Ecp released!

[MachoMan 0]

I have been hosting MP mission for quite some time on my feeble 128/768 con, and have indeed experienced drastic drops in framerate at the beginning of the map. After that, things were running as smoothly as ever.

I have to admit though that I haven't tested it with as many players as Lt. Damage has. I will try to write up a report as soon as me and my chums have tested MP ECP with larger amounts of players.

You're right, i've also noticed that myself, i've even had timeout messages, but after something like 15 seconds, the issue is usually resolved. We're currently looking into making the scripts a bit less costly in a "classified"   way

[MachoMan 0]

hey guys, i have some probs... cant start the CWC campaign with ECP, just get a wierd CTD, no error or anything... just CTD.

i just tested it, works fine on my pc!, seeing u had more problems, u may wanna wait until snYpir will release the installer file, wich will make sure all settings/folders/etc... are the way they should be.

[benu 1]

Sigh.. i'm sorry but you haven't tested enough for issues in MP. I know this because i'm sure if you noticed every single player getting 3 fps you would of at the very least put something on the website saying this version makes MP very laggy. It would not of taken extensive testing because it happens every single game as soon as the game starts.

And I will clarify, it is not about "turning effects down" we all run quite fast computers we know when the effects are a bit much. What I am talking about is as soon as the mission is started with ECP, without any action at all we get very low frame rate.

Well, we used ECP in MP since the beginning and i did not notice any fps loss at all. And neither did any of my players complain about fps loss. And i normally leave all settings to enabled except random weather and halo (and the experimental settings).

[Acecombat 0]

Sigh.. i'm sorry but you haven't tested enough for issues in MP. I know this because i'm sure if you noticed every single player getting 3 fps you would of at the very least put something on the website saying this version makes MP very laggy. It would not of taken extensive testing because it happens every single game as soon as the game starts.

And I will clarify, it is not about "turning effects down" we all run quite fast computers we know when the effects are a bit much. What I am talking about is as soon as the mission is started with ECP, without any action at all we get very low frame rate.

Well, we used ECP in MP since the beginning and i did not notice any fps loss at all. And neither did any of my players complain about fps loss. And i normally leave all settings to enabled except random weather and halo (and the experimental settings).

You must have exceptional PC's then filled with RAM or you folks must have your OFP's eye candy down , i have my LOD setting to the lowest maybe thats the cause?

[benu 1]

i don't know, i am absolutely an eye candy man, i most settings turned on and maxed out, i always use hisky and hi island textures. I don't have super fps to begin with, but i did not notice any considerable slowdown since ecp either...

[MSpencer 0]

BUG REPORT!!!

When installing DR, some sounds do not work concerning the tanks and tank explosions.

I'm using the DR config, and all DR sounds available for DL on your site. I reinstalled ECP, even re downloaded the DR sounds about 9 times.

My specs are wayyy over standard for ofp, so it can't be them. I've had some friends with the same problem too.

[RED 0]

@Lt_Damage: As Xawery stated, the ECP has to run through a bunch of scripts at the start of each mission. For example, all the units on the map have to pass through a script which checks which class it is and if it is in the exempt arrays. This process is the most CPU intensive, I do have an idea how to lower the lag form this though (basically put an option in to remove it)

With the current version of the ECP you will get lag at the start of the mission, obviously the more units you add, the more lag you will encounter. This lag will not last for very long, I would say at the most 30 seconds. We can remove a load of lag by reducing variable names (pointed out by bn880)

Anyway as snYpir said, this still is a Beta so will not be anywhere near perfect yet (but what ever is?) You are correct about the lack of MP testing though, we basically do not have the time for this. I have been out of the ECP loop for a couple of weeks for some reasons, but I will try to get some MP testing in soonish.

In short, don't loose faith yet mate

@Acecombat & benu: As always, cheers for the kind words

@MSpencer: Have you got the ECP DR addons 1 - 3? And the main DR addon?

RED

[KaRRiLLioN 0]

We use ECP 1.043 (still) all the time in MP, whether it be RTS or CTF, etc. and it works pretty well. The only problem I have is that sometimes some of the ECP settings that you can change in the config will change in MP. For example I set my ECP_Burn_Dis to .1, but while debugging in a MP game, I found it was 10. Maybe that var is Pub-var'd at some point in the game? This has happened on a couple of occasions.

