Dynamic Vehicle Loadouts feedback

[chortles 263]

2 minutes ago, Imperator[TFD] said:

i imagine by whitelist he meant mission side not config side. :)

If the game will allow in-mission payload changes via UI then mission makees should hopefully have a method to control what and how much of each weapon is available. Either by scripting or via module with options.

I was thinking the config determining what options are accessible within the UI...?

[ozdeadmeat 12]

7 hours ago, chortles said:

I was thinking the config determining what options are accessible within the UI...?

Correct Chortles, I was considering some ability to stop players from equipment certain types of weapons. Similarly to the way Arsenal works currently where you can limit the weapons a player can select based on a whitelist. The Garage thing would be awesome but the last time i tried that in a multiplayer game it only spawns the vehicle local to the player and not on the server. If this has been fixed, awesome, if not, i don't see the point of using Garage for that kind of thing.

[Imperator[TFD] 444]

3 hours ago, ozdeadmeat said:

Correct Chortles, I was considering some ability to stop players from equipment certain types of weapons. Similarly to the way Arsenal works currently where you can limit the weapons a player can select based on a whitelist. The Garage thing would be awesome but the last time i tried that in a multiplayer game it only spawns the vehicle local to the player and not on the server. If this has been fixed, awesome, if not, i don't see the point of using Garage for that kind of thing.

 

Chortles probably meant the actual model config files rather than an in mission white list.  The key difference is that config files cannot be changed in game and only via mods.  A white list from the mission editor side of things could be changed based on the mission makers designs.

 

Either way I'm sure BI will work it out.

[snoops_213 75]

Since this requires work on the models and this is going to be added to the helicopters, is there any chance we will see stub wings added to the AH-99 and the UH-80 for weapons/fuel tanks in the future? 

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

Unliekly, but possible. They could do something like what Firewill has done to the Ghosthawk. But since it's "Jet" DLC, they're mainly focused on that aspect, however, it's too early to tell. All we have to work with is the Wipeout.

[dragon01 902]

Well, today's update gave dynamic loadout to Blackfoot. It's very limited, but it's good to see it used somewhere else. I think that it'd be a good idea to add the minigun (like on AH-9 and Orca) as a dynamic loadout weapon (and remember my suggestion about fire linking! :)). 

 

And yes, I'd definitely suggest something like EFAMS (external weapon pylons for Commanche) to be added to Blackfoot, at least. Right now, it's a rather lousy attack helo, carrying only 4 missiles and 24 rockets, versus Kajman's 8 missiles and 38 rockets. 

[Imperator[TFD] 444]

Just now, dragon01 said:

Well, today's update gave dynamic loadout to Blackfoot. It's very limited, but it's good to see it used somewhere else. I think that it'd be a good idea to add the minigun (like on AH-9 and Orca) as a dynamic loadout weapon (and remember my suggestion about fire linking! :)). 

 

And yes, I'd definitely suggest something like EFAMS (external weapon pylons for Commanche) to be added to Blackfoot, at least. Right now, it's a rather lousy attack helo, carrying only 4 missiles and 24 rockets, versus Kajman's 8 missiles and 38 rockets. 

 

I'd say they're close to even though.

Those 24 rockets are all guided and it only takes 2 to disable a full MBT.  So that's 12 guaranteed disabled tanks (or 24 dead IFVs/MRAPS) vs the Mi-48's 8 guaranteed disabled tanks.

Plus the Commanche can defend itself against fast movers while the Mi-48 cannot effectively.

On the upside the Mi-48 can carry 8 infantry and has a slightly more powerful cannon (but less rounds).

 

Not to mention it's highly likely that with these sensor changes coming up that the AH-99 might possibly have a much lower cross-section and thus be more 'stealthy' than the Kajman.

 

So it's all about trade offs.  To say the Blackfoot is limited is to be a bit naive about it's capabilities.

[kuIoodporny 45]

Any news about magazineGroup property for magazines? I guess it would be useful for pylon weapons.

Or even better, a class like Joint Rails that would let us add supported interfaces and inherit them in 3rd party mods.

 

 

[dragon01 902]

3 hours ago, Imperator[TFD] said:

To say the Blackfoot is limited is to be a bit naive about it's capabilities.

