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Server monetization program

Monetization program  

204 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you feel that the current monetization program is / was beneficial for the community at large?

    • YES
      27
    • NO
      177
  2. 2. Would you agree with server monetization program

    • YES
      40
    • NO
      164
  3. 3. Would you agree with addon monetization program

    • YES
      54
    • NO
      150


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3 hours ago, road runner said:

A tool that caused a LOT of issues between BIS, and Mikero and the creator when he released both the encunter and decunter, his youtube video page was quickly shut down, now nothing remains, he really did put the cat amongst the pigeon's with that little tool.

Personally There's only really one reason why you use ebo's if you're not a developer, and that's to stop people from checking contents, partly because they're using other peoples stuff, and partly because they're more secure to stop people ripping from them..

 

A tool like this would be beneficial for modders who create their own original content who are also sick and tired of people or communities making retextures of their work despite their EULA prohibiting doing so. * cough cough *  I'm sure the modders would be more than happy to enter an international legally binding contract with BIS for use of such a tool.

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We already know what the Arma community would look like if it was entirely based on spinning a profit out of other players. That's what the Life communities are, and they're an utter shitshow of stolen work and other shady behavior. The modding community for actual Arma has be doing quality work since the very early days of Arma, and they did it all without having to extort anyone, or take payoffs from anyone. 

Oh and if you can't personally vouch that nothing in that "modpack" is stolen, that says to me that there's probably stolen assets in there, either with your knowledge or via someone presenting a ripped model as their own work.

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12 hours ago, m1lkm8n said:

Hmmm...offered us to look at files to make sure nothing is stolen but the files are all ebos. Interesting since I doubt any of you own vbs. 

 

Im all for people making money but to do it by riding the coat tails of hard working modders is a shame. A slap in the face at those who work hard just for the pleasure and fun.

 

But anyway. I actually created a new buldozer cursor tool if you guys need it...

 

 

 

Damn, shots fired! If you need a higher quality model, I gotcha back! (NSFW Link)

There is an .ebo encryptor out there created by douggem, he also created a decryptor for APEX files which bohemia wasn't very happy with but we talked to B.I. and encryptors are totally fine. Anyway you can't unpack the .ebo's but nothing stops you from loading them into the eden editor and looking at the content/config files, there is also many videos on our mod out there on youtube. Let me know if you need help setting up an .ebo encryptor and get these stealers off ur back :)

 

8 hours ago, Alwarren said:

 

 

That is actually not how it does (and should) work. Modders should not be required to check your modpack to make sure you haven't stolen anything, YOU should check your modpack and make sure you haven't stolen anything.

 

This is exactly the thing I effing hate about the monetization. In theory, I should not have to look myself if someone stole one of my mods. In reality however, I have had so many cases that I can't really count them anymore, and some only because some other modder was the victim of the same thieves and notified me. It's a pest.

 

I am not implying, or try to imply, that you are stealing anything, but surely you see why this is a serious concern for us modders.

 

I agree, modders should make sure everything is legitimately used and I 100% understand your concern. However "regulating" monetization gives bohemia more "legal power" to go after communities using a modders work without their permission. Let's face it, there are over 150+ monetized communities, a big part of those communities already had some kind of "monetization" going on before these guidelines. It was a big problem in arma 2 and now we have established guidelines on monetization there are fewer communities who monetize content illegitimately thus fewer communities for bohemia interactive to proceed with legal action against. The report system (which doesn't work very well all the time) can be used to report communities for unauthorised usage, but it's better than having to go after communities yourself.

 

I am also a big fan of encryption and protecting the content to prevent unauthorized usage to begin with, however that would prevent people from opening up content for learning purposes. It would be a better system for people to contact the modder and ask for source files that way. Bohemia is working on community encryption, but is not a priority for the moment.

 

-Kane

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16 hours ago, fn_Quiksilver said:

i don't quite get why people are attacking daphne 

 

if his server is voluntary by all parties (relevant addon makers are okay, players are okay, admins are okay) then what is the problem? arguing against money and profit in general is just silly

 

also:

 

- maybe  ~750 hours spent actually playing arma

- does not count all the time spent in notepad++ and VS

4RAea7E.png

 

 

Simple. The wider community hate the life community, most players hate us, even we hate us. Bohemia won't go out of their way to support life mods, since that's not what the game is about (Unfortunately for them, the life community is a BIG part that cannot be neglected. Over the last few years life mods have been accountable for more than 20~30 million youtube views). BIS pay little attention to the life community. I personally rationalize it by just thinking of how sadly stupid those people must be in order to not do anything for themselves, and not even attempt to have the integrity to say "Can I use your work?". Even when these retards ask for permission, they use it regardless of your response. They are the monkeys playing with recycled garbage (which unfortunately for them I've found ways to battle this) and I'm the one who can make new shit on the spot .

