Tanks DLC: Premium Content Discussion

[Hvymtal 1251]

Quote

 

08-03-2018 

No new EXEs

Size: ~1.5 GB 

 

DATA 

Added: T-140 Angara Main Battle Tank* 

Added: Nyx Armored Weapons Carrier* 

Added: Rhino MGS Tank Destroyer* 

Added: 9M135 Vorona manually guided missile launcher 

Added: MAAWS Mk4 unguided recoilless rifle 

Added: Tanker Coveralls**  

Added: Crew Helmet 

Added: Offroad (AT) variant 

Added: MB 4WD (AT) variant*** 

Added: MB 4WD (LMG) variant*** 

Added: Prowler (AT) variant*** 

Added: Qilin (AT) variant*** 

Added: Repair Depot (Civilian, Green, Tan variants) 

Added: Concrete Hedgehog (Whole, Disassembled, Half, Palette) 

Added: Czech Hedgehog (New)  

Added: Dragon's Teeth (New, Old variants) 

Added: Dragon's Tooth (New, Old variants) 

Added: Refueling Hose 

Added: Tank Bore Sighter 

Added: Tank Engine (New, Used variants) 

Added: Tank Road Wheel 

Added: Tank Sprocket Wheel 

Added: Tank Tracks (Long, Short variants) 

Added: Toque Wrench 

Added: Rhino MGS Wreck 

Added: Angara Wreck 

Added: Nyx Wreck 

 

https://arma3.com/news/arma-3-tanks-dlc-rolls-out-on-april-11#.WqFt9UxFwb0

 

YESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYES

[Wiki 1558]

Hum...

I only like the the T-140 Angara Main Battle Tank.

Disappointed by the design of the Nyx and Rhino.

[Hvymtal 1251]

I like the Nyx on the basis of it being essentially the perfect light armored scout vehicle. Small, fast, suicidally nimble, excellent optics and sensors, and it can be a very fun little missile TD. Plus it has a plain olive skin for non-AAF use, which is awesome. It also finally gives AAF an antiaircraft vehicle, a glaring omission to say the least

 

I like the Rhino on the basis that it offers a 120mm gun on a vehicle that can be airdropped from a blackfish. Plus I'm a massive fan of TDs in general. Mobility wise it is seriously underperforming and could use a big power bump If I were responsible, I'd make it in the same ballpark as the Marshall but... less. Certianly not where it is now, the only things less mobile than the Rhino are the Panther family and the Slammer, which is kind of ridiculous, and it doesn't even have tracks to make up for it . I actually gathered objective evidence for this in a thread I made for mobility reference

 

I'm actually kind of ehh with regards to the Angara. What exactly does the standard model do that the Varsuk doesn't? Yeah its the Armata which is the new hotness and that's pretty cool, and it does have better armor in some respects than the Varsuk. But while the command variant will undoubtedly be a beast it's a little underwhelming. Once you get past the ERA the 120 Slammer can kill it in only a couple of hits. Worse, I'm a bit concerned that it will end up effectively replacing the Varsuk. To rephrase my question earlier, what does the Varsuk do that the Angara doesn't? Worrying to say the least. 

 

When I saw "crew helmet added" I was hoping that we would get variants of the NATO and CSAT crew helmets with the damn visor lowered making you look like a fucking X-Wing pilot. But all we got was a TSh-4. Major. Missed. Opportunity. On the upside, it would only be a minor remodel of an existing asset and might still be able to be done. At the very least it would pad the content list and make the DLC an easier sell; it is a bit more sparse than previous offerings.

The new tank traps are welcome, though. I used the crap out of the Hedgehog from Malden, and I'm glad to see more including a future hedgehog!

 

I actually really do want the lowered visor crew helmet a lot. Ever since I first noticed it had one it's bothered me that a lowered visor model was never present

[twistking 204]

Great work, guys.

This dlc looks truly amazing.

 

I think all the new vehicles look very good and promise interesting gamelay mechanics.

I'm also very happy with the new AT-variants of LSV / jeeps and of course the new AT-launchers.

I do however think, that these new launchers come about 4 years too late (I'll take them anyway).

[Rich_R 1087]

Afraid to say, it was the repair depot that caught my eye:)

 

Do like the wheeled armor though! They look sharp.

[lordfrith 401]

Aww yeah, i've been watching the dev branch threads progress with interest and i'm very stoked for this now, especially that fun size tank :D and the vehicle interiors are very welcome.

