Marine assault pack

[ran 0]

The RPK gunner can also carry an RPG, while the SAW gunner cannot. The RPK is, essentially, a fully auto assault rifle with a larger magazine, whereas the SAW is a true light machinegun.

IMO that's a Bad Thing â„¢, because every squad needs an MG for supportive fire. Why do you think real life militaries use LMGs?

(Not aimed at you, Hellfish. )

tell that to the comm... red.... erm, russians .....

[AKM 0]

Quote[/b] ]Wolf 55 grain FMJBT from a 1:9 Bushmaster 16" after striking gel @ 2855 fps.

Fragmentation and wound volume are minimal, but I dont think your going to be able to fight much after this. And look what happened to the people that got hit in the U.S. by that sniper. I think you need to rethink your 2-8 round stroy.  

However - the rifleman in question was using a bushmaster rifle of some sorts - He was also firing from distances NOT exceeding 200 meters, at most, of which I do not have the data, but making a 200 meter shot is about the maximum range inside a metropolitarian area.

The "Story" in question is reported by Special Operation soldiers of American and British origin while using the M-4A1 carbine against targets in the Afghani mountain ranges, firing at around 2-300 meters. In many cases, they may have had suppressors fitted - which reduce the muzzle velocity even more than the M-4A1 already looses in comparison to a full-length M-16 series. Its not a story so much as some data I picked up. Apparently the M-4 fails to perform satisfactorily against targets in the Afghanistan AO.

After reading the past few posts, I'm thinking that the M-249 and the RPK-74M are more evenly matched now - but I'd still like to see a M-240G and a PKM - just for the larger, longer ranged 7.62x51mm killage. I suppose they both feed off of 100 round boxes, but I may be wrong with that in regards to the M-240G. Edit: By that, I mean I do not know what the box magazine capacity is for the M-240G. I am assuming its 100 rounds as well - I am also assuming it can be belt-fed, as can the PKM, but that is impractical. The PKM is 7.62x54mm too, excuse me.

AK

[earl 0]

The RPK gunner can also carry an RPG, while the SAW gunner cannot. The RPK is, essentially, a fully auto assault rifle with a larger magazine, whereas the SAW is a true light machinegun.

IMO that's a Bad Thing â„¢, because every squad needs an MG for supportive fire. Why do you think real life militaries use LMGs?

(Not aimed at you, Hellfish. )

@R71: LESS recoil than the SAW? How is that possible? I'm playing OFP on FDF mod with increased recoil and I can fire it like an assault rifle on full auto while standing up. Sure, I've heard that the real FN Minimi has very little recoil, but really... It's a super weapon, I hope the recoil is increased a bit.

I dont know if you would really call it more kick, but the m249 has a strange way to fire in this pack. Lets see if I can show you what I mean...

                                  hit

         M249=

                                  hit

         RPK=                   hit

If you fire 50 shots with the M249 25 will land high and 25 will land low. With the RPK all of the shots will land in one spot.

Recoil is probably something that would be worth looking at again. The SAW does do that pattern, and the reason is in the timing of the recoil vs. rate of fire (the gun seems to settle and then the muzzle climbs in a 2-round cycle... a slight adjustment of the recoil values might smooth it out).

I've barely even talked to Suchey since the pack was released, I think for the time being we are all quite happy to have this off our minds.

[AKM 0]

Yes. Although you did mention a booster pack - that set the majority of us off again, with dances of USMC and MORPEH in our heads.

AK

[Gollum1 0]

The RPK gunner can also carry an RPG, while the SAW gunner cannot. The RPK is, essentially, a fully auto assault rifle with a larger magazine, whereas the SAW is a true light machinegun.

IMO that's a Bad Thing â„¢, because every squad needs an MG for supportive fire. Why do you think real life militaries use LMGs?

(Not aimed at you, Hellfish. )

tell that to the comm... red.... erm, russians .....

Ah, got to get this cleared up :

The Russians in this addon should have an RPK with a larger magazine and higher recoil to make it more like an LMG, just like they mostly use larger mags and certainly have higher recoil IRL. My wish.

[AKM 0]

The RPK-74M showcased here is only commonly seen with the 45 round *Bananna* magazines - there may be a drum, but I have yet to see units using this in combat operations. The RPD will accept drum magazines however - I'm not sure if the RPK shown here will. The recoil is roughly the same, if not lower on this rifle - as it fires the same 5.45x39mm cartridge as the AK-74M.... but the RPK is heavier - so it may have less "felt" recoil. I still agree with you to an extent - when standing, I shouldn't be able to put two in the head of some target 250 meters downrange, I should at least be forced to aim for center mass. A bit more sight-wavering would be nice.

Hopefully that'll be construed as constructive criticism, which it was meant to be. Anyways, to the team who created this: Great work.

AK

[earl 0]

I doubt if you can find me enough combat photos of a drum mag on an RPK74 to add up to even 10% of the photos I have with 45rnd mags.  They simply aren't used--I don't think I've ever seen any.

