High detail weapon pack released!

[theavonlady 2]

yeah but there are also users who dont have 2Ghz  

Not arguing. I'm curious how it runs on a lower system.

Keep in mind that the original Battlefields mission's suggested minimum specs are 1Ghz with OFP's standard weapons.

[dm 9]

...It plays OK on my 2ghz 512MB RAM 64MB Video PC...

This is the sort of thing that I mean...

People with killer machines like yours allways say "it plays ok on this..."

Now I dont have a machine like that. I'm on AMD K6-2 500 MHz, 256 RAM, 32 meg TNT2 Gfx card...

This is a point we take very seriously at BAS, just because there are a few lucky people out there with machines that could run the country, you must remember that the vast majority of people play on specs that are not too dissimilar to mine.

For this reason, all the BAS goodies are tested on my computer, and Vixers (who ruus a similar spec) to ensure that they are not gonna kill the low enders. Sure they cause some lag, but thats what good LODs are for. And, if you bothered to read that JEPG better than PAC thread, you would see that whilst JPEG offers much better visual quality, it requires the CPU to run the decoding format, so at long distance the JPEG textures will be killing the CPU.

It is a very difficult situation. If you make models for the top end specs, then you alienate the low end users (who are, to be honest the majority) Or if you make low poly models, you are penalising the higher end users for having faster machines... This is a consideration a lot of addonmakers over look, and quite often they do alienate the low end users, purely because they are ignorant to the fact that not everyone has a PC as powerful as theirs...

What you must consider Avon, is the WIDER community, most of the time you seem to do a good job at that... but that last post... hmmmm....

[theavonlady 2]

What you must consider Avon, is the WIDER community, most of the time you seem to do a good job at that... but that last post...   hmmmm....

No problem. Since my PC is overqualified, I have the opposite difficulty of gauging what effect an addon like this would have on a rinky dinky PC, like yours.

j/k

[PFC_Mike 2]

I haven't seen any mention of the missing rocket texture on the ammo crate.

[dm 9]

Thats exactly my point Avon... A lot of the Addon makers with big 'ole PC's dont appreciate us low enders.

For example - Cat's Afgan Island. I know its only beta, but due to the size and number of objects its just a lag fest... not a hope in hell of playing a mission on it...

People need to consider both ends of the spectrum in order to create a good addon. And I'm afraid this one (the weapons) only likes the high enders...

[Firestarter 0]

I think its the best to have both alternatives: weapons with high quality and weapons for ppl with older pcs. by the way: i dont think that a 500mhz pc is representing the community better as the 2ghz pc of avon. maybe most players will have pc´s with more than 1000mhz. how big must a pc be at all for hdw´s? (omg, that sounds like very bad english...sry)

[dm 9]

Thats the point Firestarter. You need to make addons that will work well on the 500MHz machines, yet still look the mutts nuts on the top end machines. Its tricky to do, but very achievable if you put the effort in.

[CoolCarlos2002 2]

Thats the point Firestarter. You need to make addons that will work well on the 500MHz machines, yet still look the mutts nuts on the top end machines. Its tricky to do, but very achievable if you put the effort in.

I suggest making Addons OFP official specs

Minimal:

P II 400

64 mb ram

16mb gfx card ram

Recommended:

Pentium III 600

128 mb ram

3d gfx 32 mb ram

[ebud 18]

I think I've replied to this about 5 times, then backed out as it just never sounded nice.

I think part of the issue some folks are having with this, then masking it by talking about system specs is that fact that for an addon maker this is "cheating" It's partly out of jealousy. They look amazing, and there are very few people working in OFP that can match that level of quality and detail. There are a few, and now that the bar has been raised, I think that people are going to take a closer look at what they are releasing. Even if they can, they usually will lower the detail and textures quite bit to make them playable. Hell, I wish I could find the time to make addons this nice

I think as an addon maker I personally think it's much better to make something half this good and have it be your own work. That being said, I still have nothing but respect of Inquisitor for porting these over, I know it took more than 10 minutes I'm sure. I've done a lot of ports from other games as well. Things such as maps from hidden and dangerous to see how they work in o2, textures from other games, CS weapons, Ghost Recon player models working in-game. I just don't release much of it because I never made them. To most addon makers porting over the best weapons and textures from another game is a slap in the face to all of the others that try to make their own work, then fall a bit short of this level of quality. I've done a bit of this in small areas such as plants for islands, but nothing on this scale. Literally anyone can import them in and get them working in-game, but I guess it does still take a lot of work to make lods, get permission from the authors, size everything correctly, etc etc.

So, I really have no other objection to them other than simple jealousy And the fact that they really could be optimized a lot more for lower end systems like I've posted before.