 

good work BI and i can't wait to get my hands on. x

[Hvymtal 1251]

Did some more personal digging. The basis for the Rhino is the South African Rooikat, but with a bigger gun, lower-profile turret, and "2035-ization" of details. Rooikat is basically a 76mm light reconnaissance vehicle, a bit like the LAV-150 75 but 8x8. With its low profile, it should also provide for a good armored recon platform as well as being a TD.

 

That is, if BIS improves the mobility. I mean FFS it is bad, and when you look at other purpose-built 8x8 big gun vehicles and their power/weight ratios, there is no excuse for it...

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

I agree, the Rhino surprised me with how not nimble it is. Close to the Marshall i would say is a good balance, and those vehicles aren't that good at getting up hills regardless. I love the Angara, only because i'm a fan of the Armata and Kurganets... but the Nyx... finally some light mobile AA. Finally. Also, apparently they also got a rocket launch system for AAF today. Two long awaited additions.

[zukov 490]

59 minutes ago, Hvymtal said:

Did some more personal digging. The basis for the Rhino is the South African Rooikat, but with a bigger gun, lower-profile turret, and "2035-ization" of details. Rooikat is basically a 76mm light reconnaissance vehicle, a bit like the LAV-150 75 but 8x8. With its low profile, it should also provide for a good armored recon platform as well as being a TD.

 

That is, if BIS improves the mobility. I mean FFS it is bad, and when you look at other purpose-built 8x8 big gun vehicles and their power/weight ratios, there is no excuse for it...

is more close to italian Centauro 2

[da12thMonkey 1943]

36 minutes ago, zukov said:

is more close to italian Centauro 2

 

It's Rooikat with the experimental autoloader turret and a bit of a facelift

[Ex3B 266]

Mixed feelings on this DLC.

Its not what I expected, but that's not necessarily bad.

 

The T-140: Exactly what I expected. Something based on the T-14 was expected, and what we got. They say the gun has a longer effective range than most western tanks, but they could probably say that about the Varsuk, is it the same gun on a better platform? The 30mm cannon variant looks like a beast (does it have AP rounds too for use against light and medium armor if the main gun is disabled or busy with something else?).

Does any other faction have anything that can stand a chance against this in a roughly fair fight? If NATO or the AAF don't have CAS to take this thing out, will it be OP'd? The other two added vehicles won't stand up to this 1 on 1.

 

The Nyx: Not at all what I expected, but I must say that I quite like it, although I feel that this is something that CSAT could also use. With the olive camo, it will fit right in with NATO pacific forces. Its supposedly a german design, so it seems fine to give NATO this thing in scenarios... so wheres the Arid NATO camo/livery?

In many ways, it sounds like an MRAP... protected against small arms fire, and transportable by helicopter (side note, might they have tweaked the mohawk lift capacity? it seems it should be in between the ghosthawk and the Huron. If not,then ghosthawks can lift this thing).

I say that CSAT could have used something like this because their most powerful airmobile asset is an Ifrit, and their most powerful amphibious asset is a Marid. Nato had the Marshal for both of those, and now the Rhino for airmobile armored firepower... CSATs amphibious or airmobile assets didn't have anything more powerful than an HMG and/or a GMG. The AAF now has an airmobile armored vehicle equipped with an Autocannon (and an AT variant)

The AAF did need this though, before this DLC, AAF lacked artillery and air defense - no more. I like the separation of the radar from the launcher (and usage of a datalink). Its something unique and can allow for scenarios where only the radar unit needs to be taken down to reduce SAM threat (I was already making some scenarios like this with some workarounds through script)

 

The Rhino: Its something I wanted, but it could be fulfilled by just a port and re-texture of the Arma2 striker MGS (CUP did this, but the textures weren't great). Airmobile (via blackfish) firepower that can take out tanks... me likey. The ol' marshal could take out IFVs/APCs, but it couldn't really take out MBTs, it could only really manage mobility or firepower kills but not hard/complete kills. I like it, but again it seems very very very similar to an Arma 2 unit. It would be like the the Jets DLC just gave us the F-35, but with an updated model+texture+ tweaked stats... its something I want, but I'm not sure I wanted it this way (side note, for the F-35, Night515's Aegis mod provides it, although the 3d model hasn't been tweaked so its still really the X-35 model).

