The "community"

[benu 1]

The question is not "why you have to put up with it" the question is why you do.

This is the internet. There will always be complains and you will not change that.

You shouldn't do addons because you want to be praised for it but because you like it. You should like the addons, not some idiot who doesn't even comprehend what the addon is all about.

I run a server. I get the same mixture of praise and insults. But i like what i am doing and i am not going to complain.

If those postings are too much for you to bear then do your addons and stop reading the responses. If it is too much for you that someone might put down your addons even if you do not read those comments yourself then stop making addons.

But don't come here and call the whole ofp community assholes. If you really think so you should maybe switch to a game with a better community. I run online servers for a few years now and i can tell you the ofp community is quite the opposite of what you make of it. But if you are reading only the bad comments to get into a "the ofp community is bad" whine then maybe you should quit.

As i said i really liked all the bas addons. We have everything from you guys on the server and i would be sorry if you stopped making addons. But this doesn't mean that those same rules you want from others do not apply to you too. Coming here and calling the whole community rotten is bad style really. You know none of the people i play with every day but they are part of the community too. They are part of the people you put down as ungrateful, rude, etc guys with your thread here. Actually, when i think about how insulting you started this thread i am surprised about the mostly friendly responses you got. This alone should give you a clue how highly regarded bas is in this community.

But if you want to base your decision on the minority that flames everything and everyone ("why should we put up with that 1%") as you do over and over again in this thread then i am afraid leaving this forum or the ofp community altogether is your only choice.

[Winters 1]

all i goto say is DM and all addon makers in the OFP community is with out your help the community will have been dead a long time ago and nobody would care about flashpoint 2. So in return. NOW I'M GONNA LEARN O2. Cos after reading this. I've ust downloaded 100 houndreds of addons. With out returning a thing. i owe the flashpoint community a lot of Missions and Addons and anims.

*edit*- adding a word

Don't forget about the mission makers, without us there would be nothing to use all these great addons with

[Winters 1]

I have a suggestion that might help show just how much strong support there is for the OFP editing community.

Can someone make a 100x100 OFP mission/addon/mod maker solidarity ribbon icon. You know, this shaped type of ribbon:

but with a motif/design that's appropriate for OFP?

I'd be glad to pin it onto my forum sig.

If these turn up all over the forum, addon makers and others that devote their time to betterring the game will constantly have positive proof that their work is always appreciated by the vast majority of the community.

Medicus, that looks great  

[Stag 0]

Equally, @wardog, this ISN'T about wanting pure praise, ass kissing and statements like "I want your babies." This is about moving away from that too, towards a more structured and mature way of responding to addons. The people who say "I want your babies" are actually the ones I tend to ignore. The reason I personally tend to "focus" on the "negative" elements of the thread is because THEY are the posts which often do have information about bugs in, but its trawling through the "this is crap/shit/bollocks/a waste of time because xxx sucks" that brings you down. I couldn't care less about what people THINK of the addon, its the "xxx bit is wrong" that I'm interested in. But WHY do people HAVE to post the "this is crap/shit/etc..." before hand? This is what I'm about. We welcome critisim, we welcome bug reports, after all when we fix the bugs it makes it more enjoyable for us too. But why post the foul language or personal/mod attacks beforehand? Thats what I want to know...

Neither I nor Tankieboy ever once said anything like "crap," or "shite," and though my first post in that thread could have been more informative, all criticism was accurate and intended to be constructive. Yet you cited that thread as one which proves your point. I think Benu has it right here; why the hell should I sit quietly while you accuse me of flaming?

It seems to me you need to examine your own attitudes as well.

I'm out of here.

[Gollum1 0]

The same goes for the hundreds of different M4 variants out there. People make their own version for the simple reason that they cant find it in themselves to ask for permission to use someone elses work... Sheer madness if you ask me...

I used to think the same, but Suchey then pointed out that many newbie addon makers might feel comfortable in starting out with a cool, easy and well-known weapon as their first addon. Perhaps that is part of it?

And be grateful you get any addons Deadmeat, complaining about addons that are released and don't have any bugs is not constructive.

