Co-op Campaign: APEX PROTOCOL

[djotacon 190]

 "Save Button will kill the spirit of the Mission"... gimmie a fucking break. To act like this is some delicately handcrafted mission in which a Save but NOT unlimited Respawn would destroy it's spirit, is so fricking ass-backwards I cant even help you...

 

Allegory of the cave.

[Variable 322]

The scenarios of APEX is designed exactly this way (JIP, no savegames, no tickets, no variable daytime) and only works as it is, adding an option like no-respawn and the scenario dont either.

Had the campaign was designed without respawn in mind it would have been better for people like me, sure. However that doesn't mean that having an option to remove respawn wouldn't have made it BETTER that what it is now for hardcore players. 

[froggyluv 2130]

LOL.

 

This guys just having a sport at swatting at everyones opinions and liking the attention -dont even bother...

[Variable 322]

Allegory of the cave.

And that's the best level of support BIS receives for this campaign. Quite telling.

[IndeedPete 1038]

What? oO

 

So if I can die and reload instead of respawning, the campaign suddenly doesn't work anymore?  :huh:  What connection am I missing here? It would alter the experience, obviously, but that is exactly what people are after. We criticise it because of the way it was designed.

[Stalkermaster2015 60]

LOL.

 

This guys just having a sport at swatting at everyones opinions and liking the attention -dont even bother...

Yep, won't accept other opinions that ain't his own. Remember options are bad and evil! Hide them from your children!

[djotacon 190]

Yep, won't accept other opinions that ain't his own. Remember options are bad and evil! Hide them from your children!

 

Yeah sure... after publishing my own mission parameter framework to add more options to the missions, obviousIy dont like the pameters missions ... :D  :D  :D  :D

 

Someone reads the all answers in this thread or only read the last two ?

[mickeymen 322]

Uhhh, thanks. :/

Sorry, I didn't want to spoil

 

Best thing I did here was just rush through to the objective cause one of the respawn points was the Ai so as long as I rushed they came up, unkillable and created a nice respawn point I exploited, first run of the mission i did it in 15 minutes.

 

I go through each mission, so never to be killed. For this reason, the Respawn points - not for me  :ph34r:

[djotacon 190]

And that's the best level of support BIS receives for this campaign. Quite telling.

 

Whut?

 

I like the COOP APEX CAMPAING as it is, there's no more higher level of support... :lol:

 

[Drama Intensifies]

[djotacon 190]

YOU think it is a finished and well designed campaign. I think you don't understand that some people don't think that.

 

Do you read my previous post?

 

No?

 

Yes?

 

Maybe?

 

And after of that why do you think that I dont understant the others opinions?

 

I think you dont read my previous post where I explain my opinion with arguments...

[h - 169]

Troll police, please sign up..

[billw2011 0]

Just here to add my voice: please SPify this campaign. You literally have a "play solo" button but then you don't get AI team mates? That is just lazy of you considering you are charging so much.

[VanZant 48]

Just here to add my voice: please SPify this campaign. You literally have a "play solo" button but then you don't get AI team mates? That is just lazy of you considering you are charging so much.

 

That button is the marketing button. Its function is just to capture 2 or 3 COD players. Apart of that, it's useless.

[TheAlex720 7]

I read through all your posts in this thread and still didn't find a single argument why would adding an option to cancel respawn and possibly add saving will be a "bad idea".

Jeez, adding another difficulty option will affect your life in zero ways. Show some solidarity to your fellow players who can't enjoy this campaign as much as you.

 

 

 

You don't have a single argument [...]

 

 

Do you read my previous post?

 

No?

 

Yes?

 

Maybe?

 

And after of that why do you think that I dont understant the others opinions?

 

I think you dont read my previous post where I explain my opinion with arguments...

Sorry, but I can't find any argument, like Variable and Varanon...

[Variable 322]

Forced respawn and no Save mechanism aside I have some more feedback.

 

1. There are no insertions or extractions, and I mean proper ones that have you actually dismount or board a vehicle. Why? It's not fitting a 2016 game. A nice extraction adds a lot to the experience and it's a form of a prize for a successful mission. A lot of community mission makers can pull it off, is it not within BIS capabilities to support that?

2. There's a long lasting bug that has the custom radio transmissions too low. This campaign has great voice acting, but it suffers from this bug. If it's totally quiet around you when the radio recording is playing it's ok, but if you are in a vehicle or there's a firefight, that's it, the radio can't be heard. I think I missed all of the ending radio correspondence due to this bug (and yes, I have "radio" turned all the way up).