 

We already know what the Arma community would look like if it was entirely based on spinning a profit out of other players. That's what the Life communities are, and they're an utter shitshow of stolen work and other shady behavior. The modding community for actual Arma has be doing quality work since the very early days of Arma, and they did it all without having to extort anyone, or take payoffs from anyone. 

Oh and if you can't personally vouch that nothing in that "modpack" is stolen, that says to me that there's probably stolen assets in there, either with your knowledge or via someone presenting a ripped model as their own work.

 

I can personally vouch that nothing is stolen, I would be happy to host a teamviewer meeting and let people go through my work. Stopping people from using our work is the sole reason for .ebo encryption, not to hide illegitimate or "stolen content".

 

-Kane

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3 hours ago, daphne said:

 

Simple. The wider community hate the life community, most players hate us, even we hate us. Bohemia won't go out of their way to support life mods, since that's not what the game is about (Unfortunately for them, the life community is a BIG part that cannot be neglected. Over the last few years life mods have been accountable for more than 20~30 million youtube views). BIS pay little attention to the life community. I personally rationalize it by just thinking of how sadly stupid those people must be in order to not do anything for themselves, and not even attempt to have the integrity to say "Can I use your work?". Even when these retards ask for permission, they use it regardless of your response. They are the monkeys playing with recycled garbage (which unfortunately for them I've found ways to battle this) and I'm the one who can make new shit on the spot .

 

 

I can personally vouch that nothing is stolen, I would be happy to host a teamviewer meeting and let people go through my work. Stopping people from using our work is the sole reason for .ebo encryption, not to hide illegitimate or "stolen content".

 

-Kane

 

just a heads up there are a number of .ebo decryptors in the wild now :)

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10 minutes ago, fn_Quiksilver said:

 

just a heads up there are a number of .ebo decryptors in the wild now :)

 

Yeah, have heard some rumors. .ebo encryption isn't the only security thing we did, we disabled editor, disabled menu properties, ebo dependencies and created various server-sided scripts to "unlock" content within the p3d. Someone smart will figure it out eventually. It does stop 99% of people from using our content without permission.

-Kane

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8 hours ago, daphne said:

 

Yeah, have heard some rumors. .ebo encryption isn't the only security thing we did, we disabled editor, disabled menu properties, ebo dependencies and created various server-sided scripts to "unlock" content within the p3d. Someone smart will figure it out eventually. It does stop 99% of people from using our content without permission.

-Kane

Do you see how much effort you need to spend on securing your assets? This is an effort that could be spent on improving your mod. If there is money involved in modding people will do stuff like this. Or put adverts popups like in the Skyrim paid mods.

 

Note that you are going kinda similar way the DRM people went. However once DRM is cracked the only people that have to deal with it are the honest purchasers as pirates circumvent the whole thing.

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13 hours ago, daphne said:

Simple. The wider community hate the life community, most players hate us, even we hate us.

yes, some players hate life communities, but the very very few hate it because of the gameplay.

i for one don't really care how other people spend their free time or what they play during that free time..

i do however care if because of the way they spend their free time that affects my own free time (as in needing to come down hard because of IP infringements). Most of the ones that needs a proper spanking are part of this life community at large...

 

Quote

 

Bohemia won't go out of their way to support life mods, since that's not what the game is about (Unfortunately for them, the life community is a BIG part that cannot be neglected. Over the last few years life mods have been accountable for more than 20~30 million youtube views). BIS pay little attention to the life community. I personally rationalize it by just thinking of how sadly stupid those people must be in order to not do anything for themselves, and not even attempt to have the integrity to say "Can I use your work?". Even when these retards ask for permission, they use it regardless of your response. They are the monkeys playing with recycled garbage (which unfortunately for them I've found ways to battle this) and I'm the one who can make new shit on the spot .

 

To be honest, i think you are wrong, and BI does pay quite a bit of attention to both what players play, and what are the mods they are using...

Yes, they will not cater directly towards the life community needs via creating content for it, but they neither do it for milsim communities in this case either...

 

Arma games are in fact a big sandbox. it is upt to you and you alone to create these aditional lego pieces which you can play with as per your own desire...