I said that dynamic loadout on it is limited. That is, you choose between two or three weapons per station as opposed to 7 or so on Wipeout. Also, Blackfoot is a pretty capable helo, but still kind of loses out to Kaiman in terms of ordnance carried. The DAGR, while a decent weapon, is a compromise and it shows. Neither as powerful or long-ranged as a proper ATGM (not too bad on tanks, but IFVs will now gut you if you get too close), nor can you carry as many of them as regular rockets. Kaiman, on the other hand, boasts 8 full size ATGMs and a full load of rockets. Not guided, yes, but with a good eye you can do just as much damage (and yes, you can easily make up those 4 tanks with rockets and cannon). The only thing Kaiman is not better at fighting are other aircraft, but that's not what attack helos are for, anyway.

[chortles 263]

4 hours ago, dragon01 said:

Well, today's update gave dynamic loadout to Blackfoot. It's very limited, but it's good to see it used somewhere else. I think that it'd be a good idea to add the minigun (like on AH-9 and Orca) as a dynamic loadout weapon (and remember my suggestion about fire linking! :)). 

 

And yes, I'd definitely suggest something like EFAMS (external weapon pylons for Commanche) to be added to Blackfoot, at least. Right now, it's a rather lousy attack helo, carrying only 4 missiles and 24 rockets, versus Kajman's 8 missiles and 38 rockets. 

I'm interested in the possibility of pylons/stations that are only available if they're not 'hidden', the same way that Apex's MB 4WD is a two-seater or a four-seater depending on whether or not "Hide rear seats" is selected in the Component tab of Garage, maybe even tying radarTargetSize to it? Imagine "Hide EFAMS" as default with the current Blackfoot and thus being able to only edit the internal bays, or unchecking it to gain additional weapon/pylon slots in return for a greater radarTargetSize value.

[petek 62]

4 hours ago, chortles said:

I'm interested in the possibility of pylons/stations that are only available if they're not 'hidden', the same way that Apex's MB 4WD is a two-seater or a four-seater depending on whether or not "Hide rear seats" is selected in the Component tab of Garage, maybe even tying radarTargetSize to it? Imagine "Hide EFAMS" as default with the current Blackfoot and thus being able to only edit the internal bays, or unchecking it to gain additional weapon/pylon slots in return for a greater radarTargetSize value.

This definately! I think the more "milege" that we can get by BIS altering the existing assets the better (see my earlier wish for MOOG-type configurable RCWS but seems unlikely;-()

Although not Jet really if this is a route BIS go it would be cool to swap out (or even add) the door gunner loadouts......... I can dream;-)

[snoops_213 75]

8 hours ago, chortles said:

I'm interested in the possibility of pylons/stations that are only available if they're not 'hidden', the same way that Apex's MB 4WD is a two-seater or a four-seater depending on whether or not "Hide rear seats" is selected in the Component tab of Garage, maybe even tying radarTargetSize to it? Imagine "Hide EFAMS" as default with the current Blackfoot and thus being able to only edit the internal bays, or unchecking it to gain additional weapon/pylon slots in return for a greater radarTargetSize value.

You sir have been reading my mind haven't you? Thats  what i was going to say in my previous post asking about the stub wings being tied to RCS, but i got to frustrated with my phone to type it all out. This would be a "cool" feature to have 

[chortles 263]

8 hours ago, dragon01 said:

I said that dynamic loadout on it is limited. That is, you choose between two or three weapons per station as opposed to 7 or so on Wipeout. Also, Blackfoot is a pretty capable helo, but still kind of loses out to Kaiman in terms of ordnance carried. The DAGR, while a decent weapon, is a compromise and it shows. Neither as powerful or long-ranged as a proper ATGM (not too bad on tanks, but IFVs will now gut you if you get too close), nor can you carry as many of them as regular rockets. Kaiman, on the other hand, boasts 8 full size ATGMs and a full load of rockets. Not guided, yes, but with a good eye you can do just as much damage (and yes, you can easily make up those 4 tanks with rockets and cannon). The only thing Kaiman is not better at fighting are other aircraft, but that's not what attack helos are for, anyway.

On the other hand, as of this post the Kajman currently can be detected from 20% further out than 'normal' via IR and (active? passive?) radar sensors -- 'normal' being irTargetSize/radarTargetSize = 1 instead of the Kajman's 1.2 -- while the no-stub-wings Blackfoot effectively reduces enemy IR sensor range against the Blackfoot by a fifth (irTargetSize = 0.8) and enemy radar range vs. the Blackfoot by 30% (radarTargetSize = 0.7)...

