Faces of War [WW2]

[Barden 296]

3 hours ago, Leib said:

 

I'm not saying that a single man needs to carry forty stick mags or something like that. Simply saying that realism and Arms don't combine.

 

Take a Soviet soldier with an SVT. He would only carry about three magazines. But then he would have a crap-load of five-round stripper clips. So following the logic, then he should only have three magazines in game, when in realize they would have several more than that in overall ammo.

 

For Garrand ammo, those blocks are small. You can pack those in your pockets, double-pack them in pouches, and everything else. A man with only six pouches on his best could easily have 12 or more blocks on him along with everything else.

 

Then you have to consider how clunky and unwieldy medical is in ARMA. It's unreasonable to expect a medic to go unarmed just to carry enough bandages, morphine, etc. wholly by themselves. Not to mention that in real life the practice did start that troops would have at least a simple pack of bandages and tie-bands on them (reference the old predecessor to the IFAK you will see on American soldiers helmets). 

 

And trust me adding a backpack doesn't give enough space for enough ammo to last two hours real-time and carry literally anything else but ammo. And that's ammo, not grenades or much else.

 

A simple rule of thumb for a change could be having NCO variants carrying more than their counter-part versions. Things like that. While also giving everyone a general boost.

 

Good discussion definitely, but I personally would assume totally up to the mod maker to focus whether or not they like to go for more exact realism or gameplay. You have to remember that with ACE turned on the inventory system is managed with a complete complication in mind. It would be most likely that FOW had built their uniforms and equipment to be true to how many pouches the character is carrying. Although you would have to make sure simple stuff like Airborne uniforms being slightly able to carry more than a standard uniform because of the pockets, and maybe including the bandoleer to an Airborne vest to stick to the principle that the soldier carries the ammo on his webbing, you have to remember that they don't take into account initially then working with an ACE expert to figure out how much the weight since I would assume they make sure it fit an arma 3 medkit or two, like they stated, leaving the backpack for any extra gear. Not sure if they have an ace expert on their team or not, but your arguments seem to be working off the basis like they have one by default when the maybe don't or aren't aware! Not entirely a problem as it's part of the discussion but definitely something to take into consideration.

[giallustio 770]

11 hours ago, Barden said:

 

Although you would have to make sure simple stuff like Airborne uniforms being slightly able to carry more than a standard uniform because of the pockets, and maybe including the bandoleer to an Airborne vest to stick to the principle that the soldier carries the ammo on his webbing, you have to remember that they don't take into account initially then working with an ACE expert to figure out how much the weight since I would assume they make sure it fit an arma 3 medkit or two, like they stated, leaving the backpack for any extra gear.

Already done for the next patch

[eggbeast 3673]

we've had this discussion many years ago in unsung mod too.

typically, we set it up that a uniform can carry a couple of mags or nades,  or 5 med kits (bandages really)

i have my webbing allowing up to 10 grenades depending on what type, as you can clip them all on in vietnam era - so 4 on your hips, 2 at the front of the belt and 4 on your web straps.

That's a lot, but for standard nades the limit is more like 7-8.

in real terms, an infantryman might carry 2-4 grenades depending on what he can get his hands on. Airborne and commandos would carry 4-6 maybe.

 

In terms of primary mags, a typical combat soldier would carry anywhere around 100 rounds for a rifle.

For an SMG like mp40, maybe a pack of 4 mags, plus a couple stuffed in his belt or pockets.

PPSh - 2 drums - one on each hip.

Russian infantrymen might not even have a rifle, they may be following a guy who has one lol.

so you can't just follow pure reality.

 

in unsung we tend to allow snipers using stripper clips to carry as much as 40 of them in their backpacks. that's not how we config the AI, it's just what we allow in MP setup.

shotguns might carry 12 boxes of 8 shells

LMG's like the BAR would have a max of 12.

MG42 maybe 4-5 snail drums

but that's a lot compared to reality of the situation in ww2, as you don't have the ability to have ammo carriers and MG assistants, etc, so you have to compromise somewhere.

 

some people beg for realism, but if you gave it to them completely, then 75% of your audience would be uninstalling your mod.

so you have to compromise, and provide authenticity rather than realism.

authenticity means makign the ammo work correctly, for the period, packaging it as correctly as you can (mag sizes etc), and fitting your AI with an appropriate amount of ammo.

IF you gave them real amounts of infantry ammo, based on some battles etc then the AI would run out so quickly, the game would be pointless.

 

just commenting on some of the issues we faced in designing unsung, as we have similar issues, and similar tribes of historians each with their own axe to grind (not always bad!).

 

[bars91 956]

7 hours ago, eggbeast said:

In terms of primary mags, a typical combat soldier would carry anywhere around 100 rounds for a rifle.

For an SMG like mp40, maybe a pack of 4 mags, plus a couple stuffed in his belt or pockets.

PPSh - 2 drums - one on each hip.

Russian infantrymen might not even have a rifle, they may be following a guy who has one lol.

 

The REALLY old and stupid 1-in-3 gets a rifle COD shit aside - almost spot on.

 

Some corrections:

PPSh were usually factory-bundled with +1 drum, so really there was more like 1 on the gun + 1 in a pouch + loose ammo in a cloth pack stashed in a sack or backup pouch.

Later, with sticks they would typically go 1 in the gun + 3 in a pouch.

 

As for Mosin - 4 pouches x 3 clips each = 60 rounds + loose ammo in a backup pouch/pockets.

