Two Russian Civilian Airlines Lost on Radar

[edc 0]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,129919,00.html

Quote[/b] ]One Russian Airliner Crashes, Second Missing

Tuesday, August 24, 2004

MOSCOW — A Russian airliner crashed south of Moscow, and another passenger jet went missing about the same time after both took off from Moscow, the ITAR-Tass news agency reported Wednesday. There was no word on survivors.

Witnesses reported seeing an explosion before the plane crashed, and authorities were not ruling out terrorism, the agency said.

A Tu-134 airliner (search) that apparently had 42 people aboard crashed in the Tula region, 125 miles south of Moscow, at about 10:56 p.m. Tuesday, ITAR-Tass reported, citing the Emergency Situations Ministry.

A Tu-154 with 44 people aboard went missing about the same time near Rostov-on-Don, about 600 miles south of Moscow, but authorities had not found any wreckage, ITAR-Tass said.

Earlier, however, the agency said emergency officials reported that the second plane crashed about three minutes after the first one.

Quoting an unnamed air traffic official in Moscow, where both planes originated, ITAR-Tass said authorities were not ruling out terrorism. The agency also reported that witnesses said they saw an explosion before the Tula region crash.

The plane that crashed near Tula (search) was headed to the southern city of Volgograd, while the plane that disappeared was flying to the Black Sea resort city of Sochi, where President Vladimir Putin is vacationing, ITAR-Tass reported.

When Russia's U.N. Ambassador Andrey Denisov (search) was told of the initial report of two near simultaneous crashes, he said, "Now we have to see if there's terrorism."

In Washington, a senior U.S. State Department official said, "We are obviously concerned by the news. We're following developments closely and trying to determine the facts."

The U.S. Homeland Security Department (search) was monitoring the situation but was not implementing any additional security measures in the United States, spokesman Brian Roehrkasse said.

The crash comes only days before Sunday's presidential election in the breakaway republic of Chechnya. Pro-Russian President Akhmad Kadyrov (search) was killed by a bombing in May.

A series of deadly explosions in recent years has claimed hundreds of lives in blasts that have been blamed mostly on Chechen separatist rebels.

Other sites:

http://www.cnn.com/2004....ex.html

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5810127/

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3596354.stm

My condolences go out to the families of those aboard the aircraft.

[Akira 0]

Interesting they don't mention the airline. Also interesting they both originated from Moscow.

I would be very surprised if this wasn't terrorism.

[pogingwapo 0]

Hope this is not a Russian repeat of the 9/11 terrorist attacks

[Akira 0]

The chance of two airliners, leaving from the same airport, and crashing with in 3 minutes of each other, is just to remote for it to be an accident (though of course it is possible). Also, witnesses reported an explosion, though witness accounts are notoriously inaccurate and are always ignored for an investigation.

The timing would suggest a bomb with a timer. A barometric bomb seems unlikely, but one can't be sure without knowing the stage of flight each plane was in. Also would be interesting to see if there were any flight delays, and if so, where the planes SHOULD have been. Also what kind of connecting flights might be involved.

It would be easy to blame this on pissed off Chechens.

[Winters 1]

Damn, what a waste i hope they sort this out and quick.

[KEVBAZ 0]

gonna be terroism, doubt itll be the same group as 9/11, more likley to be chechen rebles or something.

not good

[Tovarish 0]

Ok, so to summarize...

- Both planes took off from Moscow's Domodedovo airport, "within hours of each other"

- Both apparently dissapeared almost simultaneously

- Witnesses saw the Tu-134 explode in mid air, the fuselage came down in two large pieces.

- Chechen elections are due to take place in a few days.

Pretty much spells out terrorism.

[MSpencer 0]

It basically looks like the Chechens, and knowing how overzealous the Russian militia is about internal security, they'll get to the bottom of this one, probably with US aid.

[Mister Frag 0]

The Russian authorities are now reporting that a hijacking signal (I assume a transponder setting, not a radio message) was received before the second plane disappeared from radar.

