Game physics

[Jinef 2]

Well, excuse me for not having abundant knowledge of what bullets do when they enter people's bodies, however I feel what is being discussed now is too complex for a computer game.

What I don't like about the current system is how the bullet damage value affects the size of the hole in the ground and dust that is kicked up, seperate these values and make bullets more customisable and I am happy. Also I thought 5.56 was meant to maim and not kill, it removes soldier from the fighting as they have to care for wounded comrades.

[xawery 0]

Baron Hurlothrumbo IIX:

Quote[/b] ]I think a few people meant 7.62 NATO rather than 7.62 russian.

There is little difference, only that the NATO version starts to tumble earlier on. The yaw is the same.

On a sidenote, my original remarks were referring to the WGL mod, where (AFAIK) the 7.62 is only applied to the AK. But perhaps that has changed.

Here's an image of the 7.62 NATO wound pattern:

Quote[/b] ]Anyway, my only objection was where it seemed that you were claiming a bullet would knock someone down, which is total movie myth. People fall down from the shock of being shot, not from the energy transferred to them from the round, unless its a much larger round than 5.56.

I agree, however, a 7.62 possesses enough area pressure to knock someone down if it hits him in, let's say, the chest. Simple leverage.

Quote[/b] ]Edit:

and US soldiers are using captured AKs because they can get ammunition for them a LOT more easily than they can get ammunition for their own weapons.

Amongst other things. The fact that the AK does not jam as easily as the M4 also helps.

Jinef:

Quote[/b] ]Well, excuse me for not having abundant knowledge of what bullets do when they enter people's bodies, however I feel what is being discussed now is too complex for a computer game.

Ignorance is not an excuse (please, PLEASE note the smiley!) But you're right - this is far too complex to model in a computer game. Nor was that the point of my original post. I'm just trying to show people that the momentum of a round is not the single factor influencing damage done to tissue.

Quote[/b] ]Also I thought 5.56 was meant to maim and not kill, it removes soldier from the fighting as they have to care for wounded comrades.

This was a myth propagated by the designer of the M885 round (and WGL designers). Army officials and doctor's reports contradict this.

regards,

X.

[Madus_Maximus 0]

And people who use the ammunition contractict the doctors and Army officials. Just recently in Isreal (I think), anyway where-ever it was, some guy was killed execution style with an M16A2 point blank range in the head. 2 shots had to be fired, 1 caused some nice damage, but did not kill him, the second was fatal. Now, a 7.62 would literally blow his skull apart (sorry for being graphic). Also in Iraq, soldiers often report of having to shoot people 5-6 times to drop them with their 5.56 weapons. They're currently fielding 6.8mm in some companies to see its effects, and they're much more promising than the 5.56. 5.56 was originally designed for huting small game such as birds and deer, it's a civilian round. The US military used it in their AR-15 (became the M16) because it was readily available. All the people I know who have weapons training (I have friends and relitives in the army) say the round is totally inadequate.

Back on topic, methinks ragdoll (only with stiffer joints so you get no stupid limp limbs when your killed and fly into the air) would be a nice addition, and a similar physics system to Far Cry with collisions and so on.

[Wilco 944]

I'd love to see some IL2 Sturmovik plane and helo physics, then mix that in with some real nice ragdoll effect, top it off with some nice vehicle physics from Far Cry or even Stalker.

'Nuff said

[Norris 0]

Quote[/b] ]Anyway, my only objection was where it seemed that you were claiming a bullet would knock someone down, which is total movie myth. People fall down from the shock of being shot, not from the energy transferred to them from the round, unless its a much larger round than 5.56.

I agree, however, a 7.62 possesses enough area pressure to knock someone down if it hits him in, let's say, the chest. Simple leverage.

Well you'd need a much higher lever than the chest. ;) Bullets cannot knock you off your feet, even the .50 caliber doesn't.

[bucket man 2]

Oh yes they do. I saw footage of Iraqi militant shot with SAW. He fell to the ground and tried to get up when another burst hit him and he died.

[Baron Hurlothrumbo IIX 0]

Oh yes they do. I saw footage of Iraqi militant shot with SAW. He fell to the ground and tried to get up when another burst hit him and he died.

No, they don't. He *DIED* (/lost consciousness) - he wasn't knocked down by the force of one, oreven several rounds.

[Balschoiw 0]

To illustrate the benefits of a 7.62NATO I only tell you one example:

A soldier with a 5.56 is hiding behind a little tree.

What does the soldier with a 7.62NATO bullet do ?

He fires straight through the tree and kills him.

What could the 5.56 guy do ? He cannot shoot through the tree and even rough grass will influence the flightpath of his bullet.

If I had the choice I´d go back to 7.62NATO but you don´t always need powerful ammo like that. High velocity ammo may be good for shock purposes but it fails when it hits minor objects or vegetation in the way. And yes I´ve tested that a lot

[Baron Hurlothrumbo IIX 0]

There are definitely benefits to using larger caliber ammunition, however the 'knock down effect' is pure movie myth.

Killing power isn't.

[Jinef 2]

I'm starting to feel sick reading this thread ..

IL2 Physics - oh sooooooo gooooooodddd

[bedlam 0]

the guy wont fly away when hit..

but he would definetly feel a larger force hitting him with 7.62 then with 5.56.

btw grenades dont produce large fireballs when they blow up either. (hollywood)

[TDogg 0]

True WGL has a good realistic mod. Grenades in WG is almost real. Check it out.