But since the Mosin pouch is a total BITCH to load from, it was common to carry fighting clips/loose rounds in uniform pockets as that provided faster reloads. And pouches would hold spare loose rounds.

 

WW2 was somewhat weird in this sence - WW1 practices slowly adapting to modern maneuver/urban combat. Much like WW1 itself with line on line "musket" combat turning into mechanized meat-grinder.

[160thSixgun 106]

Gotta say, I'm not always much for WW2 mods these days, but really enjoy this one.  Kudos to the makers.

 

[Pro_Killer PL 16]

Thank you for amazing mod! Thanks to you guys I could finish my short cinematic. In the future i can do more videos by using your mod. 

 

 

Tell me what you think about it.                             (sorry 4 my english)

[eggbeast 3673]

@bars, yeah good thoughts bud. the thing is that line infantry were supplied by these enormous logistical armies some10x the size of the front line fighting men.

in arma you don't have that 10x logistics and supply going on behind you, so you tend to play more like a special forces unit than infantry (even if you are playing infantry tactics / theme, you still don't have a full set of transport, medical, supply, support, kitchen, hygiene, engineering and other services), so players will normally engage more enemies in their games than a man might do in a ww2 battle. 

 

if you had true milsim you'd spend 99% of your time sitting about talking shit, while doing menial chores like re-upping ammo, delousing, kitchen police, digging latrines, running hot chow to the front lines, etc, etc. can't see people playing that though eh.

 

[bars91 956]

2 hours ago, eggbeast said:

*snip

 

Yep - totally valid points on force sizes and play stiles.

 

I'd say - it's "better" to have more storage space to allow for "real life" loadouts and adjust down from there where applicable.

[giallustio 770]

or tweak it at your desire with a super easy cfg like most of the units already do.
Make everyone happy is impossible

[ayjay 117]

How difficult would it be for a layman like me to tweak the lethality of explosions which I believe are much to powerful in Arma 3 in general?

[LCpl Derr 7]

When you say that they are too powerful, what types of explosions are you referring to and how are they too powerful?

[ayjay 117]

43 minutes ago, LCpl Derr said:

When you say that they are too powerful, what types of explosions are you referring to and how are they too powerful?

 

Mortar bomb explosions for one. I was playing out a scenario a couple of days ago where one mortar round exploded, in relation to the size of a soldier, say 6 feet, about 40 feet ( a little over 12 meters ) away from a group of 6 and killed them all.  

[zio sam 77]

Shrapnell my friend

[LCpl Derr 7]

Actually, compared to actual mortar rounds, that is severely underpowered. The kill radius of a 60mm mortar is 30 meters (kill radius of an 81mm mortar is 60m). 

 

That takes the blast overpressure into account, but the casualty radius is MUCH farther. 

[bars91 956]

And every war movie EVER (even those who try for realism) downplays the lethality and kill/shock distance of light arty and grenades.

 

Funny enough - M203/other 40mm launchers tend to be portrayed as handheld artillery usually 

[eggbeast 3673]

our grenades are very powerful in unsung mod. which makes for difficulties in balancing the game in PVP. it's great in co-op, and especially in dense forest.

so at some point i may clone the grenades and make PVP specific ones, with a much smaller kill radius.

A typical BI grenade has a 5m radius. Ours go from 10 to 25m, depending on the type.

[LCpl Derr 7]

Dang eggbeast, what kind of grenades are you guys throwing??? M-sixtyC4?! Haha.

 

The kill radius for hand grenades (specifically the M67) is 5 meters with a 15 meter casualty radius. M203 HE and HEDP rounds have the same kill and casualty radii too. 

 

But with any explosives, shrapnel flies much farther than the casualty radius and can still produce casualties far outside of the casualty radius. 

 

When explosives are detonated inside structures, the blast overpressure is magnified when it 'bounces' off of walls therefore producing much more killing power. (For example, hiding behind cover in a room when a grenade goes off will protect you from the shrapnel, but you will most likely still be killed because the overpressure will bounce off of the walls behind/around you.)

 

With all of that being said, the overall lethality of explosives and grenades are generally underpowered in Arma (IMHO). 

[eggbeast 3673]

yeah i'm talking about casualty ranges not lethal ranges.

we have white phosphorus, napalm, concussion, frag, gas, HEAT, and some of the bigger russian nades too (explosives-wise).

The WP and napalm have quite large areas of effect.

our m67 has a casualty range of 15m, based on similar data to yours. the old BI nades had a casualty radius of only 5,
 

[zebraminge 2]

Is there a way to rearm the static M1919 or to put the non-static M1919 on a tripod?

[LCpl Derr 7]

You have to dismount the gun and use the scroll wheel to do the reload on the tripod mounted 1919 (for the non static one)

[LCpl -Ret- Tree 52]

will there be any Northern European, North African, Sicilian maps? 

[Zhivets 2392]

3 hours ago, C-LCpl Tree said:

will there be any Northern European, North African, Sicilian maps? 

They posted teaser pics of a European map in the Discord server.

[Bitesrad 481]

Been playing with the mod a lot lately and Im having an absolute blast. I do miss the default splash screen though (although more specifically, the big editor button). I see Toadie's m1903 rifles were incorporated into the mod. Any chance Bnae's Lee Enfield and 1897 shotgun will make an appearance?

[EHolz 14]

A discord server? Is is open for public? If yes, a link would be nice :)

[giallustio 770]

It's in the first topic & in the steam WS page