Jet's DLC Balancing REQUIRED

[GBee2 68]

21 hours ago, EasternGamer said:

5 meters above the ground low enough? It doesn't help if they are camping on hills(KOTH) and shoot down.

 

 

Repeat after me, there is no such thing as 'camping' in Arma.

 

If you don't want to get shot down, maybe think about not flying everywhere? Which may like I'm being facetious, but I'm serious, if the AO is too hot to fly into then don't fly in.

 

Your request is basically analogous to asking for cars to require two tank shells to kill when the logical response is to use the right tool for the right job. The littlebird is not meant to stand up to AA defences, it's a knife in a gun fight. If the enemy is spreading themselves out around the hills, packing heavy AA launcher then that makes them vulnerable to infantry. Use their weaknesses against them instead of trying to fight their strengths.

[FallujahMedic -FM- 867]

So, I've had a read through and I'd like to make some observations on your comments.

 One thing that sticks out like a sore thumb is that you are asking for an ENTIRE DLC to be changed because you do not enjoy one groups game mode. That’s sort of like asking a car maker to redesign their entire car because you do not like how your aftermarket floor mats fit. As others have said, if you don’t like how KOTH chooses to "balance" (a term I dislike with a passion), contact them and express your concerns and offer up some ideas as to how you feel it can be improved. http://www.armakoth.com
 

19 hours ago, EasternGamer said:

You might say its unrealistic but then when you think about it, it is. This is not real life. This is a game where you try balance fun over realism and this is where I'd say the fun aspect needs to be increased for the chopper pilot who has spent hours and hours flying and is then just taken out by an absolute noob who has around 5 hours in the game who knows how to press T and click. 

 Arma has always tried to simulate real life as best as it can (budget and time constraints allowing). Even Arma 2 billed itself at the "Ultimate Military Simulator", though now its referred to as a "sandbox". Mod teams such as ACE/CSE/AGM have taken things even further in an attempt to increase believability / immersion. So, yes, it IS a game, but one which makes every attempt to be as realistic as possible (even with imagined future weapons/systems).

This brings me to the “absolute noob” with AA, have you ever heard of the Soviet Invasion of Afghanistan ? Untrained Mujahedeen shot down scores of Soviet air assets and these were piloted by highly trained crew. Do you see the correlation here? Helicopters are quite delicate aircraft (especially Little Birds).
 

17 hours ago, EasternGamer said:

Well its hosted on their official tab in servers. Idk but that makes it pretty official to me..

18 hours ago, EasternGamer said:

Understand this. If you are tasked to land in any AO with a large amounts of people early in a mission and you get one shot because you used a hummingbird. It would have ruined the entire night for a lot of people if it was a one life only mission. The point is that even though it was the wrong decision it pretty much wouldn't matter how much experience you had in the situation you would still not be able save the people in that chopper due to the changes. Bohemia considers KOTH as an official Gamemode which means it should be taken into account slightly when it comes to changes like this. -Everytime I make a post like this complaining about a game mechanic which I have to deal with and others normally don't people always don't want to changed for no apparent  given reason. 

 

Firstly, Bohemia does not consider KotH to be an "Official Game Mode". Official KotH means it’s the KotH team's "Official" (as in Genuine unedited/unmodified) version. (short version) Which are hosted on Bohemia’s servers.

 

Secondly, tactics, tactics, tactics. Dslyecxi has a great guide to tactics here and he has a good video series on helicopters (though a bit old now).

Flying directly into the AO is a huge "No-No". As others have pointed out, infantry (and supporting offensive vehicles) should advance and neutralise any enemy anti-air assets, before transports enter the airspace.
 

Finally, there is only one constant in Arma and that is "everything, at some point, is subject to change". I was one of the first people to purchase the game way back in 2013. The number of keybinds, commands and settings that have changed over the years is quite significant, but I've accepted and adapted to them. You see, I come from a time when you bought a game on a 5 1/4 inch floppy and the version that you bought was the one you were stuck with forever. No patches, no updates, no DLC.

 

Semper Gumby

(always flexible)

 

 

 

 

 

 

[joostsidy 685]

17 hours ago, EasternGamer said:

Its for those people who like to play on a daily basis who want to get into the action fast.

I can't resist mentioning that 'getting into the action fast' in an environment with (semi-) realistic weapons will of course get you killed fast. The default Arma rewards patience, cooperation and forward thinking.

I'm not against action gameplay, but I see a problem when:
If BI would change this can we then expect a post of a KOTH AA player that complains that he needs 2 missiles to destroy an unarmored chopper and pilot? He wants to get into the action fast as well, and kill lots of helicopters.

 

Some of the solutions mentioned and I agree with:
1. I think KOTH mission/mod should just update their gameplay to fit more of the action style you want. I've seen some KOTH helo footage and I noticed there were some things built in like indestructable rotor near buildings/wires, so they could expand that to up-armor the whole helo.

2. Previously there were some discussions that little birds should have at least a missile warning receiver, because they sometimes do in real life. I would be in favor of this if it's truly realistic.