On top of the resemblance in role to the Stryker, I feel like they could have just kept the Marshal body, and changed the turret:

http://www.military-today.com/artillery/wilk.htm

The AMV-7 Marshal = the Patria AMV

The Patria AMV already had a version mounting a heavy cannon. They could have just changed the Marshall turret. Also these things (the Wilk and the Striker MGS) aren't meant to go up against tanks, they aren't tank destroyers.

Lastly, before this DLC, I felt NATO lacked a true and decent MBT, I still feel that way. The slammer is either weak or undergunned, its sluggish, its more of a super IFV than an MBT. With T-14s out there, is this really what NATO needed?

But still... I do love the expansion of the airmobile firepower, and its a much higher quality than what existing mods offered, so I'm conflicted on it.

 

 

Semi-premium content (?):

AT versions of Apex Prowler/Qilin/MB 4wd... welcome additions. CSAT finally has an airmobile vehicle that can be a threat to medium and heavy armor. Also something for syndicat and other "insurgent" factions to use against the other factions. Very nice, even if they aren't much more effective than dismounted infantry with Titan AT launchers, its an improvement.

 

Non-Premium:

Love the cage armor. Love the AT offroads (see semi-premium comment).

LOOOVVVEEE the green textures for many NATO units (ideally for use on Tanoa, but I'm guessing you don't need Apex to use them) AND (!!!) jungle camo net options for the AAF.

I've used AAF units on Tanoa for a while now, but the ol'  "Greenbacks" camo didn't quite fit in so well. This is a very welcome change.

 

[Rich_R 1087]

I'm not a tank-guy at all but this looks like a very cool DLC. Agree the Rhino is a little slower than I thought it would be and absolutely fell in love with the NYX. What an amazing piece of machinery. I can see people getting themselves in trouble with this on MP servers!

 

It was considerably smaller than I thought it would be, but that's its charm really. I guess its based on this?

 

 

Read somewhere on the forums it couldn't be slingloaded by the Merlin, but CUP's chinook lifts it just fine. Can't load it in the ViV chinook version and only one will fit in the Blackfish.

 

BI did a good job having alternative skins available from the get-go such as the plain olive etc. Nice stuff!

[Hvymtal 1251]

Maybe not based rivet for rivet, but it's definitely in the spirit of the Wiesel. That little thing is hilarious

[heavygunner 179]

Its based on the Wiesel 2 which is bigger than the first.

https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datei:Ozelot.jpg

 

https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datei:Wiesel2_radar.jpg

[Hvymtal 1251]

Okay so everyone is drooling over the shiny new big bad guy tank, the T-140 Angara. For a little bit, I was worried about it replacing the Varsuk, but I'm not really worried about that now. Allow me to do a breakdown of the T-140 Angara from the perspective of the opposing military (NATO, in this case). A sort of Threat Report Lite with a bit of user guide to go with it. Warning: No Russian bias here. Stronk Russian tenk is not as stronk as it first appears

 

Mobility: The T-140 is about as mobile as the T-100 Varsuk. From a tactical standpoint, they do not differ significantly in this regard

 

Firepower (Primary): Again, roughly the same as the T-100, at least the standard version. 125mm smoothbore capable of firing a variety of ammunition. In this case, you get 44 rounds to play with, slightly less than the Varsuk's 48. At 20, your most numerous shot is Armor-Piercing Fin-Stabilized Discarding Sabot, APFSDS, suitable for vehicles of all types. Your second type is High Explosive Anti Tank, HEAT at 12 rounds. If you play warthunder at high tank tiers, you will be all too familiar with how devastating HEAT-FS can be, and it's the same story here; it will take about half as many rounds to do the same amount of damage with HEAT as it will be for APFSDS. Third, also at 12 rounds, is simple high explosive. Gun elevation and depression is a very impressive +24 -10 and a bit allowing you to shoot 10m in front of you on level ground; far superior to the Varsuk in this regard, and superior to the Slammer, Kuma, and Rhino as well.

 

Firepower (Secondary): The Co-Axial weapon is the same 7.62mm machine gun with 4000 rounds in two boxes you find on the Varsuk, though it is much more useful with that +24 -10 handling. The commander's armament is typical on the standard variant: one 12.7mm machine gun with 1000 rounds across two ammo boxes, and an also very good at +60 -25 similar to the Kuma's excellent command MG and again far superior to the Varsuk; the turret restricts your close defense capability much more than the gun! The Command variant (T-140K) upgrades this to a rapid-fire 30mm autocannon, capable of firing multipurpose ammunition at a far higher rate than any other cannon. It also has decent ammo stowage, too, at 240 rounds across four ammo boxes, though it will take an eternity and a half to reload once you gone through your 60-round increment; it reloads slower than a disabled seahorse, it is tectonically slow. Elevation and depression are +50 -15; not as good as the Kuma or standard Angara, but not as bad as the Varsuk or the Slammer

