Co-op Campaign: APEX PROTOCOL

[en3x 209]

Having played first mission alone and all the rest in multiplayer I can see one thing clearly.

The systems around campaign were designed around coop and only coop in mind.The fact

that they considered pulling solo away just proves me that.

 

So that is my problem - More resources should be allocated to treat SP and MP equally.

If that would mean that I would have to wait further (similar to arma 3 campaign) I would

accept that.

 

Despite the fact that this expansion is supposedly being worked alongside marksmen dlc

and heli, but based on situation I suspect that only tanoa was in production during that time

for the apex.

[OMAC 254]

On 7/23/2016 at 10:14 AM, R3vo said:

It bugged on devbranch since friday, use stable.

 

An example of why I don't use Dev branch.  I don't like having to post in Dev branch forum when I played Apex Protocol on Main branch, but this thread seems to be where most people, including Arma "old timers," are posting good comments about the campaign.

 

On 7/8/2016 at 2:53 PM, pettka said:

we still want to stay true to our heritage and prepare the best platform mainly for military gameplay.

 

The most foolproof way of staying true to your heritage is to provide solid and complex SP content of varying accessibility and difficulty as BI always has rather than abandon it for the campaign. For me, Arma is all about the missions and tactics. Great assets are wasted without creative, complex missions that require clear tactical planning. BI playable content should inspire the community by its novelty and creativity. BI can't just leave playable SP content creation to the community while still charging high prices similar to or greater than prices for past products.

 

And this is after having only one SP mission for Marksman DLC, a real letdown, and essentially a ripoff.  So I suspected this BS was coming.  Again we have only one mission, End Game showcase, that is truly playable and believable in SP.

Underestimating and ignoring your core community and legacy is a mistake, unless the devs come up with a completely new concept or paradigm, which BI has not done in this case. East Wind has some wonderful new elements, such as scouting missions.  Even ACR had novel elements, such as flooding, dynamically-generated scenarios, and the narrowing search area map markers.

 

A platform is not a game. Sometimes I wonder if BI can tell the difference any longer. Perhaps A3 team should forget about playable content and transfer to BI Sim. ;)

 

On 7/9/2016 at 1:42 AM, pettka said:

You, the community, are better at tailoring the content specifically to the needs of Your groups.

 

It is clear that Arma as we know it has begun to die.  BI wants Arma to move in an entirely new, low-cost, "accessible," run 'n' gun, kid-friendly, MP-only direction. MMO for Arma 4? I wouldn't be surprised at this point.

 

There are repeated references to "groups" and "units" in your posts.  Again giving away your MP-only focus and preference.  This is extraordinarily maddening and disappointing to me, but not unexpected.  Bile begins to rise in my esophagus.  <_<

 

I am deeply dismayed by the attitude of "Hey if you don't like our short MP run 'n' gun "campaign," make your own, suckers! You've got 3den, get busy! Even though you don't have a slew of paid, talented designers who eat SQF for breakfast every day, and no MOCAP and sound design studios, your campaigns will be just as good as ours! And, best of all, they will fit your playstyle perfectly!" Are you kidding me? :rolleyes:

 

On 7/9/2016 at 1:42 AM, pettka said:

We might have chosen an approach that doesn't fit Your playstyle,

 

Hmm, what is my playstyle?

 

Answer: CWC, Resistance, Armed Assault, Rahmadi Conflict, Queen's Gambit, Harvest Red, Eagle Wing, Operation Arrowhead, Crimson Lance, Black Gauntlet, Silver Lion, East Wind.

 

Yeah, I guess Apex doesn't fit my playstyle.

 

On 7/9/2016 at 1:42 AM, pettka said:

While I have seen tons of comments all along the forums that people don't play our campaigns, and we have some numbers,

 

Yes, there are quite a few posts in these forums by MP-only people saying that they never play BI SP content. Those posts could have been ignored in order to stay true to your heritage. Heeding those posts was quite useful and expedient, as it removed the need to create another SP campaign, which is very, very hard work. Too hard for BI, apparently. But this MP-only style is a direction that BI really, really wants, has wanted for some time, and has hinted at it in various ways. I'll bet they feel that the industry and tastes are moving in that direction; the hard work involved with generating creative SP content just isn't worth the effort, but creating a nice 3d editor is, as it "supports the community." It also gets them off the hook (they hope) for drastically skimping on good SP content. BI clearly no longer has the desire, and perhaps not even the skill, to make high-quality, story-driven, complex, and original SP content.

 

On 7/8/2016 at 2:53 PM, pettka said:

For one, I have really liked the fifth scenario of campaign mainly because of the achievement hidden in it - You need to do it without being detected by any enemy.