 

btw, i wasn't picking on your directly, tbh you are the exception from the overall rule when it comes to how things are done.

As i said it before, no matter if our principles differ, i do respect the fact that you are doing your own addon by yourselves to fit your particular play-style and bussines needs.

 

 

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17 minutes ago, PuFu said:

Arma games are in fact a big sandbox. it is upt to you and you alone to create these aditional lego pieces which you can play with as per your own desire...

Exactly. In fact we now have literal Lego pieces :icon_biggrin:.

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Hi, 

 

I run my own Wasteland server, all credits to those who made the mod, the addons and scripts currently on my server. 

 

I do not monetize my server, i do not accept contributions, i do not advertise.

Server per month costs me 25 euro

Time spent dealing with admin stuff, about 3 hours a week.

 

Do i feel like i deserve a share? Hell no! I made nothing, scripted almost nothing and the time i spend a week on a server is minuscule.

Only people allowed to monetize are those that create the mods, lets be fair, if we did not have the modders arma would be dead.

 

I can see why "admins" (kids with creditcards) would want to monetize, but it is our duty as grownups to tell them, no, you cant take money for that what is not yours, renting a server does not make you own the mod, the people playing come for the mod, not for you, not for your fancy welcome messages, not for the free website you got when renting the server. 

 

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You guys may not realise, but there is actually a marketplace where people can share their work for money if people are willing to pay. Its called: Steam Greenlight. Its a fucking cesspool of greed, low effort work for a quick buck and full of greedy dicks that will lie, cheat just to get some moneiez.

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6 hours ago, taro8 said:

Do you see how much effort you need to spend on securing your assets? This is an effort that could be spent on improving your mod. If there is money involved in modding people will do stuff like this. Or put adverts popups like in the Skyrim paid mods.

 

Note that you are going kinda similar way the DRM people went. However once DRM is cracked the only people that have to deal with it are the honest purchasers as pirates circumvent the whole thing.

 

agree that encryption is bad too. for the following reasons:

 

hinders learning process

any encryption will be cracked (afaik has been so far)

hurts the wrong people

general anti cooperation move that not only people who are trying to fight their free assets being used to make money by others but also EVERYONE else will use

 

just mirroring Taro's post kind of because i feel it's an important point since this whole money dicsussion is not only about money itself but the effects on an open community.

 

i feel with everyone being frustrated with not getting credits. it's so damn easy to do and the only reason to not do it, aside from being careless and inconsiderate, is mostly trying to take the credit for work others have done. i have been a "victim" of this myself a lot.

 

BUT, i always try to give people a second chance and lettign them know why exactly i feel it's important. i still feel it's something an open community has to suck up and go against in other ways (for example moderating) than locking down files. because then you are doing a similar thing. you know how there is this "share alike" license? i feel the same should apply to knowledge. now if you think all you ever did, you did entirely on your own, then mostly (if not always) you are wrong. i feel that even goes for anything in life.

a key thing to advanced civilisation is recording/collecting of data. without that everyone starts at zero over and over and over and...without that there is no point to a community at all.

 

so many things could be solved by simply asking. that's why i think, while open sharing is great, having everything open source is not the solution like some people suggested in the past when similar things were discussed (i think it was about blastcore, not sure), because it eliminates the social factor, which imho is very important. i feel all this goes deep into human nature. like open market vs communism. none of it works per say. it's the sweet spot inbetween that creates the magic.

 

sorry for long post, just my personal thoughts on this. fully subjective.

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5 minutes ago, bad benson said:

a key thing to advanced civilisation is recording/collecting of data. without that everyone starts at zero over and over and over and...without that there is no point to a community at all.

 

This^^^^^

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Quote

Overprotecting intellectual property is as harmful as underprotecting it. Creativity is impossible without a rich public domain. Nothing today, likely nothing since we tamed fire, is genuinely new: Culture, like science and technology, grows by accretion, each new creator building on the works of those who came before. Overprotection stifles the very creative forces it's supposed to nurture."

  • Dissenting in the White v. Samsung Elec. Am., Inc., 989 F.2d 1512 (9th Cir. 1993) ruling. [3].

 

https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Alex_Kozinski


There is nothing more to say, from my side.

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that Alex Kozinski dude stole my thoughts. time to put on my tin foil hat to encrypt my thoughts.

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On 2/17/2017 at 0:22 AM, dscha said:

1 of 10.000 :/

 

There are only about 50 'big' servers left in arma. most of them are empty or just have the server owner sitting in it to have pop > 0.