[ruff 102]

I can see now what type of people BIS were trying to attract with this APEX protocol..... Mindless zombies.

Why did they have to release it in connection with the campaign? They first call it single player if you decide to play by yourself in dev and when they got crap responses they change it to solo to fix it....Marketing 'change it to solo'

You have a specific fan base for a reason and created a pretty good story with the campaign and wreck it here because if you don't like coop you play as John Rambo.

I don't know how long it took you to make this coop campaign but you should be shot if it took you more than 3 weeks to make with the money your getting.

[djotacon 190]

I can see now what type of people BIS were trying to attract with this APEX protocol..... Mindless zombies.

Why did they have to release it in connection with the campaign? They first call it single player if you decide to play by yourself in dev and when they got crap responses they change it to solo to fix it....Marketing 'change it to solo'

You have a specific fan base for a reason and created a pretty good story with the campaign and wreck it here because if you don't like coop you play as John Rambo.

I don't know how long it took you to make this coop campaign but you should be shot if it took you more than 3 weeks to make with the money your getting.

 

Why? because there's a CO-OP campaing with multiple respawn?

 

More than 3 years of support, updates, free content and now BIS is interested to get "mindless zombies" or "COD players"?

 

Yeah... sure.

 

 

You have a specific fan base for a reason

 

This includes: KOTH players, Wasteland players, Life players, CO-OP players, Clan players, Exile players and much, much more..

 

Why so much criticism for 5 scenarios based in a drop-in, drop-out gameplay?. There are a huge number of realistic scenarios out there, some are better other are worse. But I dont see that anyone creating such amount of posting.

 

I do not see the need to convert these scenarios in a realistic way. I like how they are righ now and given my reasons on this particular subject.

 

Unfortunately I think this thread will become a continuous sea of ​​complaints and requests until some people insulting and / or criticizing get what they want.

[Stalkermaster2015 60]

Because we paid money and you being ignorant hurts my brain. "Do it yourself" you say.

You know it's not like this is their first ever attempt at a Co Op Campaign. Their previous Co Op campaigns were way better as they supported fully Co Op and Singleplayer. Had this been their first ever attempt I would be more sympathetic as this would be mere feedback on what to do next time. But they have been doing this for a long time so they should know what people want and expect instead of dropping the ball.

Check the steam reviews, almost all the negative ones are about the disappointing campaign with even the positive ones mentioning it in the "cons" section of it. Sure a few people say they enjoy it but so far the negatives outweigh the positives.

It's clear you havnt been reading this discussion as two developers which one of them is a LEAD developer has specifically stated they out of the blue are taking a completely different approach which has sparked criticism but don't worry you enjoy it so any other criticsm is invalid if it involves casual or solo in the title. Are you gonna ignore that they themselves admit it?

[ruff 102]

Why? because there's a CO-OP campaing with multiple respawn?

 

More than 3 years of support, updates, free content and now BIS is interested to get "mindless zombies" or "COD players"?

 

Yeah... sure.

 

 

This includes: KOTH players, Wasteland players, Life players, CO-OP players, Clan players, Exile players and much, much more..

 

Why so much criticism for 5 scenarios based in a drop-in, drop-out gameplay?. There are a huge number of realistic scenarios out there, some are better other are worse. But I dont see that anyone creating such amount of posting.

 

I do not see the need to convert these scenarios in a realistic way. I like how they are righ now and given my reasons on this particular subject.

 

Unfortunately I think this thread will become a continuous sea of ​​complaints and requests until some people insulting and / or criticizing get what they want.

yup "MINDLESS ZOMBIES" cod is even a harder game than this campaign on easy!!!!! hahahaha keep going buddy!! 

next tag for arma 3 will be just "shooter" with no reference to tactical.

They ruin the campaign with this rubbish. Make us tactical throughout the whole series and then wham. "When you see the flash dont worry just respawn!"

keep liking the rubbish!! Please!!! lol

 

wait.... are you the guy that made the mod "ultimate soldier"???? hahHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

I rest my case and say what you want and not arguing anymore... im done.... dead hahaha. I know what you want from arma. And i cant wait for the new players "because" "of" "APEX protocol".

might as well take away fatigue, gun sway, oh what the hell take away recoil!!! lol 

[IndeedPete 1038]

 

This includes: KOTH players, Wasteland players, Life players, CO-OP players, Clan players, Exile players and much, much more..