[paelleon 0]

Hi to you all! Ok, let me think:

Player movements needs: leaning around corners, swimming (must drop all magazines?), jumping. The rest are just perfect right now.

Aircrafts are quite difficult to keep in the air, there' too little lift, it's hard to dive-strafe precisely onto a target. An aiming reticle for ungiuded bombs will be appreciated (CCIP in flight simulators).

Vehicle cannot be detached from the ground. I wish to load a BMD into a Mi-26!!! Parachuting vehicles will improve the number of different mission that can be made.

Ehm....is speaking of artillery and indirect fire here out of topic?

[HKFlash 9]

To illustrate the benefits of a 7.62NATO I only tell you one example:

A soldier with a 5.56 is hiding behind a little tree.

What does the soldier with a 7.62NATO bullet do ?

He fires straight through the tree and kills him.

What could the 5.56 guy do ? He cannot shoot through the tree and even rough grass will influence the flightpath of his bullet.

If I had the choice I´d go back to 7.62NATO but you don´t always need powerful ammo like that. High velocity ammo may be good for shock purposes but it fails when it hits minor objects or vegetation in the way. And yes I´ve tested that a lot

Personnaly I think the 5.56 ammo is getting obsolete. What is needed today is something between 5.56 and 7.62.

[TDogg 0]

U.S. Army already has 6.8mm spc that they might use for the new M8.

[Baron Hurlothrumbo IIX 0]

British army had 6.5mm ammo they were going to use until the Americans forced all of Nato to use 5.56.....

[funnyguy1 0]

ammo? I jus fought that`s physics thread ...

maybe somebody change topic to "Britney Spears"?

all that ammo stuff...It`ll be nice to see it in OPF2.

[Balschoiw 0]

Quote[/b] ]Personnaly I think the 5.56 ammo is getting obsolete. What is needed today is something between 5.56 and 7.62.

In fact and spoken from the chest I would love to go back to 7.62 again. I liked that ammo and I liked the holes. It´s a great caliber.

5.56 is just not my way of shooting.

But then again, it also has it´s good sides.

[ebns72 0]

If there is one area this game needs physics improvement IMO its vehicles. Flying in this game is very unrealsitic-there is too much inertia. Also, something I find extremely annoying is the way vehicles come to a complete halt if they hit something-I'd like to see them bounce or maybe flip over.

[paelleon 0]

Quote[/b] ]Personnaly I think the 5.56 ammo is getting obsolete. What is needed today is something between 5.56 and 7.62.

In fact and spoken from the chest I would love to go back to 7.62 again. I liked that ammo and I liked the holes. It´s a great caliber.

5.56 is just not my way of shooting.

But then again, it also has it´s good sides.

I read that US Special Forces in Irak are receiving modified M4 carabines firing the 7.62x39 soviet (why don't they simply use the mighty AK-47?). This because of the poor stopping power of the 5.56x45. Russian Spetznatz in Grozny already used the AKM-47 instead of the AK-74.

Is the 7.62 better only in urban combat?

[PLRSniper 3]

More cool functions for OFP would be nice...

Like hand brakes for cars (If you forget them the car will roll off and NOT bounce against a wall but actually damage itself and the wall accordingly)

Planes should be able to loose a wing and still be able to manuever until its inevideble crash...

Ragdolls are a must of every new game... that all i can say...

But then we have Semi-Ragdoll's!

Yes that's you, if you are hit by I.E a rolling tire you should fall to the ground (Like a ragdoll with muscles)

If you fall down a cliff your cameraangle will tumble with your head...

If you fall through air you will fall irradically...

Also if you get hit in the leg you should limb.

And you should be able to loose a leg so you need to jump around on one leg (Not that you would when blood is pouring out of your veins but anyways)

If you get hit by a 7.62 mm round in the head your teammates should be able to see the missing brainsubstance?

If you are drunk or on morphine I.E you should have problems with balance and fall to the ground often?

If a bomb blows off next to you without injuring you should still feel the effects... Red eyes, nosebleeding, ringing ears and balancing problems.

If you are hit by a car you should bump off it instead of just going from 0 to 100 in 0 seconds and then going through the jeep when your body gets "transparent"...

Blah blah blah

One more thing...

5.56mm is not near as fun as 7.62mm...

NOT TO MENTION 12.7 MM !

Or Bofors "Haubits77" Shotgun!

The haubits is a 155 mm artillery unit that can be loaded with ?? x 10 mm round led bullets and fired right forward 100 to 400 meters leaving a big trail of "mashed potatoes"!

Nuff said about calibres now?...

[Longjocks 0]

If you are drunk or on morphine I.E you should have problems with balance and fall to the ground often?

Why not just drink a dozen beers before you play? You'll certainly be simulating the effects that way.

[shinRaiden 0]

Something that just came to mind is how come turrets spin completely independent of the chassis?

How about making the turret direction an offset of the vehicle, like helicopter mg's?

[USSRsniper 0]

I dont want cars to fly when tanks hits it. i want to be able to drive over the car

[BoweryBaker 0]

pistol weight would mean you can turn and aim at people faster, quicker response time with a pistol than a rifle probably, which would be better for close quarters. A rifle would probably turn slower as you aim it maybe. That's pretty real, so you could probably add that to OFP2.