Another thing: I am NOT going to lie down and take these accusations of flaming, don't start calling the entire community assholes because of some kiddies at ofp.info, then you're no better than the whiners you hate. Come on, the facts are that the VAST majority of comments are perfectly normal, or useless ass-kissing, :rolleyes:

Good day, but don't try to insult people that don't deserve it.

[ozanzac 0]

all i goto say is DM and all addon makers in the OFP community is with out your help the community will have been dead a long time ago and nobody would care about flashpoint 2. So in return. NOW I'M GONNA LEARN O2. Cos after reading this. I've ust downloaded 100 houndreds of addons. With out returning a thing. i owe the flashpoint community a lot of Missions and Addons and anims.

*edit*- adding a word

Beleive me, I gave modeling, texturing and island making a long time ago, and lets say, SHIFT+DELETE was all my work ever deserved!

But, having taken the oppurtunity to try my hand at what you guys produce, I came to realise just how hard it would be to make an addon of anysoughts up to scratch for a public release. And for it, I've come to respect people and their work much more thouroughly, knowing that I, and probably many others like me, lack the basic knowledege let alone the skill to accomplish what you guys do.

Maybe that's the basis of many peoples 'immaturity' towards peoples work. They just don't know how hard it is or would be to make any addon at all, and can't comprehend the skill and time neccesary to produce quality piece of work. I don't know what they think, but it's as if they don't recognise it was a person who put that time into making any addon.

Anyhow, I probably haven't seen the worst that these forums have produced, but I know it's nowhere near as bad here as it is in other parts of the OFP community. At least some of us are greatful.  

[The Frenchman 0]

We at IM:UC(and my guess is also that most small mods) also suffer from "Newbicitus"

Now my role is not as important as most of the other member so some would expect that if we recieve "consructive" comments I would not become angry, since I did not texture or model the addon. This is not true. Some of these newbish comments that we recieved for releasing our teaser pack have made me just as mad as when we found out Red vs Blue Forum's reaction to my post about the russian honor guard picture being PSed for a gaming magizine.(we all remember that   )Comments that we recieved for our teaser pack(from a certain gaming site) included:

Quote[/b] ]these look like shit; sorry man; iraqi soldier dont look this way

Quote[/b] ]show me one url of real iraqi soldiers that look like that

Quote[/b] ]What the Fuck?

This aint Iraqi guys...

I do belive that these "people" have gotten their info on the Iraqi Armed forces from Counter Strike.

Tell me what these are then.

[CanadianTerror 0]

Ive said in previous debates on this that a lot of people get just as tired of hearing addons makers whine.

The whole community doesnt deserve to be looked down upon because a lot of kids post nasty comments. It's just not something that people who dont do it can fix. All you can do is ban the really bad ones.

I dont know what else you can debate/argue on this subject?

As has been said, a lot of the "offenders" wont even see this. Maybe it should be moved to the addon forum areas where it has a chance to be seen?

It's just a rant thread otherwise.

[MEDICUS 0]

Now my role is not as important as most of the other member ...

Hmmm ... I think that's not the truth!

Everyone (or almost everyone) here or in the community takes his part. The one make models, textures or whole addons, the others missions, tutorials or just try to help.

I think, that there is no one who is more important than someone else (exept suma ... he's the BIG MAN   )

About the community:

OFP is the first game, i started to play in multiplayer (yes ... fell free to call me a noob ). I never played games like CS or Ultima Online. So i've never been part of a communty like that (I hope tat i'm allowed to say that I feel as part of this community). Never have been in a CS-Forum or something else....

And i have to say, that i feel really comfortable here (in this forum and the whole communty).

Here, in this forum, there will always be someone who trys to help you at anytime if you need it. You get good informations about questions on editing, scripting, modeling etc.

And it's the same in some other forums, Mapfact.net for example.

So all in all i would give a **** on the guys which can't appreciate your work. It's kind of unfair to blame all for the bad behaviour of some childish ones. We should all be "old enough" to be able to ignore this 1%(?).

Mfg MEDICUS

[Asmodeus 0]

I'm at work so I must make this brief for now.

I agree that it can be difficult to face the negative feedback when it's not presented constructively.