[Imperator[TFD] 444]

38 Anti-tank Scalpel missiles.

 

So over the top but so great.

 

[Guest]

And what does it looks like on the AH-99? I can't check by myself for now.

[dragon01 902]

Now that's some AT loadout. :) I think that BIS will have to put some work into differentiating the available weapons. For example, Scalpels and Macers always felt same-y to me. I don't know about the OPFOR missile that Apex introduced (it's on the new drone), but I don't think it's much different from Scalpels, either.

[chortles 263]

2 hours ago, Mitrail said:

And what does it looks like on the AH-99? I can't check by myself for now.

It's already been described further up on this page, as of yesterday single missiles on the pylons or the twelve-rocket DAGR pods on the innermost, so any mix of six ASRAAMs/Skalpels or the two DAGR pods (twenty-four rockets) and a mix of four ASRAAMs/Skalpels.

[ozdeadmeat 12]

On 2/22/2017 at 2:29 AM, darksidesixofficial said:

Unliekly, but possible. They could do something like what Firewill has done to the Ghosthawk. But since it's "Jet" DLC, they're mainly focused on that aspect, however, it's too early to tell. All we have to work with is the Wipeout.

Latest Dev patch confirms Jets and Helo's are getting this feature with Dynamic Loadouts becoming available on AH-99.

 

[Imperator[TFD] 444]

4 hours ago, ozdeadmeat said:

Latest Dev patch confirms Jets and Helo's are getting this feature with Dynamic Loadouts becoming available on AH-99.

 

 

I don't quite think that's what he meant.  I believe he means that he would like an option (like in some mods) where the player can actually place extra wings and thus extra pylons onto the Blackfoot (like it's real world counter part could) which would sacrifice radar cross section but allow for a greater payload.

[five_seven5-7 56]

Please be more restricted in the external stores about the dynamic loadout:

 

- if cant had mass for each bomb type munition, add air friction to simulate heavy cargo plane.

 

Every line about munition have a limit air speed and G forces associated.

 

 

[ozdeadmeat 12]

yeah, it would be good to have maximum weight restrictions on aircraft also. Something that affects the aircrafts handling. That said, there should be a dump ordinance button also incase pilots take some damage and need to limp home.

[danny96 80]

Would restrict it only in Advanced Flight Model by making maneuvering harder.

[Imperator[TFD] 444]

Bi have already said weight based changes and an advanced flight model for airplanes is not happening.

 

What I did forget to test when I was playing around with the Blackfoot though is whether it performs better in AFM with no missiles attached as the AFM does take into account weight.

[ElPablo 5]

A-10, the audio on the cannons mounted to a rail can not be heard in 3rd person unless you swivel the view around towards the front of the plane. The firing sound may be set to far to the rear of the jet. First person is fine.

 

The Garage could work well to visualise a load-out, but is player specific. Could these player created load-outs be exported/imported to other players?

 

The vehicle graphic where you can select the dynamic load-out is great, but the drop-down boxes towards the bottom of the window are not mouse selectable. You have to select the lower down the list options with the down/up keyboard cursor keys. Or if the UI window could be resized in eden to enlarge the window may be.

 

 

Consider a well defined and selectable load-out list for the target vehicle. A list of all the weapons based on role type e.g.: AA 1, AA 2, Multi-role, Ground 1, Ground 2, Bomber. This will restrict the load-out's from a player perspective, but it may be easier for Dev's to implement and overcome bugs. As there are so many different configurations to test just for the A-10 alone.

[Bomber - rail 1 and 4 small bombs, rail 2 and 3 big bombs, mini-gun, countermeasures]

 

A custom player load-out could be used working similar to the current method and that allows mods (scripts.sqf or player profile load-outs). This would hopefully ensure that the vanilla game is tested and bug free quicker and at the same time allows the freedom and customisation of alternative user/mod load-outs, but is not supported/implemented yet.

 

So we get clean and bug free load-outs too select for the A-10. Bugs encountered in a player profile load-out or a script.sqf can be uploaded to forums etc to be worked on later down the line (audio, animation, clipping, textures bugs etc)

[oukej 2910]

So far the idea was that we'll leave the responsibility for the mission maker not to add insane loadouts ;)
There are no restrictions when using scripts and some restrictions when setting up a vehicle in Eden editor.