[theavonlady 2]

Quote[/b] ]Wreckage of Second Russian Plane Found

17 minutes ago

MOSCOW (Reuters) - Russia's Emergency Ministry said on Wednesday that the wreckage of a missing passenger plane had been found near the southern Russian town of Rostov-on-Don.

It was one of two planes which had gone missing almost simultaneously late on Tuesday. It was carrying more than 40 people.

[Bernadotte 0]

CNN has reported that, in the case of the second flight, the control tower had alerted police about the crew coming under attack.  Perhaps some terrorist organisation will claim responsibility later today, although they probably failed to achieve their objectives.

[Placebo 28]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3596354.stm

Quote[/b] ]Two Russian airliners carrying 89 passengers and crew crashed within minutes of each other after flying out of the same Moscow airport.

Eyewitnesses at one scene said they heard a plane roaring overhead followed by "an explosion like thunder."

Russian President Vladimir Putin ordered the state security services, the FSB, to launch an investigation.

An FSB spokesman said searches had revealed no signs of terrorism but sabotage had not been ruled out.

There was speculation Chechen rebels were behind the attack, ahead of presidential elections in the republic on Sunday - but this has been denied by rebel leaders.

A spokesman from Moscow's Domodedovo airport said no foreigners were on either passenger list.

bold is mine.

[bn880 5]

Well this is a tragedy for the families, of course my condolences.

However, everyone has been saying the Chechen conflict should be resolved... this was even mroe certain than Americans being targetted on their own soil, but only due to the ocean/geography.

[Akira 0]

They are saying the investigation is focusing on fouled aviation fuel and/or pilot error. Bad weather was reported in the area.

This could indeed be one of those really strange coincidences, though I still find it hard to believe.

EDIT: Though if both planes used the same fouled aviation tanker....that would not make it such a coincedence.

[Pathy 0]

Well if both Aircraft took on fouled fuel then it would make sense that both would run into trouble. However, it does seem more likely that this wasnt just chance.....

[Shashman 0]

I can't remember which one, but one of the aircraft crashed near where Putin was staying

Something else to keep in mind when deciding whether this was an act of terrorism or a set of unlikely coincidences

[theavonlady 2]

I can't remember which one, but one of the aircraft crashed near where Putin was staying  

No. It was on its way to Sochi, where Putin is vacationing, but it did not crash near Sochi, which is far away, near the Black Sea.

[bn880 5]

They are saying the investigation is focusing on fouled aviation fuel and/or pilot error. Bad weather was reported in the area.

This could indeed be one of those really strange coincidences, though I still find it hard to believe.

EDIT: Though if both planes used the same fouled aviation tanker....that would not make it such a coincedence.

Fouled fuel could do that, but it would have to be pretty drastic fo the planes to explode in the air....

[ran 0]

They are saying the investigation is focusing on fouled aviation fuel and/or pilot error. Bad weather was reported in the area.

This could indeed be one of those really strange coincidences, though I still find it hard to believe.

EDIT: Though if both planes used the same fouled aviation tanker....that would not make it such a coincedence.

Fouled fuel could do that, but it would have to be pretty drastic fo the planes to explode in the air....

You never know, it's Russia after all.

[MSpencer 0]

It could be a terrorist group, easily. Aeroflot never was an airline for security, mainly because they didn't need it, their planes would crash in the "worker's paradise" on their own. They don't even know for sure how many people were on the plane. I'm surprised this didn't happen sooner.

[bn880 5]

They are saying the investigation is focusing on fouled aviation fuel and/or pilot error. Bad weather was reported in the area.

This could indeed be one of those really strange coincidences, though I still find it hard to believe.

EDIT: Though if both planes used the same fouled aviation tanker....that would not make it such a coincedence.

Fouled fuel could do that, but it would have to be pretty drastic fo the planes to explode in the air....

You never know, it's Russia after all.

I know, want to see my IRC log from yesterday? Well here it is anyway:

Quote[/b] ][19:32] <bn880> oh shit

[19:33] <bn880> 2 ussian civ planes may have crashed

[19:33] <A> oh shit?