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On 2/17/2017 at 5:35 AM, bad benson said:

 

agree that encryption is bad too. for the following reasons:

 

hinders learning process

any encryption will be cracked (afaik has been so far)

hurts the wrong people

general anti cooperation move that not only people who are trying to fight their free assets being used to make money by others but also EVERYONE else will use

 

just mirroring Taro's post kind of because i feel it's an important point since this whole money dicsussion is not only about money itself but the effects on an open community.

 

i feel with everyone being frustrated with not getting credits. it's so damn easy to do and the only reason to not do it, aside from being careless and inconsiderate, is mostly trying to take the credit for work others have done. i have been a "victim" of this myself a lot.

 

BUT, i always try to give people a second chance and lettign them know why exactly i feel it's important. i still feel it's something an open community has to suck up and go against in other ways (for example moderating) than locking down files. because then you are doing a similar thing. you know how there is this "share alike" license? i feel the same should apply to knowledge. now if you think all you ever did, you did entirely on your own, then mostly (if not always) you are wrong. i feel that even goes for anything in life.

a key thing to advanced civilisation is recording/collecting of data. without that everyone starts at zero over and over and over and...without that there is no point to a community at all.

 

so many things could be solved by simply asking. that's why i think, while open sharing is great, having everything open source is not the solution like some people suggested in the past when similar things were discussed (i think it was about blastcore, not sure), because it eliminates the social factor, which imho is very important. i feel all this goes deep into human nature. like open market vs communism. none of it works per say. it's the sweet spot inbetween that creates the magic.

 

sorry for long post, just my personal thoughts on this. fully subjective.

 

there is big difference between sharing and helping, and posting full source code.

 

here is real life scenario playing out on the server browser right now:

 

- market of 5000 players (enough to constantly fill a 100 slot server 24/7).

- server owner/modder wants to create fun experience and gameplay geared toward 100 players, with high quality control.

- other servers beg for their source code

- server owner/modder publishes source code

- 100 other servers running his mod appears

- market of 5000 players now spread between 100 servers

- server owner/modder now finds he can no longer fill his 100 slot server, avg pop falls to 75 since there are many servers running his mod for players to choose from

- server owner/modder can no longer create the fun experience and gameplay for 100 players, quality control is greatly reduced as clueless server owners running the mode try to "tweak" and "edit" and introduce errors and bugs.

 

 

^ modder publishes source code and gets punished for it, and the quality control of the experience goes down.

 

guaranteed if you create big mode that people love, and fill your servers with players enjoying the mode, if you publish the source code other servers will appear and you will lose many of your players, and this will adversely affect what you're able to do, and your control over the type of experience you want players to have.

 

 

the way I see it,

 

helping + sharing ideas = good

publishing source code = ??? (neither good nor bad, has very real pros and cons, modder experiences most negatives while 'community' experiences most positives)

 

IMO the 'open community' arma died about 4-5 years ago. Now the 'open' modders are suckers while the 'closed' ones benefit at their expense.

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that's kind of what i said though.

 

Quote

while open sharing is great, having everything open source is not the solution

 

it's certainly a grey area. not 100% sure what you mean though. does not encrypting your files qualify as publishing source code to you? or are we talking commented github here?

 

or are you advocating having the large part of the mission server side to hide it from people? because when you release an addon you are effectively releasing the source code. and modelers have the luxuery to binarize their models. that's another interesting but kind of different topic. code vs assets. copying parts or whole models is way more "pursecuted" in this community. it's a common phenomenon though. it's like how arts get seperated from design because design has function to it and is thus a mix between art and function which i guess makes it more of a product. it's weird and also interesting. but i don't' wanna side track too much.

 

i think what you say is valid for the exact stuff you talked about to a degree but doesn't apply in the same way to addons imho. once released and never modified addons can be used by anyone. a server only has so many slots. it also restricts the way something is used. which i totally get from a game design point of view but it limits things for the user.

 

i'd personally and especially as a player like to see a mission hosted as many times as possible, if i like it.

the opposite has happened a lot where game modes i liked just disappeared because only one server hosted them. it can go both ways which goes back to the Alex Kozinski quote.

 

but i guess if you see yourself more as an admin too, your bread and butter is having your server be the most visited and successful. i can totally understand it from a personal standpoint. is why i said just opening everything up can be destructive too because no one has to talk to each other anymore and creations become just things free to grab without any connection to the person who put all their blood, sweat and love into it.