I remember when we first released addons, most of what we got was complaints and we hated it. It was very discouraging and almost made us decide to quit releasing to public. Then, after time we adopted this method for our recent sub and Kalighat Island releases: (I'll explain more about why later)

Quote[/b] ]

Important Notes

**************************************************************************

This addon was created for Operation Flashpoint versions 1.91 and above. Due to factors beyond our control, there are some limitations to this addon. Please refer to the limitations section of this readme file for details.

Also, we have created a thread in our forums for feedback here:

http://waterman.conforums.com/index.c....2152023

Please understand that we welcome all constructive comments and will do our best to reply to them. However, we will not respond to any unhelpful or immature comments, it's a free addon and a labor of love after all!

____

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Check out our sub release thread:

<a href="http://www.flashpoint1985.com/cgi-bin/ikonboard311/ikonboard.cgi?s=56e405c4fe3d0cafd5ddc88d2d8eb

b6b;act=ST;f=4;t=36015;st=0" target='_blank'>http://www.flashpoint1985.com/cgi-bin....15;st=0</a>

We didn't have any probs with "jerk" type feedback. (which we REALLY appreciate) It was actually quite the opposite. We received great feedback and bug reports, along with suggestions for helping us.

However, had we received unfounded/unhelpful criticisms, no matter how much I would want to respond, I'd just ignore the fool and be happy that so many others appreciate our effort.

That's all for now, I love the OFP community as a whole and admire the general maturity of everyone.

Do your best to ignore the fools and just have fun, my fellow OFP addon/mission/etc creators!

Asmo

[Gollum1 0]

Quote[/b] ]

Important Notes

**************************************************************************

This addon was created for Operation Flashpoint versions 1.91 and above. Due to factors beyond our control, there are some limitations to this addon. Please refer to the limitations section of this readme file for details.

Also, we have created a thread in our forums for feedback here:

http://waterman.conforums.com/index.c....2152023

Please understand that we welcome all constructive comments and will do our best to reply to them. However, we will not respond to any unhelpful or immature comments, it's a free addon and a labor of love after all!

____

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think that is very well formulated.

If only everyone would have the patience to read the readme.

[dm 9]

@Gollum and benu. At what point did I call you flamers or the like? You are reading this the wrong way. Its not meant to be a whinge about them, nor is it meant to degrade the "community." You will note that almost every time I use the word community, it is in quotation marks, to symbolise that I'm using it as a generalisation for everyone who plays ofp, and is vocal about it on forums. If you want, I'll use "whiners" and "non-whiners"

Quote[/b] ]But don't come here and call the whole ofp community assholes.

If you can find and quote me saying that EVER, I'll give you a medal... You're adding 2 and 2 and coming up with 64.

The reason I made this thread (if you read the first post carefully) is to ask people like you, the "non-whiners" what we can do about the "whiners" other than simply ignore them. Cheaters, they get banned, so why can't persistant flamers/flamebaiters?

Quote[/b] ]The question is not "why you have to put up with it" the question is why you do.

As for this comment, what if we all [every addon maker] did shut up shop? You'd all soon enough be begging for addon makers to return. Hell, look at when Blackdog "left" there were people left right and center calling for his return, simply to prevent tacticalblunder going down...

What I'm trying to put across, is what IS up with human nature? Why ARE there people like this? And WHY is it that the majority ALWAYS has to suffer at the hands of the minority?

Quote[/b] ]And be grateful you get any addons Deadmeat

Erm... I make them, so I know exactly how hard it is, how much time and effort people put into it... I think out of the two of us, I'm more "qualified" to say how hard it is to make them. Also, I would like to point out that my entry into the world of addon making wasn;t an M4... I made an M134, so just because its "easy" to make isnt really a valid "excuse" there are plenty of other rifles which havent even been touched upon yet which would make perfect entries into the world of addon making.

Quote[/b] ]Another thing: I am NOT going to lie down and take these accusations of flaming, don't start calling the entire community assholes because of some kiddies at ofp.info, then you're no better than the whiners you hate. Come on, the facts are that the VAST majority of comments are perfectly normal, or useless ass-kissing, :rolleyes:

Good day, but don't try to insult people that don't deserve it.