I can only recall one photo of a 5.45x39mm drum being used in a real combat situation, on an AK74 and they didn't look like a regular unit.  I think there must be reliability problems with it.

The RPD uses linked ammo belts, the drum was just a container, no feed mechanism. The RPK (7.62x39mm) was seen often enough with a 75 rnd drum.

As mentioned, the RPK74 gunner can also carry RPG's, and being able to carry so many HE rockets gives this guy some very effective firepower.

[AKM 0]

Its roughly the same as being able to tag along a RPG, some grenades, a few HE rockets, and a heavy-barreled AK-74M with a 1P2N optical sight - very, very effective.

AK

[Donnervogel 0]

I have the same request as fin the RHS thread here.

If your going to update it could you allow standart BIS mags on your weapons?

Like standart BIS Ak74 Mags for AK 74 based weapons. That way we could use your units too with Mods that modify recoil values like FDF mod does. Your weapons are super accurate in FDF mod at the moment.

[Heatseeker 0]

Your weapons are super accurate in FDF mod at the moment.

The RNI guns seem more unstable/inacurate than the Marine ones, speacialy the AKS74u of the spetsnaz guys, thought it was a realistic balance because of the shorter barrel compared to AK74

The M16/M4/M249 seem more quiet, acurate and easy to shoot than the rni equivalents but i thought it was realistic that way...

[blackdog~ 0]

Your weapons are super accurate in FDF mod at the moment.

The RNI guns seem more unstable/inacurate than the Marine ones, speacialy the AKS74u of the spetsnaz guys, thought it was a realistic balance because of the shorter barrel compared to AK74

The M16/M4/M249 seem more quiet, acurate and easy to shoot than the rni equivalents but i thought it was realistic that way...

I think AK74M and M16 are pretty much balanced. The AK74SU is the outlier though, it's not as accurate as any of the other weapons in the pack.

[kroky 1]

Is there any chance to get the AI to use/fire the Javelin? Is any workaround possible?

[Donnervogel 0]

Your weapons are super accurate in FDF mod at the moment.

The RNI guns seem more unstable/inacurate than the Marine ones, speacialy the AKS74u of the spetsnaz guys, thought it was a realistic balance because of the shorter barrel compared to AK74

The M16/M4/M249 seem more quiet, acurate and easy to shoot than the rni equivalents but i thought it was realistic that way...

Are you speaking of the addon as a general now or the weapons when you use them with FDF-Mod?

I am happy with the values for the Addons. No Porblem there. It's just that when I run FDF-Mod (with edited config.bin) all standart units have very strong recoil as the finnish soldiers have. But this Addons has very accurate weapons because the the magazines have their own config file. I just request to add the BIS mags in the config of the weapons. Then I can equipp the Units with BIS mags in the editor. So I can keep those beautiful weapons and still have somewhat balanced troops in FDF mod. If they're not going to do it, it's just a pitty because I would have to equipp the soldiers with BIS weapons which obviously don't look nearly as good.

[Heatseeker 0]

Quote[/b] ] or the weapons when you use them with FDF-Mod?

Sry, i misread the FDF-Mod part of your post, i was refering to the addon only, i like the low recoil because it is more dificult to shoot acurately over long distance with these ironsights than with stock bis weapons so i believe the moders did a good balance here.

The sights look great, are acurate and very realistic but they also take plenty of visibility from the screen, if recoil was higher we wouldnt hit the side of a barn @ 200m.

I agree that the M249 could have a bit more recoil and/or dispersion though but what bothers me the most about the addon is the same has most other great addons, lack of quality SP missions .

[kroky 1]

After playing some missions with the MAP I must say that the SMAW soldiers are useless. tried to tell them to shoot any M113 or BMP or BMD or whatever but they are absolutely not able to hit a tank when in movement.

So I think it would be more balanced to add more accuracy to them.

Not to speak about the AI Javelin soldiers which are only there to be shot.

All in all its a very good pack but this two issues kill the joy in some missions.

[kroky 1]

@Nagual

have the same problem with your mission russian raid. Did you find out what causes the CTD?

Edit:

I DePBO'd your mission and when I load it from the editor it tells an error message:

No entry "config.bin/cfgVehicles.bas_islewreck6"

then black screen follows with the mission name: russian raid and after 3 or 4 minutes of loading time again CTD.

Any idea?

[AKM 0]

The AKS-74U is very innaccurate over ranges exceeding, dunno - in ideal conditions, probably 100 meters. Very short barrel, full size cartridge, hard recoil, as there is no recoil spring of any size inside it, et cetera. Whoever had it issued to them in real life probably dropped it for a AKS-74M as soon as possible. Also, the AKS-74U is fairly loud, and produces one HELL of a muzzle flash - the barrel is too short to allow the powder all the time it needs to burn up in the barrel and actually work towards propelling the projectile - it flashes in the air and it produced a massive ball of fire from a weapon of its size. Full length cartridge + short barrel = Big muzzle flash.