 

which is i think the main thing. it's not just products. it's projects of passion with emotional attachment. that should be respected to a healthy degree. and based on that the unwritten rules of this community have kind of naturally formed over time. so it makes sense to not want to touch a running system. atleast in my opinion. also worth noting that sharing with mostly strangers needs to be mutual. i've become careful with it. if you are too open people will take advantage.

 

anyways. need to take a break from this thread. posts are getting longer each time lol

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On 2/14/2017 at 1:29 AM, road runner said:

The rest of your disingenuous comments towards addon makers are borderline flame bait.


Seriously, you need to take a step back and reread what you wrote, as it's highly inflammatory indeed.

The difference between addon makers and server hosters ?  the former isn't driven by greed and the desire to make as much money off people as possible.

 

On 2/14/2017 at 1:17 AM, toadie2k said:

To suggest it's a one-and-done affair is kind of myopic at best.

 

On 2/14/2017 at 0:29 AM, war_lord said:

I'd love to know what you're smoking when you think an "Awesome" weapon mod can be made in 5 hours (try 3 months) or that modding doesn't require any continuous time investment (Apparently you think that mods update themselves when Bohemia releases a patch that breaks things).

 

On 2/13/2017 at 10:22 PM, kiory said:

You clearly have no concept of how much time goes into making assets, do you?

 

On 2/14/2017 at 1:49 AM, fn_Quiksilver said:

Have you published any addons/mods?

 

It can take thousands of hours to learn and develop the competency to even take on many tasks.

... suggesting that learning how to make a quality addon that people want to use, is a trivial process, is asinine.

 

On 2/14/2017 at 6:04 AM, Alwarren said:

 

I have to pay the license fees for the software I use every month. CUP needs to pay for their servers every month. You cannot just simply oversimplify everything

Addon making also potentially takes MUCH more time than setting up a server. Don't tell me "You have no idea", because yes I have an idea since I ran a game server in the past, I know how much work either side of the aisle is.

 

 

This argument is bogus. You essentially are saying the system is fair because I could be doing both, host a server and mod. That is a ridiculous notion. That's like saying "don't complain that actors get so much money and you as a nurse don't get it, because you could be acting next to your nurse job. It just doesn't compute.

 

If it were the other way around, and servers could not monetize but addons could, would you propose server hosts to get into modding? I have my doubts.

 

Your "Awesome AA-12" mod, have you *actually* done that? Because, I am fairly confident in making weapons in the meantime but I take an average of about 40 hours to make a weapon from start to finish. You seem to completely underestimate the time required.

 

On 2/14/2017 at 8:06 AM, PuFu said:

if you really don't understand how things work, please don't post at all...

 

 

OK, before you all lose your minds... 

I'll admit that was a terrible example, but you guys took things waaay out of context. That post/example was geared towards a very specific reply. 

 

If you had gone back before jumping in the middle and looked at my other post, you'd find that I am FOR...

 

Meaning I SUPPORT:

 

  • Mod makers being allowed to charge money for the stuff they work so hard on! I think they deserve it... I believe that if you do the work, you should have the choice to get paid for it. If you don't do the work, then you can't use it unless you pay for it or the maker gives it to you for free.  (I do think that a small percentage should probably go to BIS for using their platform/software. I don't really think a Mod maker should be able to charge more than full price for the game but then again that would be up to BIS. I guess either way you'd be making money for them if the game is required to play the mod.)

 

  • Making servers have to pay (just like everyone else) to be able to use/host Modded content. 

 

  • Preferably making content only available through trusted avenues where transactions can be clearly documented and recorded for legal/monetary purposes.

 

  • Making the trusted content providers a place where descriptions (by maker) and reviews (by players) are scrutinized for accuracy and well regulated. 

 

  • My wish would be a system that allows vanilla players to play along side players who use addons in modded servers with the restriction that they can't use that content. Kind of like how the DLC packs are. You can ride in the helicopters but you can't shoot or drive. You can pick up the weapons but you're quickly prompted to buy the DLC.  (Not sure if any of that is possible and I'm sure someone would exploit it, but it would still be nice.) 

 

 

Ideally people won't pay for a trashy mod or at least won't pay a ridiculous price for it,unfortunately that's not always how it works... 

There needs to be some kind of solution for say... A maker making a crappy mod and having all his friends and community members go rate it 5 stars and write awesome reviews without having every used, it just so they can get a few extra bucks.

 

 

Just to clear things up, I have dabbled in mod making. Not in anything in depth or in anything that I was planning or hoping to release but I have done it. I know exactly how tedious and frustrating it can be to try and just get started!  