I never SPECIFICALLY named anyone, just the general group of "flamers and ignorants" so if you feel so offended by my statements, then there must be a deeper reason for that. Also, I use the word community as loosely as it can be applied (as allready explained)

I'll say it again (for the God knows how many'th time)

The idea of this thread is NOT to insult anyone, or to ensure that the only feedback we get is ass kissing and pointless.

The idea is to find out WHERE it all "went wrong" and where the manners went. We don't want ass-kissing the same as we don't want spam or flames etc. What we DO want, is for people to read the readmes (as Asmo nicely pointed out) and to structure their bug reports. Rather than just says "this is crap because this bit sucks", but to check and test, and to say "this bit isn't right/doesn't look good" etc in a POLITE manner, which is far more likely to evolve into a meaningful discusion about the good/bad points of the addon, rather than getting the addon makers backs up, and simply getting flamed back.

Maybe I was too naieve to think that a thread like this could have an effect, as it has clearly drawn the good and the bad sides out of people.

[DKM Jaguar 0]

I've read 1/2 of this thread.

I've come to this conclusion. You give people rewards when they have done something worth rewarding. So why are the addon makers having to try to get the communitys' respect? Surely they should earn OUR respect so that we can reward it with an addon. To be honest after yesturday's events I'm just fed up with the community to the point where I do not participate in it anymore, other than to release missions. But then I am only going to release my missions so that the honourable people on places such as this, (Lee h. ) for example may get them, and of course for the team itself, as this is my way of repaying what they do to give me the addons. Basically, the missions I make are for a limited audience, the one which will apreiciate them. THis audience is almost entirely made from addon makers, as they know what moding is about. If anyone complains, they immediatly exclude themselves from this target audience and therefore void any and all comments they make to do with releases. That's my view, and I did not have this view 48 hours ago. If people are making comments to improve my mission, then that I will accept. But saying "I don't like this mission, I don't like DKM addons" is stupid, becuase if you don't like what it is about then you should not comment on it.

[theavonlady 2]

This morning I replied to an email from someone asking for help, with actual help. A short while later, I got back a full rant for part of the advice I gave.

I could've responded but I didn't. It's not worth it. I won't even put the person's email address on my kill list (yet). It's too trivial.

What you guys need is one of those little hand held bean bag toys that, when punched or thrown against the wall, activates voice recordings saying things like "That's not the J model", "Fix this now", "Get it right", "We don't need no stinkin' addon makers", "Wah-wah-wah", etc.

edit: if others think my solidarity pic idea is a good one, would anyone else like to offer one up that's a bit less flashy than what's been submitted.

There I go, ranting again.

[cozza 24]

Don't forget about the mission makers, without us there would be nothing to use all these great addons with  

Sorry i forget them. yes All mission makers. U make all addons very fun to see in combat.

Also after trying O2 for a while i decide to find a tut I think I'll get my mission done first.

[aj_addons 0]

if youre looking for good tut's mate try brssb's and klinks, but saying that after a while youll discover oxygen is just a giant game of join the dots

ive heard a couple of people mention about ofp.info and noobs comenting on addons i think the biggest problem with this is that there is no log in or anything its compleltly anonomus so any little scrot can go there and bitch about any addon without fear of reprise

[whisperFFW06 0]

Quote[/b] ]The reason I made this thread (if you read the first post carefully) is to ask people like you, the "non-whiners" what we can do about the "whiners" other than simply ignore them. Cheaters, they get banned, so why can't persistant flamers/flamebaiters?

Then comes the problem of "who is persistant flamer?"

You can't ban someone criticizing, but you could ban "persistant flamer"? What's the difference?

No, this would simply lead to people feeling injustly baned, etc...

In fact, what makes a flamer persistant is the fact that he is heard, and receive (often in heat tone) replies. Seeing that his rant gives results, he continues.

Moreover, sometimes, even in the middle of a big flaming post, there is something true. It can be usefull, even if it's the case for only 5% of the flaming posts.

Like I said in CSLA-II thread, 99% of the user are thankfull to addonmakers. Unfortunately there is this 1% vocal minority of stupid flamers, you can't avoid them, they are, that's it.

Making a post about it, while there is no solution against it, will make the community more uncomfortable on the subject.