 

This achievement has been bugged and broken in Main branch since release.  :rolleyes: <_<

 

On 7/8/2016 at 2:53 PM, pettka said:

We have accepted a compromising condition of the campaign, that it won't be the best thing ever for our core users.

 

This is some maddening crap indeed. I don't understand this at all. It should have been left unsaid, as it makes matters much worse for "core users," and significantly dampens Arma morale among them.  If you think it will alienate "core users," why release it? The answer was apparently "accessibility" to new users.

 

Users for whom A3 was their introduction into the Armaverse have already played East Wind, most likely, and Apex will be a disappointment to them.  Even if they are MP-only people and never played East Wind, they are well-versed in Arma mechanics from online play, and thus wouldn't need more instruction or other dumbed-down, "easily accessible" content.  Apparently BI feels that removing many key Arma elements, such as commanding, results in improved accessibility.  I disagree.  Just look at CWC, Resistance, and even East Wind, where you start as a grunt and move up to command.

 

I am heartened by the many excellent posts in this thread. It is clear to me that Apex Protocol has bombed out big time for anyone with serious Arma experience.

 

For the sake of heritage and legacy, I hope BI adds better SP gameplay opportunities to Apex Protocol.

[peterla 14]

Hi all,

So far I like the missions on the campaign but I dislike that respawn feature in SP and is even questionable in multiplayer; with a longer bleed out timing will get the players more tension to heal the downed comrades and affect directly the tactics used on the missions.

Anyway this is only my "subjective" suggestion.

All the best and great job.

Regards,

Peter

[Variable 322]

I share OMAC's concerns. My only hope is BIS (or at least parts of it), although not admitting to it publicly, seeing APEX protocol as... not a success.

[R0adki11 3949]

Flame-baiting comments removed any further issues may result in forum penalties  :ph34r:

[R3vo 2654]

Played the campaign in coop today. There seems to be alot of issue with conversations played once for each player causing one player to hear the same dialogue up to 4 times.

 

Additionally, I'd suggest that reviving should take longer. For none medics 30 seconds, for medics 15-20. Otherwise covering the medic and creating cover with smokes is pointless if one can get reived within 5 seconds anyway.

[Variable 322]

Does medic even have any point in this campaign or is it just there since its part of the Battlefield role structure?

[2nd ranger 282]

Don't know if anyone mentioned this, but in the second mission where you meet the other team in the ruins and there are a bunch of dead Syndikat lying around, do the dead guys have some kind of pale custom face that's supposed to make them look like they've been dead for a while? Because whatever it is, their normal faces clip through it and it looks really weird.

[R3vo 2654]

Does medic even have any point in this campaign or is it just there since its part of the Battlefield role structure?

No puporse at all.

 

I'd like to see that only Medics can revive.

[johnstewjohnny 10]

I have one last question to ask. Is there any chance that comments from experienced Arma3 players (which I am not) on this thread are going to change anything about Apex campaign? Particularly the thing about respawning for casuals.

 

My experience with WoW says a big "NO". WoW had 12M subscribers in 2010, and has less than 5M now, but despite that Blizzard is making more money because of introduced micro-transactions, so clearly they are satisfied with screwing their core players, since the gain is there, and it is easier to produce content for casuals who like farmville style missions. (might sound off-topic, but I am just describing what I witnessed happening being on forums and having played WoW from 2005-2011).

 

one last time, I was ready to buy Arma3 right away, then I saw Apex thing and it was a deal-breaker. Basically to me Arma3 wouldn't be "just a game". If I got involved with it, I'd play Arma3+every expansion and eagerly waiting for Arma4 etc.  If it is going the same path WoW is, and possibly other games that alienate their original audience, I'd rather skip it - which seems a shame since it looks like a very complex game, and so far I only found one more called Squad (but it doesn't look as good as Arma3).

 

so, does anything ever get changed because people on forums wrote about what they like/dislike?  

[Varanon 892]

I'd like to see that only Medics can revive.

 

I think the revive system already supports that, so it would be nice if we could have that as an option in the Apex Protocol campaign...

[Varanon 892]

I have one last question to ask. Is there any chance that comments from experienced Arma3 players (which I am not) on this thread are going to change anything about Apex campaign? Particularly the thing about respawning for casuals.

 

I'm going to jump the gun and say that I'm pretty sure that BI will add the option to disable respawn.