[SpacePilotMax 47]

Arma is a very unbalanced game. NATO and CSAT are vastly superior to the AAF who are in turn vastly superior to the FIA. You would't expect guerillas to have attack helicopters, would you? It's realistic. Same goes for AA: a littlebird can actually be brought quite easily, anything explosive will completely wreck it.

[das attorney 858]

This looks like a non-issue to me.

 

All of OP's requests can be catered for by the Game-Mode developers:  http://www.armakoth.com/

 

Quote

The point here is that if it is a 1 shot there should at least be a warning or no warning but then at least will take more than 1 shot.

 

1) Warning: https://community.bistudio.com/wiki/Arma_3:_Event_Handlers#IncomingMissile

Solvable by game mode developer

 

2) Number of shots: https://community.bistudio.com/wiki/Arma_3:_Event_Handlers#HandleDamage

Again solvable by game mode developer.

 

As someone else mentioned, no need to change anything for everyone else, just to accommodate a 3rd party mission,

[peegee 118]

My two cents: I tought the rule of thumb for air units was: If an area has or possibly has AA presence, avoid the area.

Generally AA > Air units. Humming and Paw can be shot with a handgun anyway. Using those assets require more planning and precautionary measures.

[SpacePilotMax 47]

7 hours ago, peegee said:

My two cents: I tought the rule of thumb for air units was: If an area has or possibly has AA presence, avoid the area.

Generally AA > Air units. Humming and Paw can be shot with a handgun anyway. Using those assets require more planning and precautionary measures.

 

As it has been said many times before, counter them with infantry first. Or AT explosives. Also remember that it isn't BI's problem that a gamemode the gaem was not intended for has questionable balancing issues because of realism. This game strives to be closer to real life than most others, so if you don't like balancing, think about whether it would make sense to use helicopters in an area full of enemy AA in real life.

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

Last time I played KOTH, littlebirds where expendable. You'd fly them in low, fly up and everyone jumps out. If you're hoping to get out alive, either by landing in the hot zone, or by flying to and from, you're pushing it. There are two other teams itching to kill you. So you come here to ask things to be merged because things aren't going your way in a game mode? That's not how this goes and thats not how real life works either. Adapt to the sotuation, or die. When I play, I always coordinate with the team. Too hot to land? Don't land. Really want to survive going in? Ask for support, and get a team to go eliminate the AA threat. When I'm balls to the walls in the city and someone comes over chat stressed out about enemy AA, I'm always glad to search and destroy so they can join me in hell. But for you to get 6-7 people killed and seek a nerf, is actually unacceptable. It's not the mechanics, game, physics, but rather, your play style either isn't well thought out, or your execution isn't up to scratch. I've seen guys go in with a full hummingbird, take 18 cannon rounds, and still put the bird down in between some houses safely. Don't blame it on the balance. KOTH is a team based tactical cluster truck, so you're honestly over reaching with your claims. Also, I have no idea how this even involves the Jet DLC. Just my 2 cents.

[SpacePilotMax 47]

@darksidesixofficialI think he started playing KOTH after the Jets DLC came out and thinks it changed the AA or made the humming less explosive resistant? But it isn't clear to me either.

[drebin052 324]

1 hour ago, SpacePilotMax said:

Jets DLC came out and thinks it changed the AA or made the humming less explosive resistant?

 

Prior to Jets DLC, the Hummingbird had the ability to detect IR guided missiles that were being locked on to it despite the fact that it doesn't have any sensor pods modelled on it.

 

BI removed this with the new sensor update and thus led to OP complaining about the DLC needing to be "re-balanced" to a more gamey standard (aka Battlefield 3/4-style magic helicopters).

[Zaptoman 8]

My two cents (or twenty five, if all you've got is a quarter - no change here).

 

If the OP wants a warning system on the helo, we've got this fancy new dynamic setup for aircraft that allows you to switch what weapon is on which pylon. Either the gamemode devs, or BI, if they were so inclined, could add a sensor pod for IR or RADAR missiles. I'm not thinking it'd be all that hard, the game logic foundation is there already. 

 

But please, for the love of all that is holy, don't make the bird "require" two shots to kill, that would be, possibly, the stupidest thing I have ever heard of.

 

Out.

[chortles 263]

17 hours ago, Zaptoman said:

If the OP wants a warning system on the helo, we've got this fancy new dynamic setup for aircraft that allows you to switch what weapon is on which pylon. Either the gamemode devs, or BI, if they were so inclined, could add a sensor pod for IR or RADAR missiles. I'm not thinking it'd be all that hard, the game logic foundation is there already.

To be fair I'm not sure how this would work from a game engine perspective, unless the pod was a dummy with some 'if this pod is mounted, then IncomingMissile EH is applicable for the vehicle which has this magazine' scripting going on. Bohemia did mention the possibility of future pylons compatibility with external fuel tanks and electronic warfare equipment, but the only addition I've seen thusfar past bombs/missiles/rockets was the Twin Cannon 20 mm gun pod.