Perhaps having a pre-formatted answer, stating like "this is something we searched about, made decision about, and encountered issues with it, we decided to do it that way and none other, that's OUR decision. If you don't feel ok with it, not our fault, do it yourself if you want/can."

Whis'

[benu 1]

@Gollum and benu. At what point did I call you flamers or the like? You are reading this the wrong way. Its not meant to be a whinge about them, nor is it meant to degrade the "community." You will note that almost every time I use the word community, it is in quotation marks, to symbolise that I'm using it as a generalisation for everyone who plays ofp, and is vocal about it on forums. If you want, I'll use "whiners" and "non-whiners"

Quote[/b] ]But don't come here and call the whole ofp community assholes.

If you can find and quote me saying that EVER, I'll give you a medal... You're adding 2 and 2 and coming up with 64.

I did not feel offended by this thread or anything you said in it, i just wanted to make the point that your way of saying it is not the best way either. "Community" is all of us, you talk about the superset if you were to talk in terms of set theory when actually you mean just a small subset (although you will perceive the subset as larger than eg i do ).

It is for this reason that i did not feel tankieboys comment rude in any way, although you and some others seemed to do (and although i usually think of most of his comments as downward insulting usually).

Just to make this clear: i really do appreciate your work and i really understand your frustration about those flamers. It's just that i fear there is really not much we can do about it AND your way of phrasing it wasn't the best either.

Quote[/b] ]The reason I made this thread (if you read the first post carefully) is to ask people like you, the "non-whiners" what we can do about the "whiners" other than simply ignore them. Cheaters, they get banned, so why can't persistant flamers/flamebaiters?

As i said before: you can't change people. Either get them moderated here ("Placebo, please ban xxx for being an asshole") or relocate discussions to a place where you have total control. I run a forum myself, it's not much hassle setting it up. The only problem is the time you have to put into it. But you can save that same time here

Quote[/b] ]

Quote[/b] ]The question is not "why you have to put up with it" the question is why you do.

As for this comment, what if we all [every addon maker] did shut up shop? You'd all soon enough be begging for addon makers to return. Hell, look at when Blackdog "left" there were people left right and center calling for his return, simply to prevent tacticalblunder going down...

I don't know, there have been so many addons lately and so few missions that mission makers have some time to catch up. I guess if all addon makers closed shops the community would grow considerably smaller. Although i am not sure. We play more and more CTI in the last months and those don't need any addons, and our mission makers have quite a few addons to play with now. Not to put your work down, because without you we wouldn't have this addons to begin with, but right now i would be more afraid about all mission makers closing shop

And speaking about blackdog: His services were missed as soon as he was gone, that is true. But he is actually an example for what you are talking about: respect for others, tone of posts and general friendlyness towards each other. This has to be enforced by forum rules. I have seen many unmoderated or badly moderated forums, and i think you don't know how good this board actually is. And blackdog was one of the guys not sticking to the rules in this forum. Although i really like him and am just now helping him to set up his new server, i did not feel that his ban was totally unjustified.

Quote[/b] ]What I'm trying to put across, is what IS up with human nature? Why ARE there people like this? And WHY is it that the majority ALWAYS has to suffer at the hands of the minority?

I can't answer that one, but i can tell that you won't change the whole of humanity in the next few days.

Quote[/b] ]

Quote[/b] ]Another thing: I am NOT going to lie down and take these accusations of flaming, don't start calling the entire community assholes because of some kiddies at ofp.info, then you're no better than the whiners you hate. Come on, the facts are that the VAST majority of comments are perfectly normal, or useless ass-kissing, :rolleyes:

Good day, but don't try to insult people that don't deserve it.

I never SPECIFICALLY named anyone, just the general group of "flamers and ignorants" so if you feel so offended by my statements, then there must be a deeper reason for that. Also, I use the word community as loosely as it can be applied (as allready explained)

I never understood it that way, my answer was more an anser to some of the responses eg tankieboy got, i wanted to show you that your posting, how ever well intented, can be read in a different way too. If you want to make the community a better place than try to read the most friendly possible meaning out of peoples post, taking into account their language problems (hell, you wouldn't believe how difficult it can be to make exactly the statement you are thinking of in your native tongue in another language, with all the "connotational" stuff that is going on and the slangs people are using), and try to think if a negative answer is worth the time typing it at all. Most time it's better to either ask politely that they explain their posting or ignore their posts altogether.