[Jinef 2]

Well i have an AMD 2400 XP and 512mb, it started getting jerky after there was 3 squads on each side with inq weapons on nogova view distance at 1300 metres.

[Commander-598 0]

My specs:

Pentium 4 2.40Ghz

512MB PC1066 RDRAM

128MB ATI Radeon 9700 TX(Dell Only)

120GB HD

I fixed up my Data3D pbo and played Battlefields(The original. with no problems other than the Grenadiers still having the original BIS M16 w/M203.(The M4A1 SD with M203, just wouldn't fit with a regular unit).

[dinger 1]

First off, let me state unequivocally that the K6-2 500 is a turd of a processor, and actually falls below the minimum specs for ofp 1 (which wants a pentium II - 400. check your benchmarks, folks).

That said, the philosophical problem with addons and missions boils down to this:

a) in the time since the release of the original game, the performance of the average rig increases. And people with top-end rigs want to do things with the game that the designers avoided because of CPU-load issues. So people make addons and missions that go beyond the specs.

b) but as deadmeat points out, to gain widespread acceptance, an addon or mission needs to run well on a variety of platforms.

c) yet, as is plainly evident, people only want cool-looking and -working addons.

d) many amateurs don't consider the impact on high- and low-end machines. For the record, we're all amateurs here. (well except for those of us whose stuff get repackaged and sold)

The quickest way to a pretty addon is a bunch of polys and a mediocre but high-resolution texture. It looks really pretty and works fine on desert island all by itself.

So when you build an addon or behaviour, look at the market:

A) Is it for your own use? Then do whatever you like. Give it as many polys and as big textures as you want. Steal whatever you want.

B) Is it an addon for the OFP Addon community? Look at the BIS forums. Everybody's looking for addons and nobody's looking for missions. What do all these people do? as far as I can tell, they play with the latest toys, but don't use them in missions or anything. If it's for this group, make sure it's your own, or you have permission to distribute other people's material, and go ahead and release it.

C) Is it for single-player missions? Before releasing it, at least build a "mockup" of such a mission and shop it around. How does it work under load?

D) Multiplayer? Again, be sure and do lots of testing.

and don't be tempted to let stuff creep in. Eliminate polys -- don't add them. Use textures instead of faces. And test test test.

And if you're going to distribute something produced by someone else -- a script, a model, a picture, a sound -- be sure and A) obtain the author's permission and B) give them adequate credit.

neither step is optional. A) is legally required these days. and B) -- well, the more people you thank the better your own work appears to the outside world.

And if you ever sell anything I wrote to anybody, and I find out about it, do not expect me to be anything but ruthless in exacting compensation.

[Cpt. FrostBite 0]

""B) Is it an addon for the OFP Addon community? Look at the BIS forums. Everybody's looking for addons and nobody's looking for missions. What do all these people do? as far as I can tell, they play with the latest toys, but don't use them in missions or anything. If it's for this group, make sure it's your own, or you have permission to distribute other people's material, and go ahead and release it.

""

I make my own mission for the addons. So it's worth testing before releasing it. Becides many people indeed use the addons in MP (as you mentioned). It's not like we just play with the latest toy and trow it away when there's a new one (unless it's a better version of the same). I used some (by current standards) low-quality addons like SEB-delta's for a very long time (actually, I only stopped using them after BAS released theirs). And I had a lot of fun with these. There is large group that will support an addon and use it in many ways. But if you really think we just play with it for a week and because of that you only make it for high-end PC's; Than you better keep your addon and don't release it at all.

Sure, you can't expect people to make addons that are for the min specs of the original game, but there's a big gap between the min specs and 2.4gh PC's.

I love the pack but it's just too demanding for my machine.

(or maybe I should stop making battlefield-type mission with it)

[PFC_Mike 2]

How about making different grenades for east and west?

BTW, the US no longer uses the "pineapple" grenades, the current M67 is a sphere.

In future releases, I think it would be better not to arm the troops with pistols.

[blackdog~ 0]

Sorry about site downtime. Bandwidth is reset on the end of the month...

[dm 9]

Indeed... I think that both Dinger and Cpt.Frostbite make valid points.

The one I will hang on is

Quote[/b] ]Sure, you can't expect people to make addons that are for the min specs of the original game, but there's a big gap between the min specs and 2.4gh PC's.

Couldnt have said it better myself.

That is why LODs are so important...

Anyhoo - Ebud, I'm not jealous, because I am "ethically" opposed to the way these addons have been made. Indeed, kudos to Inquisitor, and credit where it is due, these are some fine looking guns. Dunno what they sound like, cos they'll prolly give my old heap a heart attack...