[maquez 141]

wow militarism fanboys with pink glasses

 

because of guys like you constant whining for realism, we have now in arma3 the most ridiculous stupid fatigue/stamina system and weapon sway I experienced in any shooter I ever played...

 

the OP has really some debatable reasons, these new Jet's DLC flight dynamics and other changes that did come with the DLC are just overdone, a game should make fun and not generate frust.

 

if you like so much realism go and commit for army services in your country, arma3 is STILL a game !

[chortles 263]

@maquez das attorney already suggested two ways in which the KOTH designers could implement the specific sort of gameplay changes that OP was looking for while remaining exclusive to KOTH, nevermind that OP never addressed the (admittedly late) question of "if your Hummingbird is so hopelessly vulnerable or you're unable to maneuver your way out of a solid lock before launch, what are you doing sticking six-to-seven people into one?"

[SpacePilotMax 47]

@maquez how is the stamina even related to making an unarmored helicopter resistant to (relatively) large amounts of explosives? Not to even mention some would argue that the stamina is rather "gamey", more so than the old system.

[EasternGamer 0]

On 7/25/2017 at 11:56 PM, SpacePilotMax said:

This game is built around things not being a very unrealistic way. IRL, a single AA heatseeker missile can bring down (or irreparably damage) pretty much anything.

So you saying the change was made to make it more realistic? Or are you saying the change was made to make it more balanced for jets. 

 

-EDIT: Didn't see second page

[EasternGamer 0]

13 hours ago, maquez said:

wow militarism fanboys with pink glasses

 

because of guys like you constant whining for realism, we have now in arma3 the most ridiculous stupid fatigue/stamina system and weapon sway I experienced in any shooter I ever played...

 

the OP has really some debatable reasons, these new Jet's DLC flight dynamics and other changes that did come with the DLC are just overdone, a game should make fun and not generate frust.

 

if you like so much realism go and commit for army services in your country, arma3 is STILL a game !

Thanks. 

[FallujahMedic -FM- 867]

15 hours ago, maquez said:

wow militarism fanboys with pink glasses

 

because of guys like you constant whining for realism, we have now in arma3 the most ridiculous stupid fatigue/stamina system and weapon sway I experienced in any shooter I ever played...

 

the OP has really some debatable reasons, these new Jet's DLC flight dynamics and other changes that did come with the DLC are just overdone, a game should make fun and not generate frust.

 

if you like so much realism go and commit for army services in your country, arma3 is STILL a game !

What sets Arma apart from other games is that it is NOT a shooter. It has shooting, yes, but that does not qualify it to fall under the generic header of "shooter". The Arma series have always chased realism wherever possible. This has led to Arma being in a genre all its own. Many games can do aspects of what Arma does, but none can do them ALL to the extent that Arma does. 

The OP has an opinion, and we are all welcome to our opinions, but I would probably say "questionable", rather than "debatable". As I said before, to change the entire game to conform to one user made game mode just does not make sense. It doesn't make logical nor business sense. 

As for your final sentence, I have served 12 honourable years and am a combat wounded veteran. I've done my time. If I wanted to play a shooter, I'd play BF/COD/ or one of a multitude of clones. 

 

[beno_83au 1369]

22 minutes ago, FallujahMedic -FM- said:

As for your final sentence, I have served 12 honourable years and am a combat wounded veteran. I've done my time. If I wanted to play a shooter, I'd play BF/COD/ or one of a multitude of clones. 

 

 

+1 to this. Over 11 years infantry, plus about 18 months as a reservist working on VBS after discharging from full time service, and the OFP/ArmA series has always been my favorite (I actually started on OFP before enlisting). It's been ages since i played a BF title, and even longer since i touched COD. Nothing against them, and i really enjoyed playing them, but the older i get the less interested i am in titles like those. 

[xxgetbuck123 945]

Is this another entitled KOTH player expecting everything to be balanced around them? 

 

 

 

[maquez 141]

sorry,

I never played and will never play KOTH ...

 

there are also other players arround that had once fun with arma3, but these changes the latest few years did erase most of the cool parts of the game

 

I can list a few of them:

- audio overhaul, was arround march, april 2015 very good but got messed up later

- fatigue/stamina, no comment here or I risk a forum ban

- weapon sway, same as above

- visual upgrade, night missions are now just a bad joke

- Jet's DLC, VTOL's now just pain in the ass to fly and other overdone changes specially with the sensors

and so on...

[R0adki11 3949]

43 minutes ago, maquez said:

sorry,

I never played and will never play KOTH ...

 

there are also other players arround that had once fun with arma3, but these changes the latest few years did erase most of the cool parts of the game

 

I can list a few of them:

- audio overhaul, was arround march, april 2015 very good but got messed up later

- fatigue/stamina, no comment here or I risk a forum ban

- weapon sway, same as above

- visual upgrade, night missions are now just a joke

- Jet's DLC, VTOL's now just pain in the ass to fly and other overdone changes specially with the sensors

and so on...

Well this thread is going way off topic, its time to close it.