Quote[/b] ]I'll say it again (for the God knows how many'th time)

The idea of this thread is NOT to insult anyone, or to ensure that the only feedback we get is ass kissing and pointless.

The idea is to find out WHERE it all "went wrong" and where the manners went. We don't want ass-kissing the same as we don't want spam or flames etc. What we DO want, is for people to read the readmes (as Asmo nicely pointed out) and to structure their bug reports. Rather than just says "this is crap because this bit sucks", but to check and test, and to say "this bit isn't right/doesn't look good" etc in a POLITE manner, which is far more likely to evolve into a meaningful discusion about the good/bad points of the addon, rather than getting the addon makers backs up, and simply getting flamed back.

Maybe I was too naieve to think that a thread like this could have an effect, as it has clearly drawn the good and the bad sides out of people.

If you really wanted to do that you should see it through. Else it was just whining. Or did you expect all the flamers to go away after just one post?

I can only speak for myself, but i try to be constructive in my posts. I did write some bug reports for bas addons btw, and i don't think any of them could be read as a flame. Iknow that i sometimes sound rude, but most of the time this is not because i flame someone but because people don't like an antithetic response if it not "sugared" with lots of please, maybe, thanks, etc. This isn't helped by having to write in english here.

And to make on thing clear, it's nothing personal, but my view of the internet and i had to tell this to some of my players too: you can not force me or anyone else here in this forum to anything. This is the internet, we have signed no contract with you. So, in everything you do you should not demand something of others. You should not do something because you expect a specific reaction from someone because of it. Do what you like, and because you like it. And stop it when you don't like it anymore. We had players who wanted to force other players to do more for the "server community" too. I told them to stop it. The players in the server community spend their free time with us and that is all we can demand. I run the server because i like doing it and i will stop if i can't bring myself to do it anymore.

Make of this what you want. I respect your work, most of the community does. If you find the small part that flames you too much to bear and a self-moderated forum to much work then close shop. Most of the community would be sad. But they can't demand addons from you either. It goes both ways. But i really think that there are lots more people respecting your work than flaming it and you should try to ignore those flamers.

[Munk 0]

Anyone thinking of learning to use O2, I'd suggest Brssebs Tutorials,

they're helping me loads

[Gollum1 0]

Right on, Benu. Agree with just about everything you said.

DM, don't say " the community" or "people" if you don't want to refer to the majority, even though you're talking about a very small minority.

[Guest]

I think this answers it all really:

Solution--->

[theavonlady 2]

I think this answers it all really:

Solution--->

Oh no you don't! I ain't fallin for that dancing badger site - again!

[dm 9]

Just to make this clear: i really do appreciate your work and i really understand your frustration about those flamers. It's just that i fear there is really not much we can do about it AND your way of phrasing it wasn't the best either.

Ok, an excellent post benu.

So, I should have been clearer as to how I initially phrased my post, I apologise for that.

As for your fears as to not being able to "do" anything about the flamers, there is plenty we CAN do about it. Just read back to Bobby's posts (about the monkeys, all be it not as savagely as that) Surely when the vast majority of people post/pm/email people saying "you're not big, you're not clever, and its not welcome here" would have an effect?

Quote[/b] ]I can't answer that one, but i can tell that you won't change the whole of humanity in the next few days.

Ok, I appreciate that I won't be able to have any affect, but what about US? Like I just said, surely an overwhelming majority will have an effect on the flamers?

Quote[/b] ]If you want to make the community a better place than try to read the most friendly possible meaning out of peoples post, taking into account their language problems

Yes, that IS true, but how is it possible to make a statement such as:

"This is shit, I can't believe I wasted my time with it"

into something positive? (I appreciate that the person HAS taken the time to bother downloading it, but thats about it)

Quote[/b] ]If you really wanted to do that you should see it through. Else it was just whining.

What do you think I'm doing now?  