But, all in all, I still think that porting weapons has its major drawbacks. Yes they can be combatted, but until I see a ported weapon, which has decent LODs, and decent textures (within the limits of paa and pac - but i've seen it done, so it must be possible) I will stand my ground, in not likeing the ports...

Oh, and yeah... I do agree on the whole cheating thing...

[dinger 1]

@Frostbite: I hear you, but I still maintain there's a group out there who want toys, regardless of their contribution to gameplay.

@Deadmeat: Yeah, that's what I was aiming at saying:

it's really difficult, when you're living with a script, a 3d model, or a texture, to think of it in terms of "how will it work in a mission".  But you have to let this notion drive your development.  Anybody can develop a sweet addon with unlimited resources.  The trick is in squeezing the most out of the least.

and LODs are very important.  If you've got a sweet M16, great.  But if that sweet M16 is gonna cost me 2000 polys and 2048x2048 textures at 1000 meters range, forget it.

[dm 9]

Exactly Dinger... I've been doing my nut in over a few models recently... and the MH-60... crazy... BUT, I remind myself, that its all in the aid of the addon being USEABLE, and not end up as one of those "mess with it once or twice in the editor" jobs...

Hell, if we didnt have to worry about how it would work in missions, and during intense play with lots of other models, making addons would be a whole lot easier...

The Rangers and Deltas for example. The weapons are not great, we know that, you know that. The aim was to make a sweet pack, that was accurate and PLAYABLE. Same as the Nam Pack 2. It still rules, even if the models are lower poly, and the textures are not so perfect (down to the last stitch or rivet) but its PLAYABLE... very very playable.

[miles teg 1]

Yup.  The SEB Nam pack I still think is the most amazing addon pack I've played so far.  Evertime I play that mod I feel like I'm playing a new game.  It's really incredible even if it's not the fanciest mod out there.  Likewise the BAS Ranger/Delta are great even if the weapons could be better.  The weapons are still not bad at all and overall look, sound, and perform fairly well.  

Chris G.

aka-Miles Teg<GD>

[ebud 18]

Anyhoo - Ebud, I'm not jealous, because I am "ethically" opposed to the way these addons have been made. Indeed, kudos to Inquisitor, and credit where it is due, these are some fine looking guns. Dunno what they sound like, cos they'll prolly give my old heap a heart attack...

DM... wasn't talking about anyone by name, just a feeling I get partly based on my own feelings. I know you do good work.... hmmmmm guess I was just thinking out loud again.

Now if he can do one better and get better unit models into the game

[-SoV- 0]

ok i dont feel like flipin thru 10 pages here to see if anyone noticed.. but if you take the M4 (unslienced) and pick up an M4SD mag.. load it in your gun.. a silencer magicly appers on the gun. very very very very clever indeed my freind

[GoOB 0]

I like these guns and all but i must say a "hand made" one would feel much more genuine. You did a great work Inquisitor, i couldn't have done it myself. And i also want to express my respect for those who do port their guns, but i would rather have the guns made by the author him/herself.

In the words of Sole "It takes the fun part out of editing and creating, its like love... creating something from scratch is done with love, converting something is because you want the end result... its whore-ism" Again kudos for the guns, they are nice.

[Skaven 0]

I really don't see the point in this discussion, I've told you guys to be carefull with the POLYS,LODS and TEXTURES when using CS weapons, cause they will scre* your game.

From what I saw so far this weapons do need a lot of work to be at least playable.

A lot of guys defend that we should use them cause they are perfect and so on, well I agree with it, perssonaly I have 75 CS weapons in my computer, however I never released them because of two things:

1 I never release something where I didn't at least worked 75% to 90% of it or upon a request to release something by the author as I did with UCEE after his request.

2 Because the CS Models will scre* your game unless you spend a LOT OF TIME making them playable.

Inquisitor decided to give you guys the chance to have some very nice weapons in your game, well I respect that it's a decision, however be careful cause this weapons will indeed LAG your game a lot, perssonaly I have a very fast computer and I had to spend a lot of time working on my CS weapon's LODS cause the game was lagging like shi*.

It's all a question of having or not having a good computer, if you have a good one, than I say go for it, it's worse it as long as you don't use many at the same time, if you have a slow computer than forget it it's not worth it.

About BAS using CS weapons well it's redicoulous, at BAS we ALWAYS worry about all the community including slow and fast computers owners.

[PFC_Mike 2]

Seriously...consider just how cleverly these weapons have been coded. The only bug in the entire pack is a missing texture on the ammo table.

[Skaven 0]

Mate I'm not questioning the work it gave, if you ask me the worked it gave compared to the work the CS guys had, than I say 4 per cent no more,I know cause I have 75 of them

All I'm saying is, the weapons are nice but be carefull, cause the lods and textures ain't the best for ofp, just that