 

Protection (Turret): If you've driven it already, you will be familiar with the crew-in-hull design. This saves weight in the Turret allowing it to be spent elsewhere upgrading hull protection. However, the downside is that the turret's armor is the weakest of any armored vehicle I've yet come across; the Nyx's 20mm autocannon will disable the turret in 8-10 rounds to any part except the rear bustle ammunition bustle. At the same time, the Nyx's 20mm cannon will not damage any part of the Varsuk's turret, ERA included, except the rear ammunition bustle, which will disable the gun. The commander's machine gun and autocannon are also highly vulnerable to damage, much moreso than the commander's turret on the Varsuk. Two or three rounds of 120mm HE will disable the turret as well, as will one round of HEAT-MP-T from a 105 or 120mm gun, and one round of AP from any big-bore gun, provided you hit the main body of the turret. It doubly hurts as this vehicle has the highest profile of any Russian medium I'm aware of since the T-34, and the turret is a very easy target to hit.

 

Protection (Hull): On the plus side, the ERA is extremely resilient to damage. The 40mm cannon on the Marshall will destroy any ERA it encounters in one or two hits with AP, but the T-140 will eat hits from its 40mm cannon all day long; you will destroy the vehicle before you destroy the ERA and it will require a lot more 40mm than you can carry. It also cannot be detonated by 120mm high explosive, unlike all other vehicles. It will be detonated by 155mm shells, but from above only.

 

Tips Against: Aim for the turret. It will go down easily to almost anything that's available with more punch than a rifle grenade launcher. If you don't have a good shot at any part that will do good damage, load HEAT-MP if you have it and don't mind using it, as it has favorable damage characteristics to APFSDS against less than ideal targets.

 

Tips Operating: Never attempt any sort of hull-down maneuver. While the crew-in-hull seating means you will live long enough to regret it... you'll still regret it. Tank destroyer or gun tank tactics work better than tank tactics, and in this regard it is similar to the classic dynamic between the T-34 and IS-2; The T-100 plays the T-34's role as the advancement tank, while the T-140 plays the IS-2's role as the fire support. The Command variant is also excellent in its role, provided it has proper sensor assets to support itm and its autocannon is very good against light vehicles and, in a pinch, aircraft. I would not recommend it for urban combat, however, as its turret fragility will dramatically limit its utility

[Ex3B 266]

It seems to have a low muzzle velocity for its gun, but its gun zeros out to 5km (other tank guns zero out to 4km).

Can you confirm? I first looked in the config files, and noticed the initspeed for the magazines it uses was pretty low for the APDS (seems to use the same HE and HEAT rounds as the varsuuk).

It was hard to confirm, but firing zeroed out to 4km had the projectile reach a higher position in the viewscreen (it seemed to take longer, but I don't have a precise enough way to measure)... but that is assuming the same view magnification, which I'm not sure of.

 

Even with the lower muzzle velocity (confirm please?) its gun still seems to be just as deadly, if not more so, than the T-100's and the nato tanks. Maybe its coming down at a steeped angle, and its actually a good thing? (I know the steep impact angles were important in battleship combat, shells could fail to penetrate at close range because they hit thick side armor, but the plunging fire at long range hit the top and went through the thin top armor)

 

If the muzzle velocity is indeed lower for APFDS rounds, it means that it will be a bit harder to hit targets on the move/taking evasive action.

[Hvymtal 1251]

That would also be blatantly incorrect; APFSDS rounds are kinetic energy rounds that rely on momentum to do their penetration. The whole point of sabot ammunition is to achieve near-hypersonic velocities

[Ex3B 266]

yes, that is the point, but I am talking about the game, which does not always model reality correctly.

 

From what I can see in game, the APFDS rounds from the T-140 have a lower velocity than the other APFDS rounds, but they seem to be every bit as lethal.