 

The example wasn't meant to simplify of trivialize the countless hours of tedius work and or the time it takes to learn how to do that work in the first place.  It was meant to make a simple, open ended point without having to go into too much detail.  

 

The example I made was based off of my personal experience with taking a model of a gun that a friend made and changing the front and rear sight color. (Just to see how the colors would contrast against each other and different backgrounds.)

 

I was trying to simplify a scenario where someone makes a mod that they did little to hardly any real work on and because of a lack of intellectual property protection and a terrible review system, they turn around and sell it for as much as a copy of the game; people buy it only to find out it sucks or was mostly someone else's work.

 

I didn't really care to get into the discussion but now that it's already heading that way...

 

How much of someone's idea can or should be protected as intellectual property? 

 

A few years back I remember hearing about a chat site that had a falling out with one of it's coders. When they kicked the coder out he turned around and sued them for continuing to use his work/code to run the chat site. It took about 3 weeks or so before they could get someone else to come in and write all new code and change up the stuff the other guy did. 

 

I wonder how different someone's work would need to be in order to be considered different from someone who did it first... Or if it would even cause problems at all. (I assume it would at some point.) 
 

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29 minutes ago, squirrel0311 said:

The example wasn't meant to simplify of trivialize the countless hours of tedius work and or the time it takes to learn how to do that work in the first place. 

 

It wasn't? I sure as hell sounded like it. You said you would make an "awesome AA-12 mod" in five hours, and then never have to touch it again to get money out of it, but at the same time stating that a server needs to be maintained. Your example was meant to show that making addons is trivial and maintaining a server is hard tedious work. 

 

You failed in a spectacular way to make a point, only displaying your ignorance and lack of knowledge on the subject matter. Your example DID trivialize the countless hours of tedious work, the time to learn how to do that in the first place, and the cost involved to get and maintain the tools.

 

You got lectured by a number of addon makers that know better and have actually spent the time to make something, and know how this works.

 

So I can only echo PuFu's comment: If you really don't know how things work, don't comment on them.

 

 

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Why do people want to forcibly make me happy? I do NOT want to be able to sell my mods, not that I don't want to even if I have the option. I do not even want the the ability to do that. Why? Because such thing would destroy the environment I adore and make me go do something else knowing that the beautiful thing was destroyed, stomped into the ground and then set on fire, all in the name of money.

 

As for open source: does anyone force you to release mods? I don't think so. If you release them you must be aware that at some point someone will pick up your work and do his own stuff based off it. Personally I release all my mods in a spirit of cooperation. What is the point of me sitting on top of a model I made or something like that. I fully realise that there are people that might pick up my stuff and change in a way I never even thought possible. This means my works continues on in form of some other mod. I'm actually happy when that happens.

 

In the end people should strive not to be massive dicks toward each other. Money completely prevents that.

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On 2/16/2017 at 9:51 AM, taro8 said:

You guys may not realise, but there is actually a marketplace where people can share their work for money if people are willing to pay. Its called: Steam Greenlight. Its a fucking cesspool of greed, low effort work for a quick buck and full of greedy dicks that will lie, cheat just to get some moneiez.

 

This couldn't be stressed enough. One only needs to look at Steam Greenlight and see what kind of future the arma community could have by allowing content monetization.

 

Modding is a hobby and thus should be treated like one, it's not a job. If you're trying to create a community server and can't afford it then you shouldn't be running one to begin with. End of story.

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Some modders are making stuff for imaginary friends, to unexistent people. And only then are allowed to use it. No one really meet the requeriments.

 

Its a mental condition that comes with sentimental isolation.

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Just so my tone is clear. I'm not sitting here angrily smashing the keyboard and shouting.  Just in case it comes across that way. I'm not really for or against anything being discussed. :smile_o:

 

15 hours ago, Killjoyy said:

Modding is a hobby and thus should be treated like one, it's not a job. If you're trying to create a community server and can't afford it then you shouldn't be running one to begin with. End of story.

 

You're entitled to an opinion, just like me, or anyone else here. But that's a statement. You , or I, don't get to tell anyone else what is, or isn't considered a job. Which if you look at it sensibly, is just a task performed, or service rendered, for a fee.

 

I've never understood why some things are not looked upon as jobs and others are. If you get paid for something on a regular basis, it's a job. It doesn't matter what it is. If game developers, artists or musicians, took that line of reasoning, the world might be a very boring place to be. I know for a fact that they quite often have to listen to comments like "get a real job". If they took that advice, this thread for example might not exist.

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