Quote[/b] ]I can only speak for myself, but i try to be constructive in my posts. I did write some bug reports for bas addons btw, and i don't think any of them could be read as a flame. Iknow that i sometimes sound rude, but most of the time this is not because i flame someone but because people don't like an antithetic response if it not "sugared" with lots of please, maybe, thanks, etc.

And posts like that are FINE. Its the posts which start off by saying that addon xxx is completely shite, and that the addon maker should not have bothered. Thats the kind of posts that are totally un-necessary, and un-needed. And that is clearly NOT caused by a miss-interpretation of the English language.

Quote[/b] ]Make of this what you want. I respect your work, most of the community does. If you find the small part that flames you too much to bear and a self-moderated forum to much work then close shop. Most of the community would be sad. But they can't demand addons from you either. It goes both ways. But i really think that there are lots more people respecting your work than flaming it and you should try to ignore those flamers.

I actually make this post out to be one of the rare(ish) HIGHLY constructive posts, which clearly shows the posters point of view WITHOUT being rude or obscene about it. Its posts like your Benu that this thread intends to vastyly increase, and posts which are just ass kissing, or flameing that this topic intends to reduce (if not eliminate)

@Avon, the "solidarity" idea is an excellent one, if this could be in someway spread around the community that would be excellent. I can however see people "jumping on the band wagon" and sticking it in their sigs just because everyone else is (theres the 12 year old mentality again)

As a final point, I would like to point out, that the game is only part of it. The community is just as important as the game (in this day and age, with online MP being more and more popular) Just THINK how many more people would be attracted to the game because it has a reputation to have THE best and kindest community in the world. I read the "forums" pages in PC Gamer every month, and every month its the same old stories of people getting flamaed into the ground. If OFP appeared in there because the community was helpful, and contained few, if not no flamers, then popularity of the online play would sky rocket.

[theavonlady 2]

@Avon, the "solidarity" idea is an excellent one, if this could be in someway spread around the community that would be excellent. I can however see people "jumping on the band wagon" and sticking it in their sigs just because everyone else is (theres the 12 year old mentality again)

You can always tell a 12 year old. They go around with their IMG tags untucked in their sigs.

Seriously:

1. My guess is that most people placing such a solidarity icon in their sig are sincere about it.

2. It always appears in posts under any section of the forum, serving as a constant reminder of the attitude taken by most of the community.

3. A new forum regulation should be put into effect. Anyone who places this symbol in their sig and acts contrary to its meaning will have it immediately replaced by the moderators with the OFP fluffy bunny pic. Actually, besides PR'ing someone for this behavior if it gets to the point of flamebaiting, the moderators can also set the text under their forum avatar to 12 YEAR OLD ANTI-ADDON WHINER for all to see and take note of. Sort of a Mark Of <s>Kolgujev</s> Cain.

Now, can anyone whip up this image?

[MEDICUS 0]

I think this answers it all really:

Solution--->

Sorry, but i don't get it ... Badger??

edit: if others think my solidarity pic idea is a good one, would anyone else like to offer one up that's a bit less flashy than what's been submitted.

-> less flashy                            

Ok, I appreciate that I won't be able to have any affect, but what about US? Like I just said, surely an overwhelming majority will have an effect on the flamers?

Sorry, but is this really such a big problem, that the "community" has to be changed? Was just interested and visited a "CS-Forum" yesterday .... and you won't belive what's going on there. What i've read there is what i would call a "BAD BEHAVIOUR"!

Actually, besides PR'ing someone for this behavior if it gets to the point of flamebaiting, the moderators can also set the text under their forum avatar to 12 YEAR OLD ANTI-ADDON WHINER for all to see and take note of. Sort of a Mark Of Kolgujev Cain.

I think that's kind of childish, too. But perhaps it will work. And i think the main problem will be, that this "12 YEAR OLD ANTI-ADDON WHINER" will give a **** on that. That's my assessment.

hell, you wouldn't believe how difficult it can be to make exactly the statement you are thinking of in your native tongue in another language, with all the "connotational" stuff that is going on and the slangs people are using

That's my problem, too. I've to work a lot with my dictionary.

So i only can hope, that you all understand what i was trying to say. And that u don't missunderstand it.

Mfg MEDICUS