[Hvymtal 1251]

Did a quick test; approximate results are:

Angara:  1459.68 m/s

Varsuk: 1569.81 m/s

 

Testing Method

 

 

Manual stopwatch

Target 832m away. 1000/832=1.2019230769. Multiply time by this number to reach s/km, divide 1000 by that to get m/s

Time for Anagara: 0.57s

s/km: 0.6850961538

Time for Varsuk: 0.53s

s/km: 0.6370192308

Performed on Tanoa, at Aeroport de tanoa with tank and target at respective ends of the runway, hence the weird distance. Target was Concrete Quay (20m)
 

 

 

Given the difficulties of measuring times as short as that by hand, especially in Arma, I'd say it's well within the margin of error

I think it might just be our imaginations then :P

 

[Ex3B 266]

Well, I looked in the .cfg viewer, and it seems the init speed for the angaras APFSD is lower.

Then I tried timing it, but frame rate is variable, its imprecise, but it seemed that the shells were taking longer to hit.

Then I tried two other methods, with a paper, a pen, and my screen.

First I confirmed that the zoom level was the same... the same targets at 4 and 5 km away were the same width on my screen at full zoom -> equal zoom

Then I made a mark for how how I could see the projectile rise over the 4km trip to the target for the t-140 and t-100 (since both can zero to 4km), the T-140's definitely rose higher, implying a lower muzzle velocity. Of course, its hard to be precise like this as well

I also used the Rhino MGS for the next test, to confirm the validity of the config file data at the same time. According to the .cfg file, the Rhino's gun and the T-100's gun should have nearly the same muzzle velocity, so I'd expect nearly the same drop at 5km.

So for the next test, I zero'ed all guns to 4km, and measured (pen and paper to the screen) how much higher I had to aim to hit the target at 5km

The elevations needed for the Rhino and Varsuk guns to hit the target were nearly identical.

Meanwhile, the T-14 needed the gun to be elevated approximately twice as much to hit the target at 5km with a 4km zero.

 

It wasn't even close, and it was very consistent. The T-140's projectiles are definitely dropping more, so they are definitely going slower.

[joostsidy 685]

I just saw the main dlc page and I am impressed! There is a lot stuff and it will be fun exploring all the new options. To me Arma has always been a unique blend of authenticity and quirkyness. I think this DLC reflects that blend well. There is some seriously impressive equipment in there, but I cant wait to design a mission for me and my friends using the Nyx. It's such an interesting contraption. The addition of missile launchers to lsv's is a very cool addition as well. You can really see the modularity of Arma assets coming together. Now I'm off to sacrifice the four kittens and two bunnies I promised to the gods if tank interiors would ever become a reality again.

[Rich_R 1087]

Every DLC has a MVP, something everyone seems to like, I think this maybe the Nyx for Tanks DLC. The more I play with the Nyx and read other players enthusiastic feedback about it tells me this could be the jewel of this particular DLC crown.

 

7 hours ago, joostsidy said:

I cant wait to design a mission for me and my friends using the Nyx. It's such an interesting contraption.

.

Speed, portability and some armor, it certainly seems a go-to for any type of assault mission.

 

Nice!

[esfumato 75]

Form me the big Deal is

The New AAF AA vehicle.

The New Multiplayer Gamemode.

The update of interiors.

New RPGS

 

 

[Ex3B 266]

20 hours ago, Rich_R said:

Every DLC has a MVP, something everyone seems to like, I think this maybe the Nyx for Tanks DLC. The more I play with the Nyx and read other players enthusiastic feedback about it tells me this could be the jewel of this particular DLC crown.

 

.

Speed, portability and some armor, it certainly seems a go-to for any type of assault mission.

 

Nice!

Well, I'm also quite enthusiastic about the Rhino, given that it can also be airlifted. I think what sours it a bit is that its mobility is sub-par (this could be fixed before release), and its not so new, since we already had the Striker MGS in Arma 2, but so far there's been nothing like the Nyx.

[Hvymtal 1251]

Not since the Wiesel in OFP mods. The Nyx is a perfect fit for Arma: It can go anywhere the foot soldiers can, can be airlifted by the Mohawk or the DLC helis, can be para'd out of the Blackfish, it has insane mobility, it only requires two crewmembers, all four variants are very useful, and its atrocious protection forces players to get creative. You can get into all sorts of trouble with that thing, I imagine it will be a wasteland and KOTH favorite

 

I want to like the Rhino so bad, it's a good design for gameplay variety and is based on a badass design (South Africa's Rooikat), but the mobility is just keeping it down

 

And of course, the Angara is a very nice addition to the lineup, with its own complementary strengths and weaknesses relative to the Varsuk ensuring that one does not replace the other. Which is kind of a big deal if you think about what implications that would've potentially had

 

And of course the fact that all of them have solid-color generic skins just like premium content of times past is an awesome thing