My only complaint is those smoke cannisters that are left after a vehicle is deleted. It looks kinda strange. Otherwise it works great!

[RED 0]

There have been a load of MP fixes Karr, try the latest version out at some point. I can't remember if the smoking cannisters have been dealt with, I will do some tests.

Cheers,

RED

[CanadianTerror 0]

I just started using this and it's GREAT!

Thanks for the hard work in putting it together.

[BAM 0]

Thanks for making v1.1 of DR+ING ECP config

I have found one issue though - the newly added INQ smoke shell works fine with the smoke shells, but it also happens when you throw normal grenades too... so all my grenades are 'hissing!' lol ;P

BAM.

[Lt_Damage 0]

@Lt_Damage: As Xawery stated, the ECP has to run through a bunch of scripts at the start of each mission. For example, all the units on the map have to pass through a script which checks which class it is and if it is in the exempt arrays. This process is the most CPU intensive, I do have an idea how to lower the lag form this though (basically put an option in to remove it)

With the current version of the ECP you will get lag at the start of the mission, obviously the more units you add, the more lag you will encounter. This lag will not last for very long, I would say at the most 30 seconds. We can remove a load of lag by reducing variable names (pointed out by bn880)

Anyway as snYpir said, this still is a Beta so will not be anywhere near perfect yet (but what ever is?) You are correct about the lack of MP testing though, we basically do not have the time for this. I have been out of the ECP loop for a couple of weeks for some reasons, but I will try to get some MP testing in soonish.

In short, don't loose faith yet mate

@Acecombat & benu: As always, cheers for the kind words

@MSpencer: Have you got the ECP DR addons 1 - 3? And the main DR addon?

RED

I understand that, in fact I make missions where there is necessary lag at the beginning to init everything and have the units read into video memory. But if I made that mission and lag continued throughout the entire mission whether anything was happening or not then I would look further into it before putting it onto the server.

Anyway I think you will just have to see for yourself..

If you need an MP testing environment the server is available, I am quite happy to use ECP as long as you do testing as I am responsible for 30+ players crashing to desktop, as admin I just want things to go smoothly.

[kroky 1]

@BAM

I will have a look on the hissing bug for the grenades tomorrow.

It's quite hard to merge DR and INQ sounds as they interfere often. So most likely I will remove the hissing smoke shell sound from INQ.

[snYpir 0]

Ah LT Damage you are a constant source of ammusement.

Quote[/b] ]I can see a lot of you are quite bitter and protective as soon as someone says anything bad about it but the reality is, as Acecombat said, it has incredible performance problems which you haven't looked into before releasing it

I am the only bitter one on the team

Would you prefer we didn't release it until a final version? That is an option. I think that perhaps you are more than a little bit bitter yourself - were you dropped on your head as a child?

Quote[/b] ]Anyway I've had my say, a few of the more adept scripters among us are going to rip ECP apart and cut it down for MP, using one of the earlier more MP friendly releases so all is not lost

All is not lost while we still have you to rip ECP apart, true.

I look forward to seeing your MP friendly release. You probaly haven't realised the huge performance increases by the new blood, server-set variables for simulations, and the 100 or so bugfixes between now and then (including bugfixes to prevent cheating).

The other option is for you to simply wait a few weeks while we sort out the few remaining issues. Or you could help us out - what a novel idea!

*snYpir stomps off to take his bitter pills*

[snYpir 0]

*stomps back in*

Right, i've updated the text on the ECP page. It now reads:

The ECP is currently BETA. New features are constantly being added, and BETA testing continues. Expect regular updates! Given that it is BETA, don't be disappointed or angry if this product does not perform as you might expect! If this concerns you, simply wait for a later, stable release!

I didn't think I would have to go to this length, but here we are. We will be looking to change the license agreement in a future version as well to prevent people like LT Damage from starting an 'ECP modification' (a mod to a mod) which will undoubtably contain bugs. I thought that open source would work but clearly it will not.