Also, I would like to comment on your idea that the Apex campaign shortcomings are a deal breaker: You are missing out on a lot of other great stuff in the expansion. Even if the campaign was a bit of a downer and I thought that overall, the expansion was short on content, it is still worth the buy

[zoog 18]

I was ready to buy Arma3 right away, then I saw Apex thing and it was a deal-breaker. Basically to me Arma3 wouldn't be "just a game". If I got involved with it, I'd play Arma3+every expansion and eagerly waiting for Arma4 etc. 

You're over-thinking way too much IMO. The time spend on the forums and thinking about what if's or could be's is better spend on actually playing and getting to know the game ;)  Just get it on Steam, try it for <2 hours and if it's not what you like: request a refund. Cheapest edition is €34,99 (without the Apex deal-breaker) which has enough content available, both official and unofficial, to last for years. Seriously, we can't make this decision for you  :) Like someone said earlier, it's not like you're applying for a mortgage. 

[johnstewjohnny 10]

You're over-thinking way too much IMO. The time spend on the forums and thinking about what if's or could be's is better spend on actually playing and getting to know the game ;)  Just get it on Steam, try it for <2 hours and if it's not what you like: request a refund. Cheapest edition is €34,99 (without the Apex deal-breaker) which has enough content available, both official and unofficial, to last for years. Seriously, we can't make this decision for you  :) Like someone said earlier, it's not like you're applying for a mortgage. 

I know I will love the gameplay. I just don't want to get myself into it if it is going to get dumbed down even more. Comments from that dev guy on this forum were extremely discouraging. 

[Wiki 1558]

Sad thing is now we found much better usermade scenarios.

So it does confirm what they say - community will keep making missions and campaigns, even better than theirs, and it will comfort BIS in their thoughts.

I hope (but I doubt) BIS will come back to their basics concerning the SP experience.

[metalcraze 290]

The fact that achievement "better with friends" was unlocked by 0.2% of 2mln+ ArmA3 player base in 2 weeks post release (the hottest time) speaks a lot about this "campaign".

0.2% people completed a 4hrs long can't-fail "accessible" campaign designed for MP in MP in a predominantly MP game...

Judging by a sitrep BIS thinks this is because people aren't trying to play it in coop. People aren't trying to play something in coop in ArmA. THE coop game.

Clearly 99.8% ArmA players don't find apex protocol accessible enough. This campaign is clearly catered to that pesky vocal minority!

[Wiki 1558]

Don't forget that many people who bought ArmA 3 and Apex just did it to play "life" thing and will never touch anything else.

[Variable 322]

Don't forget that many people who bought ArmA 3 and Apex just did it to play "life" thing and will never touch anything else.

That's exactly the point. BIS alienated their core players and got nothing in return. Bad move. Traitorous move.

[zoog 18]

The fact that achievement "better with friends" was unlocked by 0.2% of 2mln+ ArmA3 player base in 2 weeks post release (the hottest time) speaks a lot about this "campaign".

 

I didn't get any achievements even though we, among other things, finished the Apex Protocol campaign with a group of 4 friends. So not sure if all the achievements are working as they should?

[johnstewjohnny 10]

in case anything gets changed, where will I be able to see it? patch notes on steam?

[Stalkermaster2015 60]

in case anything gets changed, where will I be able to see it? patch notes on steam?

They post weekly sit reps. Should contain the information. You can subscribe to recieve updates from them without needing to own the game as well.

[ceolnariazz 39]

on a rented server is there a possiblity to select the missions you want to play from the tablet type menu where you have to approve the missions ?

[lexx 1363]

A suggestion for the new subtitle function: Please make the outlines a little bit thicker. In Apex's mostly dark missions it doesn't matter a lot, but as soon as you'll get the surrounding a bit brighter it becomes kinda hard to read the text.

[R3vo 2654]

A suggestion for the new subtitle function: Please make the outlines a little bit thicker. In Apex's mostly dark missions it doesn't matter a lot, but as soon as you'll get the surrounding a bit brighter it becomes kinda hard to read the text.

 

Not only that, also the Y position is extremly bad, it's directly overlapping the "respawn in" text control, making it very hard to read. Ideally, it should not interfere with the respawn menu at all.

 

 

On another note, here are a few bugs I found, or things to improve:

• Dialogue in the last missions says that the key was obtained as soon as Warlock is dead, however, the body needs to be searched first

 

• The automatic respawn button isn't activated, is there any specific reason for that?

 

• In mission 05 Extraction, one can clearly hear when the helicoper which is afterwards damaged is spawned. E.g, engine sound of the helicopter can be heard all of a sudden.

 

• The achievement "Better with friends" wasn't unlocked for me, played the whole thing in one go this evening.

[Wiki 1558]

Bit off topic, but how can I get the text at the beginning of the missions (date, time and location)?

It's not the same as the on in East Wind.