[19:33] <bn880> *russian

[19:33] <A> doh

[19:33] <bn880> 44 and 42 people

[19:33] <bn880> ...

[19:33] <bn880> not as bad as 240 and 250

[19:34] <bn880> well that sucks, but what can you do, still safer than cars

[19:34] <B> yeah, one definitely crashed,

[19:34] <B> the other disappeared from radar 3 minutes later

[19:34] <B> in different parts of the country

[19:34] <B> but they both left the same airport

[19:34] <B> go figure

[19:35] <bn880> yeah

[19:35] <bn880> odd

[19:35] <bn880> diluted fuel?

I would not put it past possibility.

[Supah 0]

They are saying the investigation is focusing on fouled aviation fuel and/or pilot error. Bad weather was reported in the area.

This could indeed be one of those really strange coincidences, though I still find it hard to believe.

EDIT: Though if both planes used the same fouled aviation tanker....that would not make it such a coincedence.

Fouled fuel could do that, but it would have to be pretty drastic fo the planes to explode in the air....

You never know, it's Russia after all.

I know, want to see my IRC log from yesterday?  Well here it is anyway:

Quote[/b] ][19:32] <bn880> oh shit

[19:33] <bn880> 2 ussian civ planes may have crashed

[19:33] <A> oh shit?

[19:33] <bn880> *russian

[19:33] <A> doh

[19:33] <bn880> 44 and 42 people

[19:33] <bn880> ...

[19:33] <bn880> not as bad as 240 and 250

[19:34] <bn880> well that sucks, but what can you do, still safer than cars

[19:34] <B> yeah, one definitely crashed,

[19:34] <B> the other disappeared from radar 3 minutes later

[19:34] <B> in different parts of the country

[19:34] <B> but they both left the same airport

[19:34] <B> go figure

[19:35] <bn880> yeah

[19:35] <bn880> odd

[19:35] <bn880> diluted fuel?

I would not put it past possibility.  

I was thinking the exact same thing but apparently one of the planes crews radio'ed in shortly before crashing about a hostage situation. Atleast thats what i am hearing here

[Pathy 0]

Then theres no question.....

...the strange thing is, usually the Chechens claim responsibility for thier acts of violence, i've heard of nobody claiming it.  

[bn880 5]

Yeah, well, it might be difficult to filter out rumors from facts and/or propaganda. Gotta love Russia.

[raedor 8]

They are saying the investigation is focusing on fouled aviation fuel and/or pilot error. Bad weather was reported in the area.

This could indeed be one of those really strange coincidences, though I still find it hard to believe.

EDIT: Though if both planes used the same fouled aviation tanker....that would not make it such a coincedence.

Fouled fuel could do that, but it would have to be pretty drastic fo the planes to explode in the air....

You never know, it's Russia after all.

I know, want to see my IRC log from yesterday? Well here it is anyway:

Quote[/b] ][19:32] <bn880> oh shit

[19:33] <bn880> 2 ussian civ planes may have crashed

[19:33] <A> oh shit?

[19:33] <bn880> *russian

[19:33] <A> doh

[19:33] <bn880> 44 and 42 people

[19:33] <bn880> ...

[19:33] <bn880> not as bad as 240 and 250

[19:34] <bn880> well that sucks, but what can you do, still safer than cars

[19:34] <B> yeah, one definitely crashed,

[19:34] <B> the other disappeared from radar 3 minutes later

[19:34] <B> in different parts of the country

[19:34] <B> but they both left the same airport

[19:34] <B> go figure

[19:35] <bn880> yeah

[19:35] <bn880> odd

[19:35] <bn880> diluted fuel?

I would not put it past possibility.

I was thinking the exact same thing but apparently one of the planes crews radio'ed in shortly before crashing about a hostage situation. Atleast thats what i am hearing here

yes, they did radio a hostage situation. the airline sibir (the airline of the 2nd machine (tupolew-154) which crashed near rostow) reported that on their homepage. but that only means that there was a "dangerous situation", it's not 100% a kidnapping.

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