[KJAM 0]

thanks guys for the ECP and DR, this is a MUST for anybody who likes sp mission, its good enough to get me playing the sp missions again instead of arsing around in the editor, hehe, i think BIS should give you a BIG pat on the back as you gave OFP a new lease of life

[Lt_Damage 0]

*stomps back in*

Right, i've updated the text on the ECP page. It now reads:

The ECP is currently BETA. New features are constantly being added, and BETA testing continues. Expect regular updates! Given that it is BETA, don't be disappointed or angry if this product does not perform as you might expect! If this concerns you, simply wait for a later, stable release!

I didn't think I would have to go to this length, but here we are. We will be looking to change the license agreement in a future version as well to prevent people like LT Damage from starting an 'ECP modification' (a mod to a mod) which will undoubtably contain bugs. I thought that open source would work but clearly it will not.

I'm not changing ECP and releasing some MP version, that's a bit silly, ECP is your baby, you guys have worked hard for it I am just considering looking at using an earlier version that was MP friendly, like 1.043 or 1.055 for use on the server just among ourselves.

At least until you guys get your MP testing back on track then all is cool.

[[aps]gnat 28]

Reminds me of a western movie where half the packed saloon has guns pulled, waiting for the first one to pull the trigger .... and the other half are just hiding under tables ! lol

Sorry, anyway.

I enjoy (very very very very much) ECP on both MP and SP.

Lovely work boys (clap, clap)

BUT now ....... what the friggin hell did you do to MP play between 1.055 and 1.057 ?

Because 1.055 WAS all sweet.

I sort of agree with Damage's point; if you are concentration on SP play, @ the next release do a 20min MP test and then make a statment in the readme as to it apparent performace.

That way big bunchs of ppl will not be pissed off major when an unsuspecting Server Admin does an upgrade and all the players go south ! Pre-warned is pre-armed.

See ... there's the difference.

SP = one user = 1 install = only one ("only got myself to blame") anoyed person

MP = many users (using AutoAddon's) = many installs = many "Whos to blame?!"

Now excuse me while I crawl back under the table and find my drink!

[snYpir 0]

Quote[/b] ]BUT now ....... what the friggin hell did you do to MP play between 1.055 and 1.057 ?

Because 1.055 WAS all sweet.

Nothing. However, there was some work done on the 'client' side of the mod that may have increased framerate on certain missions.

'Effects' are all client side - there is no MP comms at all except for when a vehicle explodes, burns or a 'man' unit is hit - and this has all been the same since version zero.

Simulations are a little more MP intensive - weather, timed grenades, explosion simulation etc but still it is nothing to write home about.

I can assure you that I have been doing MP testing with MP. I tested 1.057 again on a 5 vs 5 LAN game last week, and 5 of the machines were 1 GHz P3's. Granted we were playing CTF, but if we were playing on a big combined arms mission I am sure that there would be just as much lag in MP and in SP.

Until the next release anyway

In the next release we have implemented level of detail (as an option, of course) meaning that effects will only occur if the player is in range to see them. This should fix many of the current slowdown problems on big missions.

There is this perception that the ECP goes into some sort of mega-intensive MP code when playing in MP - and this simply is not the case. I have been coding MP in OFP for a couple of years and where client side scripting is concerned there is no need for MP code.

I don't mind constructive critism - but I don't like people coming into a public forum making sweeping statements about things they don't understand. Check the code if you like - we are open source for awhile yet - apart from an initial publicvariable burst MP code is hard to find.

Additionally, it takes two seconds to turn down settings via the ECP settings dialog. The point has been raised that 'if you can't see the effects, what is the point?' Well, we've designed ECP aiming for the following override settings:

Low - P4 1.5 GHz or lower

Medium - P4 1.5 GHz to 2.5 GHz

High - P4 2.5 GHz or faster

It is a fact that your computer will always have limits. By adding features (especially particle systems) you will get lag - it is going to happen. We can only do so much as coders - eventually it is up to the user (you guys) to set the correct settings. We have sliders there as well - just turn blood down, for example, not off!

By default ECP is set about half way between medium and high to show off all of the capabilities. I am never suprised when people with P3's email me complaining about lag.

I do apologise for not making this sort of information (about the correct settings) more available, but the readme is pretty clear as is the settings dialog. In future releases i will set the ECP to around 'medium' by default I think.

