!!!

[Lupus-WD- 0]

@ Oct. 09 2004,15:44)]edit: i am planing on organizing some celebration of Hastings victory on location soon ? ;P J/K

I'll be celebrating Agincourt next time the date come along, hehe, lol.

Would you celebrate a victorious battle in a war you ultimately lost ? ;)

Quote[/b] ]

On a historic point, they were the Normans (from Normandy) who invaded, were they known as the French then? But if your from Normandy then celebrate. What can i celebrate as Mercian not Englishman?

well defining France as such is quite controversial and quite arbitrary even if its generally admitted that the foundation of France is the kingdom of the Franks and Normans had pledged allegiance to the king Charles III (aka "le simple" aka "de France"). whatever the arbitrary answer you'd give, i can legitimately celebrate hastings, see the flag in my sig and this ;P

All these lines , all this long serious (hmmm not that serious) post for nothing : rest assured that i was kidding, i do not intend on organizing some Hastings celebrations

[Akira 0]

HMS Victory on display? She's more than that! - If you look at her webpage, you'll find that not only is she still in commission, but she's also the flagship of the Second Sea Lord and Commander in Chief Naval Home Command.

Oh, and with the latest round of defence cuts the Royal Navy will soon have fewer naval vessels in service than the French for the first time in hundreds of years... maybe time to see if the Victory's timbers can stand up to some more sea-time

I guess we have something in common. The USS Constitution ("Ol' Ironsides") is also still in commisioned, has been restored, and actually sails once a year when they turn her about (something about even wear or barnacles or something). She sails around Boston Harbour to much fanfare.

I'd like to see that once.

EDIT: USS Constitution

[denoir 0]

Here in Stockholm we have the pride of the Swedis navy, that sunk on its maiden voyage in 1628. It was salvaged in 1961 and is the world's only ship from the 16th century still in existance:

She is (obviously) not still commisioned and is probably not sea-worthy as she wasn't 400 years ago either.

The design of the ship was flawed (too heavy topside) and wasn't tested properly.

In 1628 the ship was ready. Sunday August 10 was the day of the  Vasa's maiden voyage. The beaches around Stockholm were filled with  spectators, among them foreign diplomats. The maiden voyage was  to be a big act of propaganda.

The Vasa set sail and fired a salute. But only after a few minutes of sailing the ship began to heel over. She righted herself slightly - and heeled over again. Water started to gush in through the open  gunports. And, to everyones disbelief, the suddenly sank.

At the time she was the world's largest ship and biggest badass warship with 64 cannons and a crew of 145 plus a garrison of 300 soldiers.

Speaking of defeats, there's one interesting thing with the Swedish navy. Sweden has during the centuries for longer periods had a very strong military. In the 17th century we held a good portion of Europe (We're for instance the only ones in history that have actually succeeded to defeat Russia and occupy Moscow) etc So we were a very formidable power - in periods the strongest in Europe (and hence probably the world).

Our navy however has always been a disaster. We've always dumped a shitload of money into it. More than once it was the biggest and most powerful in the world. Yet, out of several hundred battles fought, we've won less than a dozen. It's quite amazing, one would think that we would have won more by just pure chance, but no. One disaster after another. Our navy has been beaten countless times by smaller, weaker forces