But yes, it does seem that the Armalite series rifles are.. dunno - quieter maybe than their Russian equivalents. I don't mind, because the sounds are bloody brilliant - but wouldn't the decible level be roughly the same for both sets of firearms - they fire a comparable cartridge. If it was a 7.62x51mm (FN FAL for example) versus a 5.45x39, I'd expect the 5.45x39 to be quieter in comparison. But it does seem a bit odd when you bring it to light doesn't it?

And - to whomever did all the sounds: Bloody brilliant job, it sounds excellent.

AK

[Cpt. FrostBite 0]

Quote[/b] ]Not to speak about the AI Javelin soldiers which are only there to be shot.

All in all its a very good pack but this two issues kill the joy in some missions.

In the readme it clearly states that the AI soldiers are not able to fire the Javalin.

[kroky 1]

@Cpt Frostbite

I know it's telling it in the Readme.

But it's a fact, that when the MSAW Soldiers dont shoot accurately and the AI is not able to shoot the Javelin you (the player) are the only one who can shoot any AT missiles with effect.

If I would be on the MTCO team I would suggest to find a compromise between realism and playability to enable AI to use the Javelin.

[Heatseeker 0]

If I would be on the MTCO team I would suggest to find a compromise between realism and playability to enable AI to use the Javelin.

I would assume that after working on this addon for a year they have done the best they could in the realism/playability department.

They have decided to make this addon MP oriented and to increase the realism in weapon handling, nothing we can do but to be gratefull for what we got right?

This way all can have very realistic units for MP and for SP mission designers could use anything from default bis RPG, law, at4 to other user made stuff like kegs rpg7, etc...

The javelin cant be fired from close cause it would miss and it is also a one shot tank killer, nobody would be safe out there if the bots would use this thingy .

[Gollum1 0]

Yes, that doesn't make sense: Why are the AI soo bad at firing the SMAW and RPG? Not only that, but they only have one EXTREMELY weak AT rocket and they don't use the HE rockets against infantry.

I wish that you could be able to choose if the AI fire at infantry or not, like in JAM.

[kroky 1]

Yes this addon is MP oriented.

It's sad that it does not perform well in SP. Like Gollum already stated they even dont use the HE against infantry. And the suggestion to use standard law or at4 from bis is like the suggestion to use the standard soldiers from bis. I mean if I would like to use MTCO units in a mission than it is a pain in the ass to change every soldier who is carrying a an AT launcher.

So even if they spend 1 year on it, from my point of view it is not finished.

Why not make a choosable AI MSAW/Javelin soldiers for MP/SP? Lets say they would fire MSAW/Javelin just normal in SP missions?

BAS did not screw this one up. Or look at the War Games mod which is one of the most realistic mods out there: AI soldiers can fire all the missiles correctly.

So MTCO is running a risk that this addon will only be used in MP, but will hardly find mission makers who implement them in their missions.

[Cpt. FrostBite 0]

The Javalin has the problem that any AI soldier who uses it will blow himself up bacause they aim too low. (problem also occurs with many players ). That's why suchey disabled the AI's ability to fire one.

The SMAW is indeed too inaccurate. Sometimes it will take just one missile to take out something, but other times they hit shit. I had ones (beta release RC#1) a team of 8 (!) SMAW gunners lined up on a hill. 300m out there was a russian T-72. In a folley attack of missiles these eight gunners were unable to hit the tanks. Not a single missile hit. It's more likely they scared the crew to death with all those missiles flying around, than that they really posed a threath.

In RC#2 (current version) this was tweaked a bit, but I agree it sometimes id still a terrible inaccurate weapon in the hands of the AI soldiers. But thank god on your knees that you've never seen blackdog fyring one

[Landwarrior87 0]

Yes this addon is MP oriented.

It's sad that it does not perform well in SP. Like Gollum already stated they even dont use the HE against infantry. And the suggestion to use standard law or at4 from bis is like the suggestion to use the standard soldiers from bis. I mean if I would like to use MTCO units in a mission than it is a pain in the ass to change every soldier who is carrying a an AT launcher.

So even if they spend 1 year on it, from my point of view it is not finished.

Why not make a choosable AI MSAW/Javelin soldiers for MP/SP? Lets say they would fire MSAW/Javelin just normal in SP missions?

BAS did not screw this one up. Or look at the War Games mod which is one of the most realistic mods out there: AI soldiers can fire all the missiles correctly.

So MTCO is running a risk that this addon will only be used in MP, but will hardly find mission makers who implement them in their missions.

oh how wrong you are.

[Lt_Damage 0]

Considering I never played SP, never played any of the campaign of OFP1 or Resistance if these units were not aimed more towards MP I would not be using them.

I make missions only for Multiplayer.

Fact is if you aren't playing MP you aren't really doing anything besides playing with yourself, and that'll make you go blind