I like open beta testing - generally it works well. ECP is different to most mods because it is very experimental. We are doing things that BIS never did (they could of, but they chose not to). Eventually we will get there, but it is good feedback we need in this forum not pointless whingeing. Good feedback involves more than simply complaining - I would love it for example if some of you MP dudes could try turning certain effects off in MP and seeing if this helps the lag (at least then we'll know if it is a client side issue or not).

I like to get things out there even though it is BETA - functionality like the Editor Enhancement is useless to people if they have to wait 6 months for it.

So, I am going to get a beer from the bar. Get out from under your tables people! Grumpy old snYpir is sorry he tried to start a fight in the pub

[snYpir 0]

In another step towards eventual professionalism we now have an ECP installer. I went into overdrive to get this done because 75% of all ECP problems were install-related.

The new installer is downloadable from the ECP page:

http://www.ofpec.com/editors/ecfg

At the moment we have installers for the following:

[*]ECP core

[*]DR config

[*]INQ config

An installer for the DR addons is uploading right now, should be ready by tomorrow morning.

The idea is simple - download the new core installer when the next version is released (1.06?), and it will update or install as required. Then download the new config and install it as well.

Now this is the tricky bit...

... the next time you download the ECP core the new INQ/DR/default config will be installed automatically. From then on all you ever have to do is download the new core installer, and never have to worry about manually installing configs again.

I have tested the core installer, but I would appreciate someone trying it for me just so I know it works before we use it to pack the new version. You don't have to delete your exising ECP folder, the installer will go into update mode and bob's your uncle. It will even backup your existing settings files.

This is not a new version - just the current version (1.057) in a new installer, so keep your panties on y'all.

[andersson 285]

Quote[/b] ]- we are open source for awhile yet -

That makes me worried... I was hoping for an open source ECP so I could add addon-units as default OFP-soldiers.

So I hope that You will release an opensource final ECP. I dont see why you wouldnt, peoples whining about lag and whatever isnt related to the fact that its open source. Or am I wrong?

Its a good idea to set the default settings lower so people that just installs the mod and plays without taking the time to read the readme and adjust the settings for their computer dont get so much lag.

Looking forward for the final version (hopefully an open source version). Excellent work!!!

[Dwarden 1125]

Quote[/b] ]- we are open source for awhile yet -

That makes me worried... I was hoping for an open source ECP so I could add addon-units as default OFP-soldiers.

So I hope that You will release an opensource final ECP. I dont see why you wouldnt, peoples whining about lag and whatever isnt related to the fact that its open source. Or am I wrong?

Its a good idea to set the default settings lower so people that just installs the mod and plays without taking the time to read the readme and adjust the settings for their computer dont get so much lag.

Looking forward for the final version (hopefully an open source version). Excellent work!!!

This bring me at interesant thought,

what about open / user contributed "plugins" which implements improvements / workaround / fixes / update for certain units / addons which aren't directly in ECP.

Also ECP authors can always take these fixes/workarounds and implement them directly into ECP self.

Sort of plugin system all for all

[Lt_Damage 0]

Holy crap that sounds awesome, that way say if you don't like a certain script, e.g if you like one dust script better than another you choose it, or if you think one sort of fire looks better etc.. very cool idea.

[MachoMan 0]

Holy crap that sounds awesome, that way say if you don't like a certain script, e.g if you like one dust script better than another you choose it, or if you think one sort of fire looks better etc.. very cool idea.

U can already do this, all u need is the dev version, or un-pbo any version, and replace the scripts or add new ones, this requires virtualy no tallents

[Lt_Damage 0]

We aren't whinging, we are trying to report an important issue, an entire server of players did not just up and decide we didn't want to play with ECP anymore, we enjoyed the enhanced gameplay. We turned it off because we HAD to, we could not play with it.

So at the end of the day when you are done calling us whingers.. do other future MP players who will use it a favour, test it in a proper dedicated server environment. More than 5 players, test it with 20-30, and you will find the problem. I do not care as we have all agreed to stop using ECP from now on, it won't matter to us, but as admin I know the 5 days of hell i had to go through with players asking me why they crashed to desktop every time they played (1.051), so for other admin's sanity take the MP testing seriously.

As Gnat said, it is 1 singleplayer person by himself who will experience an issue, however with MP it can be 30 players simultaneously whether they run ECP or not.

Regards,