 

Why so much criticism for 5 scenarios based in a drop-in, drop-out gameplay?. There are a huge number of realistic scenarios out there, some are better other are worse. But I dont see that anyone creating such amount of posting.

 

I do not see the need to convert these scenarios in a realistic way. I like how they are righ now and given my reasons on this particular subject.

 

Unfortunately I think this thread will become a continuous sea of ​​complaints and requests until some people insulting and / or criticizing get what they want.

 

The problem is that BIS campaigns were always there to showcase the game. To represent it in some way. Apex Protocol doesn't really do that in my opinion. Its seven scenarios play identically. Go to X and kill Y number of enemies to progress. I know, many games do that - but they're much better at hiding it. Apex Protocol doesn't even try to. "Clear the Island"-task anyone? Or these way too obvious failsafe mechanics. Need to destroy an enemy convoy? Don't worry, we'll just place a scripted demo charge at the bridge so no matter how stupid you act, you will still win the mission. Need to protect the other team for Miller's extraction? Don't worry, we'll just make them all invincible so you don't have to worry about failing that task. Fighting off CSAT to protect Miller in the end? Don't worry, we'll just make him captive and invincible, and add a respawn point directly next to him. Duh.

 

As for showcasing the new assets and features: new VTOLs with VIV system? Yeah, we're not going to use them. New LSVs? Ugh, let's just add this one tiny section where the player can drive one for 500 metres with nothing happening. That new BLUFOR helicopter drone? Nope, not gonna use it, mate! There was so much potential to create fun missions around these assets which remains completely unused.

 

CO-OP drop in / out? Yes, other games have it and while I personally don't care for it, other people might benefit, so why not? But other games allowing that like Far Cry 4 also have an autosave every time you go through a door or exit the game. No, Arma's implementation is having a permanent local server online while playing. Who thought adding this feature at the cost of abandoning the perfectly fine save system was a good idea? It's like buying a new 500 HP engine for a car that doesn't even have wheels yet. This trade-off doesn't make any sense to me.

 

For me, BIS campaigns were always done in a professional manner. Showing what the game was capable of while delivering a fun experience. It has nothing to do with being realistic. I would accept aliens vs. Go Karts if it's fun. But this is just very lazy and uninspired design. It gets even worse if you watch the launch trailer. I've said it in another thread already: what they're advertising is an entirely different game. You will not find most of these scripted scenes with fancy animations that are in the trailer in actual playable content. These design decisions around Apex just keep boggling my mind.

[NoPOW 59]

• Improved: All players have UAV Terminals in Apex Protocol mission by default now

Why? Just to circumvent the design flaw that every respawn resets the players accumulated gear? If so, that's plain lazy...

[IndeedPete 1038]

• Improved: All players have UAV Terminals in Apex Protocol mission by default now

Why? Just to circumvent the design flaw that every respawn resets the players accumulated gear? If so, that's plain lazy...

 

Or the design flaw that there were four NATO UAV terminals in a CSAT drone at one point so players could use them.^^

[NoPOW 59]

Or the design flaw that there were four NATO UAV terminals in a CSAT drone at one point so players could use them.^^

Whatever the case, the whole 'introducing new players to the game'-mantra is going to fail if those new players are unaware of the fact that they now have a terminal instead of a GPS in their inventory, and that both are not every soldier's default equipment...

[teabagginpeople 398]

It's clear when you play it. the aim of the campaign was to remove to a degree any real challenge. Hence the cannot fail approach.

The devs have it in their head any resistance to the changes they have made is just core arma players not wanting change. When in reality it's computer game players not impressed with the lack of innovation. Poor missions, unimaginative approach to the campaign and lack of a proper challenge.

I say this directly to the new lead developer. You say you purposely made this campaign to be more accessible to new players. We were all new players to arma. I can only speak for me. it was the fact the game was challenging that made me come back.. Because I'm a fan of games that are fun and challenging. I've not seen or heard anyone recommend a game because its dumb and easy.

Be careful going forward how easy you think you are making a game to pick up. Could also be making it easier to put down.

[IndeedPete 1038]

I don't think it's accessibility vs. difficulty per se. There are a lot of deep games with steep learning curves. It's just that the good ones have a decent tutorial, a good introduction to the mechanics - while gradually increasing the difficulty over time. I don't mind providing tutorial missions where the player cannot fail. (Like Arma 2 did for example.) It's just that Apex Protocol stays on this diffculty level and never evolves into a proper game.